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03/03/2004 01:41:18 PM · #51
Originally posted by muckpond:

Originally posted by peecee:

we have children looking at images on this site !


And those children have parents that should be monitoring what they are viewing. Any contact with art that may not be deemed acceptable to the parent is the parents' responsbility.

Sorry. I'm tired of people screaming "will somebody please think of the children!" about everything that could possibly offend them. It was not my decision to have children, so it should not be my responsibility to watch over them.

This is a site that is supposed to encourage artistic expression, and each person gets to express it in their own way. It's got a conservative enough flair without trying to put limits in place to avoid possibly offending everyone's sensibilities.

Sheesh.


::claps:: Well said! My kids usually are not around when I look at the site, if I know there could be something not "kid safe". If I happen to look at it and see something, I change the page until the kids are off and playing again.
03/03/2004 02:37:09 PM · #52
Originally posted by peecee:

Originally posted by faidoi:

I think that a lot of the newer or younger photographers want to shock the rest of us. Definitely a way to get comments.


I totally agree, many have great ability, seems a pity they are obsessed with the sad side of life, pills, blood, bullets etc.
I mark em low every time.
Perhaps when they have more experience of life they will understand our points of view too.
Paul.


Aren't we suppose to mark them on the technical, not the personal? Just because someone take a photo of a subject I may not like, it does not mean it deserves a low score. Unless it is technically incorrect or not on subject.
I hope they don't understand your point of view. We all need to see the whole picture of life. Good & bad.
03/03/2004 02:39:11 PM · #53
Originally posted by Olympian:

As someone who has experienced two people close to me who have attempted suicide, I really don't want to experience that emotion again! I mark em as a 1, if there were a 0, that's what they would get from me. When I see photos like this, I think that these people must feel in some way suicidal. And that is really sad! If I mark them as low as I can, maybe they will attempt a photo that will get a better score.

LOL like you have that much influence on a photographer!
03/03/2004 02:41:58 PM · #54
Originally posted by muckpond:

Originally posted by peecee:

we have children looking at images on this site !


And those children have parents that should be monitoring what they are viewing. Any contact with art that may not be deemed acceptable to the parent is the parents' responsbility.

Sorry. I'm tired of people screaming "will somebody please think of the children!" about everything that could possibly offend them. It was not my decision to have children, so it should not be my responsibility to watch over them.

This is a site that is supposed to encourage artistic expression, and each person gets to express it in their own way. It's got a conservative enough flair without trying to put limits in place to avoid possibly offending everyone's sensibilities.

Sheesh.


Touche!
03/03/2004 02:49:45 PM · #55
Originally posted by nosher:

Originally posted by Olympian:

As someone who has experienced two people close to me who have attempted suicide, I really don't want to experience that emotion again! I mark em as a 1, if there were a 0, that's what they would get from me. When I see photos like this, I think that these people must feel in some way suicidal. And that is really sad! If I mark them as low as I can, maybe they will attempt a photo that will get a better score.

LOL like you have that much influence on a photographer!


oh yes, his low score and my low score and somebody else's low score, they all add up, you know!

Message edited by author 2004-03-03 14:51:21.
03/03/2004 02:55:49 PM · #56
Originally posted by nosher:

Aren't we suppose to mark them on the technical, not the personal?

You are only "supposed" to vote "fairly" on all the photos (i.e. not try to manipulate the results). But what constitutes a "good" or "bad" photo is left up to each voter.

BTW: I have a kid who's actually a registered member, and have no problem with people posting whatever their artistic vision dictates. I've already signed a waiver that says any issue regarding "inappropriate" images is solely a matter for Isaac and myself.
03/03/2004 03:22:42 PM · #57
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by nosher:

Aren't we suppose to mark them on the technical, not the personal?

But what constitutes a "good" or "bad" photo is left up to each voter.



I think the placings of these "artistic" pictures speaks for itself.
I for one will vote them down everytime, and by the looks of it I am not on my own..
03/03/2004 03:37:21 PM · #58
Originally posted by peecee:

I think the placings of these "artistic" pictures speaks for itself.
I for one will vote them down everytime, and by the looks of it I am not on my own..

I'm not expressing any opinion at all on the photos, merely on the rights and responsibilities of a voter. I completely support your right to give these low votes if that's what you think they deserve.
03/03/2004 03:38:48 PM · #59
I retitled this thread to fix what I "assumed" was a typo ....
03/03/2004 03:44:01 PM · #60
I dont vote on 'taste', I vote on the photograph.

I can well understand some people finding certain subjects very distressing and disturbing.

However I belive it is quite wrong to vote it down because of this, if you feel very strongly then better not to vote on it at all.


03/03/2004 03:47:40 PM · #61
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Interesting, but possibly disturing to some; an exploration of a real issue for our times, by an ER doctor and old friend of mine.

