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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> am i being too critical ...B&W
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02/27/2008 11:01:16 PM · #1
I just finished voting on the black and white challenge. And I dont think of myself as a low voter in general, but i feel that challenge was asking us to create a b&w shot even though it was in color, so that being said, for example yes animal shots are great but if they have yellow eyes you're not recrating a b&w shot. I feel like more than 1/3 to 1/2 shots that i voted on were like this. I dont know if it's just me but I put a lot of effort in to making sure there was absolutly no color showing in my shot I didnt submit shots that I felt were stronger than the one i used if there was any bit of color showing. If I went to such lengths for the creation of my shot I can justify a high vote for something that doesnt absolutely look like it was black and white. Am I wrong?
02/27/2008 11:12:16 PM · #2
Firstly, it's up to you how you vote.

Having said that I think a little bit of colour, like the eyes you use as an example, are ok as they illustrate the shot is a colout shot but the primary shot is B&W.

That's just my opionion though.
02/27/2008 11:17:42 PM · #3
Since you asked, I think that the challenge said to take a picture of B&W or grayscale subjects, not that there could be absolutely no color.

I guess I'd suggest that you consider how much the color really affects the shot, and whether it's a good or bad effect.

But ultimately, it's up to you how to interpret and vote.

In a broader sense, I'd also encourage you to set your own shot aside completely when voting. Consider the photos for themselves, not how you think they compare to yours. I've done the same thing you have: entered a weaker shot that I felt met the challenge better only to discover that my interpretation and choice wasn't followed by some much stronger entries. It's just part of the game.

Message edited by author 2008-02-28 00:13:44.
02/27/2008 11:25:54 PM · #4
I agree with you Nighttrain. What's the point of having set boundaries for a challenge, even to the point of additional DQ specifics, if you can just shoot any b&w subject? It defeats the point of the challenge imho. Any overt colour in what should be a black and white photo would be a DNMC if I was voting...but I've stopped voting for the time being until I can be more convinced than I am currently that I can vote without prejudice.

It's just not in keeping with the spirit or definition to include colours that aren't black/white/grey. Sure, someone will try and split hairs with me on this but you're wrong :P

N
02/27/2008 11:53:58 PM · #5
Not in this challenge, nor am I likely to vote. BUT I think both sides are right. This is an extremely difficult thing to judge, and I think we lose out when people don't vote according to their convictions. When I thought about what I might do to enter I had in mind totally black/white subjects with latitude for minimal colour casts, but no colour features. Actually I don't take voting that seriously, but I do take my understanding of the parameters of a challenge very seriously when I make a picture: it's an opportunity to learn within restrictions.
02/28/2008 12:06:44 AM · #6
I feel that you will have voters who take a literalist interpetation of the challenge description to those who have the challenge descriptions merely as a lax guildline where it doesn't really effect their voting. Everyone will interept things differently and all you can do is be consistant in your own voting practice. If you feel that no color is the correct way then vote that way and if you feel that a small amount of color is no big deal then vote that way. The great thing about voting is that the only thing that matters is your interpetation and your opinion.

edit for spelling

Message edited by author 2008-02-28 00:16:58.
02/28/2008 12:11:33 AM · #7
I personally dont vote in the challenges I enter. I dont want to be non-objective when voting if my photo is in the same competition. Does that make sense?

I will vote on the other open challenges instead. I think it makes me more fair.
02/28/2008 12:13:14 AM · #8
Originally posted by trevytrev:

The great thing about voting is that the only thing that matters is you interpetation and you opinion.


I agree with you, for the record. But since she asked, I told her my interpretation. I'll go back and edit to make that clearer.
02/28/2008 12:29:26 AM · #9
Yup. You're wrong. "Take a COLOR photo of a black & white (or gray scale) subject or subjects." It doesn't say make the photo black and white, but your SUBJECT(s)must be black and white. No one seems to understand this. And I'm about to get the coveted Brown Ribbon to show for it!

Originally posted by nlghttrain:

I just finished voting on the black and white challenge. And I dont think of myself as a low voter in general, but i feel that challenge was asking us to create a b&w shot even though it was in color, so that being said, for example yes animal shots are great but if they have yellow eyes you're not recrating a b&w shot. I feel like more than 1/3 to 1/2 shots that i voted on were like this. I dont know if it's just me but I put a lot of effort in to making sure there was absolutly no color showing in my shot I didnt submit shots that I felt were stronger than the one i used if there was any bit of color showing. If I went to such lengths for the creation of my shot I can justify a high vote for something that doesnt absolutely look like it was black and white. Am I wrong?


Message edited by author 2008-02-28 00:51:10.
02/28/2008 12:34:54 AM · #10
Why are we reinventing the wheel here? This challenge has been run before, and there were several entries with color in the top 10. Obviously, you CAN shoot a black and white subject without the entire image being grayscale.
02/28/2008 12:50:16 AM · #11
I did not enter this challenge, but it never occurred to me, reading the challenge description, that an image of a B/W subject against a colored BG was DNMC. In fact, I thought that was sort of the point, silly me... So I am AMAZED to see how many people have interpreted it as "make your picture look like a B/W image even though it actually is a color image."

Challenge descriptions are funny things. I'm not gonna vote on this one, I am prejudiced against it, I feel like everyone sort of missed the boat and I don't wanna ding the whole world because they don't agree with me, see?

And of course the odd thing is, this is the EXACT opposite of what the OP is saying :-)

R.
02/28/2008 07:18:32 AM · #12
I have mixed feelings on this. What's the point in shooting in color if it looks black and white anyway? Some strategically placed streak of color, I thought, would provide not only good contrast but would impress (or convince) the viewer that the grayscale subject was shot in full color.

