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DPChallenge Forums >> Business of Photography >> bah...i just wanna take pictures...
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02/22/2008 10:51:48 PM · #1
so ive been working with a friend of mine, hes an up and coming singer and needed some shots for his website and such. he came to me and i had no problem shooting with him, deal was i would have something to put in my portfolio and he would have some good shots and recommend me to some of his friends. i did this free of charge (opps.).

now hes asking for the files, apparently he wasnt happy enough with just the edits (jpg, low enough res to look bad if printed but good enough to go online), so now hes asking for everything, even the .psd files. apparently he has a graphic designer that he wants to ad logos and such to. this whole thing is make me extremely uncomfortable, for a ton of reasons. mostly cuz i dont know who this 'graphic designer' is, i have a suspecion that its just one of his friends who knows a little bit about photoshop....

so yeah, what do i do? should i feel this weird about it? argh this whole situation went from a favor to a weird passive-confrentation...

-cw
02/22/2008 11:00:14 PM · #2
Originally posted by chris48083:

so ive been working with a friend of mine, hes an up and coming singer and needed some shots for his website and such. he came to me and i had no problem shooting with him, deal was i would have something to put in my portfolio and he would have some good shots and recommend me to some of his friends. i did this free of charge (opps.).

now hes asking for the files, apparently he wasnt happy enough with just the edits (jpg, low enough res to look bad if printed but good enough to go online), so now hes asking for everything, even the .psd files. apparently he has a graphic designer that he wants to ad logos and such to. this whole thing is make me extremely uncomfortable, for a ton of reasons. mostly cuz i dont know who this 'graphic designer' is, i have a suspecion that its just one of his friends who knows a little bit about photoshop....

so yeah, what do i do? should i feel this weird about it? argh this whole situation went from a favor to a weird passive-confrentation...

"oops they've been deleted! My bad.... but really , they are your shots and you are not obligated to give them up.

-cw
02/22/2008 11:42:54 PM · #3
did you get a release from him when you started this project?
02/22/2008 11:58:54 PM · #4
Originally posted by JulietNN:

did you get a release from him when you started this project?


yes of course.

but i would like to keep the relationship healthy...
02/23/2008 12:02:46 AM · #5
Just be sure that you get a "by-line" when they use the shots, and get that on paper/signed. That way, at least they will have use of the shots, as per the original agreement, and you will be getting some exposure if the artist takes off. Just keep in mind that the music biz operates on fertilizer from bulls if you know what I mean.
I was in it for 15 years before getting married.
02/23/2008 12:12:29 AM · #6
Yeppers, what he said but in a girlie English accent!
02/23/2008 12:17:18 AM · #7
Originally posted by JulietNN:

Yeppers, what he said but in a girlie English accent!


so much sweeter with a girlie English accent.

thanks for the advice
02/23/2008 12:24:37 AM · #8
dude, you shoudnt be saying that to older women, they might get flustered!!!!!!!!!!!!
02/23/2008 04:17:04 AM · #9
You had an agreement to provide some shots for free. You've done that. If he wants the raw files for "his friend" to work on then that's another story. He's clearly doing it to make money, you deserve to be paid or credited. Which is really up to you, and depends on if you want your work to be associated with whatever style the artist puts onto your shots. I probably wouldn't, so I'd just sell them off for a small fee and move on.
02/23/2008 05:41:23 AM · #10
You are under no obligation whatsoever to give these files to him.

Explain that they are available for sale, but that your agreement, espcially for free, in no way entitles him to have someone gain possesion of YOUR work.

You could draw up an agreement that states that he cannot publish anything without your review.....make him sign it and get it notarized.

Explain that you own copyright of the images and that you were doing him a favor, not giving up your images on his whim.

If he wants to use these images as you've described, have him give you a couple grand, and if he balks, remind him of what you originally agreed to do for him.

The fact that this makes you uncomfortable means that you should listen to your instincts.

If he gets all pissy about it, you'll have a much better grasp on his view of your relationship, won't you?
02/23/2008 06:00:32 AM · #11
How about you talking to the mysterious third man?
02/23/2008 08:20:53 AM · #12
Originally posted by chris48083:

........... shots for his website and such...................

Does the "and such" mean this other logo stuff?

How much is the relationship worth to you? Would you sell it for $50, $100, $200, $400, $800, $8,000 ???

I think I would need at least $250,000 to lose an average friend of mine. That's when I'd start to allow for life-improvement for my family versus having that friend. Some friends would go for more, some would go for less. I should probably make a list with amounts. I'd expect them to do the same to me.

Message edited by author 2008-02-23 08:27:20.
02/23/2008 09:51:17 AM · #13
Originally posted by chris48083:

........... shots for his website and such...................

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Does the "and such" mean this other logo stuff?

How much is the relationship worth to you? Would you sell it for $50, $100, $200, $400, $800, $8,000 ???

I think I would need at least $250,000 to lose an average friend of mine. That's when I'd start to allow for life-improvement for my family versus having that friend. Some friends would go for more, some would go for less. I should probably make a list with amounts. I'd expect them to do the same to me.