Photos from A Chosen Death: The Dying Confront Assisted Suicide by Lonny Shavelson.


a beautiful story.....thanks for posting.
03/03/2004 04:03:07 PM · #62
Interesting this should come up. I did a suicide pic for the Point of View challenge. ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/177/54974.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/177/54974.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
I'm not suicidal at all but I felt that suicide was a very personal and awful moment in a person's life and that it's very touchy and scary but it shouldn't be hidden. it happens, we have to realize that.
Now I don't think that little kids need to be exposed to this all the time but they should realize i t exists. I don't see how there's a big hoopla about suicide photos when there are contests where nudity is prevelent as well.
Just my two cents :D
03/03/2004 04:13:13 PM · #63
I would have expected that by now, on page 2 of the thread, the discussion would have gone somewhere, but...

If the foot doesn't fit the shoe, perhaps a different pair of shoes would be in order. Let those who want to cut off a foot, restrict this practice to their own limbs.

When I look at a picture, any picture, the first thing I ask of it is: is the world richer for it? Does it contribute something, anything, and if so, how much? Am I moved, transported, educated by it, and to what degree?

On matters of taste:

Life, in its paradoxical ways, does not provide shoe boxes with 'good' and 'bad' labels on them. Last time I looked at a mountain or a bird, I learnt something, I was awed, I laughed or cried or I was preoccupied sorting shoe boxes, learning and feeling nothing.

Sure, taste is a subjective thing. But the fact that it is subjective to everyone should make it a little easier to come to a sense of it. Can we not look at a thing or picture from differing angles. Can we not learn or be moved by it without having to find it pretty or appropiate?

Taste is one thing, but there are bigger things. To someone having lost limb or kin, taste is bitter. To someone removed from such tragedy, taste is dictated by circumstance, not by aesthetic considerations outside of it.

Disgust, repulsion etc. are secondary feelings. Joy, grief and sorrow are the real players.


03/03/2004 04:36:28 PM · #64
bah. this is reality, suck it up.
03/03/2004 04:47:55 PM · #65
I bet you don't vote for presidents either? You really think that your vote counts in the presidential election? Damn right it does!

Originally posted by nosher:

Originally posted by Olympian:

As someone who has experienced two people close to me who have attempted suicide, I really don't want to experience that emotion again! I mark em as a 1, if there were a 0, that's what they would get from me. When I see photos like this, I think that these people must feel in some way suicidal. And that is really sad! If I mark them as low as I can, maybe they will attempt a photo that will get a better score.

LOL like you have that much influence on a photographer!
03/03/2004 06:11:33 PM · #66
zeus is onto it. why, just because it is an image of something you don't like, would you just give it a 1. I don't like lobster, almost everyone else does, not gonna deny that to others, because of me. This would be your great chance to stop, look a little longer and try to see what is trying to be conveyed. To see someone elses viewpoint on a subject. See something you have never seen or thought about before. I work as an ER RN, so the images don't bother me, and I can see (cause I see it every night) where these people are coming from, and why they do this at times. I don't like it (because I usually don't understand how someone can get that far down the road to suicide, and not be recognized) but have to deal with it.
I think that just looking at the image a few seconds isn't too fair. Would you do this in a gallery or museum. Get in a golf cart and just drive by at 20 mph and give opinions and ratings on art. Let's do the "Crossing the street safety dance" here on DPC. Stop, look, and listen!
03/04/2004 01:21:16 AM · #67
I think this thread has done a good job of discussing the topic, obviously some people have different opinions, but in general it has been an enlightening discussion for me. Ignoring the few belligerent, and otherwise argumentative statements.

I do however have a problem with the age thing. This should have nothing to do with age. I may be 18, and only entering the cusp of adulthood, but I can safely say that I as an individual have dealt with suicide closely more times then many 50 year old would care for. No, I myself am not suicidal, but I believe that in order to preserve this as a photography website we can't fairly disclude pictures simply because they deal with something that is as disturbing as suicide. No, I don't believe any lines should be drawn in terms of content (other then the obvious ones that must be in place to be in accordance to content laws and regulations and so on). If such lines were to be drawn, where does the line drawing stop? How can you put boundaries on creativity?

Thirdly, if you don't want your kids too see the pictures, then well gosh darnit don't let them see the pictures! Don't expect us to change our art, and change the message we wish to convey, because you don't want to step up and take control of the situation.

Lee
03/04/2004 01:57:28 AM · #68
I say bring on the murder scenes maybe soon enough they will be real the more real ones the less submissions you'll eventually have to view!
03/04/2004 02:57:34 AM · #69
i could see a cat or a sunset commiting suicide getting a 10 here. :)
03/04/2004 05:04:38 AM · #70
Originally posted by Olympian:

As someone who has experienced two people close to me who have attempted suicide, I really don't want to experience that emotion again! I mark em as a 1, if there were a 0, that's what they would get from me. When I see photos like this, I think that these people must feel in some way suicidal. And that is really sad! If I mark them as low as I can, maybe they will attempt a photo that will get a better score.