That said, I went through great efforts to make my entry look as black and white as possible. This was a learning experience for me. I'm discovering that an image that looks fully grayscale at first glance, but is really shot in color with no desaturation, has a certain punch to it that you can't get shooting or converting to black and white. Does that make sense?

And as a result of what seems to be mutual mixed feelings, my score has been all over the place and the comments mixed.
02/28/2008 07:32:56 AM · #13
I agree with many of the comments above. It's not much of a "challenge" if a photo of a beautiful butterfly landing on a black twig is quite acceptable for this challenge. I felt that the fun in this one was to engineer the B&W effect by lighting, subject and mood. On the other hand, some of the entries having some small elements of colour are good shots.
Let the voter decide.

GC
02/28/2008 07:36:05 AM · #14
Originally posted by scalvert:

Why are we reinventing the wheel here? This challenge has been run before, and there were several entries with color in the top 10. ...

Hmmm. Perhaps voters aren't so influenced by prior challenges as once thought (i.e. - looking up older photos). :-D Then again, it seems that fairly recent threads on the topic aren't in the mix either?
02/28/2008 07:56:56 AM · #15
Originally posted by scalvert:

Why are we reinventing the wheel here? This challenge has been run before, and there were several entries with color in the top 10. Obviously, you CAN shoot a black and white subject without the entire image being grayscale.


An interesting way to look at this is that I count 3 shots in the top 20 that have some color in them in the last challenge but I also count 13 shots in the bottom 20 from the last challenge that have some color in them?.....You can fool some of the voters some of the time but you can't...............you get what I mean.

Vote as you like but to me why not try and challenge yourself when you enter these challenges it is obvious to me what the intent of this challenge is so why not just try and give it a go, thats what it is all about. It's written in B/W for all of us to see.
02/28/2008 07:59:16 AM · #16
Actually the first challenge I did that and I was told my image was DNMC. Many comments saying that.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/529/120/368468.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/529/120/368468.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

I did not enter this challenge, but it never occurred to me, reading the challenge description, that an image of a B/W subject against a colored BG was DNMC. In fact, I thought that was sort of the point, silly me... So I am AMAZED to see how many people have interpreted it as "make your picture look like a B/W image even though it actually is a color image."

Challenge descriptions are funny things. I'm not gonna vote on this one, I am prejudiced against it, I feel like everyone sort of missed the boat and I don't wanna ding the whole world because they don't agree with me, see?

And of course the odd thing is, this is the EXACT opposite of what the OP is saying :-)

R.
02/28/2008 08:06:09 AM · #17
China, this image is a wonderful example of a black and white subject that is a major portion of the image. If your chips had been the size of bottle caps, taking up only a scant 5% of each square, I'd have DNMC it too, but as it is, not DNMC in my opinion.
02/28/2008 08:16:04 AM · #18
i agree this is no DNMC

the whole point is that the subject is to be B&W the background could be anything although i could be wrong lol
ok off to bed

hoo roo
02/28/2008 08:26:32 AM · #19
Originally posted by Ter:

... the whole point is that the subject is to be B&W the background could be anything although i could be wrong lol
ok off to bed ...

From the challenge description: "Conversion/desaturation to black and white or shooting in black and white is NOT allowed."

Doesn't it make you wonder why the description is so specific on this point?

Also, under the Extra Rules in place: "...shooting in or post-processing to black/white will result in DQ."

Seems to me the spirit of this challenge is to create what looks like a B/W photo but shoot it in color. JMO of course, and no, I don't have a horse in this race.
02/28/2008 09:17:05 AM · #20
Originally posted by keegbow:

An interesting way to look at this is that I count 3 shots in the top 20 that have some color in them in the last challenge but I also count 13 shots in the bottom 20 from the last challenge that have some color in them?.....You can fool some of the voters some of the time but you can't...............you get what I mean.

In the last run of this topic I count 3 shots with very obvious color in them (all within the top 10) and at least 8 more within the top 20 that are certainly not pure grayscale. To suggest that voters seeing bright yellow eyes or a peek of sunset were fooled into thinking those were B&W is an insult to their intelligence.
02/28/2008 09:21:05 AM · #21
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Seems to me the spirit of this challenge is to create what looks like a B/W photo but shoot it in color.

The challenge is, "Take a COLOR photo of a black & white (or gray scale) subject or subjects." It doesn't say anything about the area surrounding those subjects or that the subject must be completely B&W (a penguin is still a B&W subject even if it has a blue tag on its wing). The extra rule is in effect to keep people from converting color subjects to B&W.
02/28/2008 09:28:28 AM · #22
Originally posted by nlghttrain:

I dont know if it's just me but I put a lot of effort in to making sure there was absolutly no color showing in my shot I didnt submit shots that I felt were stronger than the one i used if there was any bit of color showing.


I completely agree with you. I was actually pretty angry when i saw that a good amount of pictures had color. I will be very upset if any of the ribbons have color in them.
02/28/2008 09:29:07 AM · #23
Looks like I wasted my money on buying that 2m length of black velvet to cover my background ;)
I guess it'll come in handy in the future.
02/28/2008 09:34:57 AM · #24
I wonder if the Color on Color entrants are wringing their hands if there's a bit of black or white in their scene? "Hey, I see somethjng that's not color! DNMC!" :-/
02/28/2008 09:38:20 AM · #25
I made you up a new siggy Scalvert.

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