I think this is an erroneous analogy.

He did what his friend asked, and now the friend wants to take it and run.

Pricing out friendships is a worthless endeavor.

You know perfectly well that you have friends that are obsessed with money and friends that aren't.

Some you can be involved with in money matters, some you can't.

Your personal relationship doesn't necessarily cross over.

For this guy to decide that he needs the original files to give to someone else crosses a line......on NO level does "and such" qualify to just up and give them to him.

As stated, he doesn't even know the other guy, and there's really no reason to get involved with someone who is essentially asking for them without so much as indicating that he respects the license of the work.

If he is a legitimate graphic designer, he knows better, and if he is trying to get them for free without so much as contacting the owner, well......that says something, IMO.

There's really no reason why the OP couldn't process and turn the work into ads if he wants to, and for money.

Message edited by author 2008-02-23 09:54:16.
02/23/2008 10:03:14 AM · #14
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

..............You know perfectly well that you have friends that are obsessed with money and friends that aren't..............

Ha, that's true, and funny now that I think of it (reflecting on my friends who prefer not to pay on separate bills so I end up paying most of the bill and all of the tip. But there are more who will grab the bill and insist on paying it all.). I guess I'd be the friend that isn't obsessed with money in amounts that aren't life changing. Still, my erroneous analogy holds in my case, personally. For myself, I mean. :-)

I suppose I just don't value my photography, or feel as self-important about it as some others.

Message edited by author 2008-02-23 10:07:02.
02/23/2008 10:10:25 AM · #15
Originally posted by mist:

You had an agreement to provide some shots for free. You've done that. If he wants the raw files for "his friend" to work on then that's another story. He's clearly doing it to make money, you deserve to be paid or credited. Which is really up to you, and depends on if you want your work to be associated with whatever style the artist puts onto your shots. I probably wouldn't, so I'd just sell them off for a small fee and move on.


That sounds like what I would do also...
02/23/2008 12:08:49 PM · #16
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

If he is a legitimate graphic designer, he knows better, and if he is trying to get them for free without so much as contacting the owner, well......that says something, IMO.


I'll add my voice there a bit. As a carpenter, I often get people wanting to borrow tools. People who don't have their own tools, don't know how to use them. It's not unlikely that they don't respect the need to give them back double quick either.

That may or may not be a useful parallel to draw, but I'd take Jeb's point. If this mysterious graphic designer or whatever is asking your chum to obtain things from you for nothing then he/she is issuing some serious sarcasm and should be treated accordingly. Your friend may be ignorant of what we all seem to take for granted (rights to our work). You need to know if this shadowy figure is causing this communication problem between you. FWIW, don't assume it, but try and find the body and talk.
02/23/2008 12:19:36 PM · #17
Thanks for the advice guys, we had a meeting yesterday and i told him that him asking for my .psd files is like me asking for his recording session files and he quickly understood, but still tried to get them, i told him that if he really has a designer then there needs to be a direct relationship between me and that person.

i just dont understand why he wouldnt come to me with doing the graphic work. im not a 'graphic designer' but i know my way around photoshop, the way he described it to me is that he just wanted his name and some text put into the image, that seems simple enough.

'and such' is things like album covers/artwork and myspace.

as far as the value of our relationship, hes a friend from class, i dont drink beer with him on the weekends. but he works with alot of people who would like shots and it would profossionally tacky to blow this one over, and i think he knows that and is playing a game by it (which im not fond of). ive already found some other clients and such, so maybe ill just this slide and move on.
02/23/2008 06:02:15 PM · #18
So far, I vote for Jeb's post in this thread.
02/25/2008 12:12:18 PM · #19
You say up and coming singer... what does that mean? Is this person actually making it or is it their pipe dream?

If it just some person who plays local gigs and open mic night, who cares just give up the files and be done with it. DOn't waste your time and energy on this, the chances that this person makes it big is slim to none.

Just hand them over with a useage agreement. Just because someone else is going to mess with them doesn't mean that you don't retain rights of ownership. Photographers for music mags used to just hand over rolls of film, but they still were credited for the photograph.

02/25/2008 01:15:29 PM · #20
just give it to them. Friends do things like that for each other. Have a handshake agreement that when he makes it big you'll be more then taken care of for your efforts.
02/25/2008 02:22:37 PM · #21
Originally posted by LoudDog:

just give it to them. Friends do things like that for each other. Have a handshake agreement that when he makes it big you'll be more then taken care of for your efforts.


Wow, Daryl and I agree on something. That doesn't happen every day.

From the thread title, you 'just wanna take pictures' if so - then what's the problem ? Give him print resolution versions of them.

If not, then what did you agree to do ? shoot some shots and give him versions that weren't big enough to use other than for his myspace page ? Or just agreed to take some pictures for him - it doesn't seem too unreasonable of him to want to be able to use them after you took 'em. I'd give him the shots and chalk it up to experience. See what you can learn from it for the next time.

Message edited by author 2008-02-25 14:23:26.
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