You mark them 1 or 0 and you think they are attemting suicide!

Do not you think: YOU PERSONALLY KILL THEM WITH A LOW SCORE!

Do not be very worried now - i will not kill my self (or voters) for being ignorant. And i am old enough to understand what is the world like. Bigger problem is, when you are pretty old (in your mind or age) and you will die thinking that you was always right to underestimate other people cause they were different.
03/04/2004 05:38:37 AM · #71
Originally posted by kinks:



and you will die thinking that you was always right to underestimate other people cause they were different.


Suicide and self-harm is abhorrent to any normal person, and so is the portrayal of it.
Who's to say they won't put the idea in someones head who is mentally disturbed?
They are not different they are sick! what pleasure do they get out of it?
anyway, they keep posting and I will keep giving them 1s,
Paul.
03/04/2004 10:36:04 AM · #72
Originally posted by peecee:


Suicide and self-harm is abhorrent to any normal person, and so is the portrayal of it.


I think that very sane people have created suicide shots. (Well, some people will argue that I am sane lol) But I have done some shots like that. I don't think about killing myself.... I did a picture just last night for a challenge, and I depicted suicide.... more like the Romeo and Juliet type of thing. I don't think if tastefully done, there is a problem.

This post has become rediculous. We have everyone griping about scoring low for moral reasons or whatever. I for one, am going to continue to post what I feel in my heart and mind fits the challenge as I see fit. So go ahead and think I am disturbed, I am crazy or that tomorrow, I am going to kill myself. But you know what.... I really don't care. I know how I feel. My photography is mine, it's my outlet, it's my poetry. If you want to vote low because you find it wrong... then so be it. I'm going to make myself happy before I please anyone else.

The last thing I have to say, is YES people are going to continue posting shots like these.... YES people are going to continue scoring these pieces low (No matter how beautiful and well composed the shot is).

JUST EVERYBODY DEAL WITH IT!
03/04/2004 10:38:11 AM · #73
Originally posted by peecee:


Suicide and self-harm is abhorrent to any normal person, and so is the portrayal of it.
Who's to say they won't put the idea in someones head who is mentally disturbed?
They are not different they are sick! what pleasure do they get out of it?
anyway, they keep posting and I will keep giving them 1s,
Paul.


I couldn't fit this in my other post:

You don't just one day say... "Hey, I'm gonna commit suicide.." It brews and brews. If someone is mentally disturbed.. 9 chances out of 10, they have already thought it!
03/04/2004 11:19:59 AM · #74
I think I agree with goinskiing.
It worries me that there may be people out there who do these photos as a cry for help.
It worries me somewhat if someone does one simply for effect or to shock.
And all in all - is this really the place to be displaying them anyway?
Personally I enjoy DP Challenge immensely and use it to relax. I am genuinely upset when I see these images (the one that springs to mind was one in the last challenge where someone was slashing their wrists) and I cease to enjoy the site when that image is displayed and I'm asked to pass judgement on it (are we supposed to worry about what will happen to the artist if we give them bad marks?).
Don't get me wrong, I am not easily offended at all and have dealt with all these issues before. I'm also for freedom of expression - I'm just not sure if DPchallenge is the place for that sort of image.
03/04/2004 11:53:52 AM · #75
Originally posted by kinks:

Originally posted by Olympian:

As someone who has experienced two people close to me who have attempted suicide, I really don't want to experience that emotion again! I mark em as a 1, if there were a 0, that's what they would get from me. When I see photos like this, I think that these people must feel in some way suicidal. And that is really sad! If I mark them as low as I can, maybe they will attempt a photo that will get a better score.


You mark them 1 or 0 and you think they are attemting suicide!

Do not you think: YOU PERSONALLY KILL THEM WITH A LOW SCORE!

Do not be very worried now - i will not kill my self (or voters) for being ignorant. And i am old enough to understand what is the world like. Bigger problem is, when you are pretty old (in your mind or age) and you will die thinking that you was always right to underestimate other people cause they were different.


I can't quite understand what you are trying to say to me.

Are you asking me if I think that if I gave them a 1 or 0 that THAT would be a cause for them to commit suicide?

If that happens then my point is already made. I certainly wouldn't want that to happen, but am I suppose to give this person a 10 because I worry about their state of mind? It upsets me to think about it and I will vote what I think it deserves. I won't simply pass it by, I won't just ignore it. I want my votes to count on this site. I want to participate and help make changes.

And then, what,,,,you are calling me ignorant or the voters and yourself ignorant? and me old? LOL I don't even get what you are trying to say in your second paragraph. Please try again to explain.
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