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02/21/2008 08:42:47 AM · #26
Originally posted by Tycho:

The editorial control over the comments would be a step in the right direction but not nearly enough. We should be given control over the scores our photographs get as well. That is, we should be able to delete the votes we find offensive. I, for one, feel so insulted when an entry of mine scores below 6.50 that I have a nervous breakdown and start foaming at the mouth. Needless to say that my models, even though they are generally not of the Homo sapiens species, have feelings too and get equally (and righfully) upset when they hear the bad news. Moreover, in the hypothetical case that someone entertains the idea of hiring me as a photographer, what if they visit my DPC portfolio, see bunch of below 6.50 scores, get cold feet and give up on that idea! I'd miss a great opportunity to make a truckload of money just because some DPC voters are not capable of appreciating my grand artistry and craftsmanship. No, that is not acceptable. If Langdon doesn't want to have his butt dragged to court for causing not only material loss but also extreme distress and emotional harm, he should give us total control over the votes as well as over the comments our photographs receive.

Woah! For a minute I thought this was a serious post. Then I read this part of it (emphasized above as well): "We should be given control over the scores our photographs get as well."

Good one! :-D
02/21/2008 10:02:24 AM · #27
Yeh, I know, I'll be putting some alcohol in the fire with this post.
But I wonder how many people (voting option 1. in the running poll) don't care about RIGHTS to assist their work, or maybe they have nothing worth to care about.
02/21/2008 10:09:16 AM · #28
Originally posted by De Sousa:

Yeh, I know, I'll be putting some alcohol in the fire with this post.
But I wonder how many people (voting option 1. in the running poll) don't care about RIGHTS to assist their work, or maybe they have nothing worth to care about.


Jorge, I think you are doing a fine job trying to get your point across - and it is a valid point.

I wonder whether it is simply being overlooked because the majority of people use the site for recreation, and are jsut taking a more laid back view on it. Understandably people that make money from their work will see the issue in a potentially different light.
02/21/2008 10:10:15 AM · #29
Having just voted, I notice that Option 1 is currently in the lead. I wonder how much of that is just a knee-jerk reaction to the ongoing thread storm (or whatever it's called)? After all, the option about having the SC pay a little more heed to the wishes of a photographer asking for a comment removal (Option 3) is gently worded and unlikely to result in an increase of requests or more work for the SC. It's pretty much "leave it as it is" anyway.

EDIT: Perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm saying the option to have SC pay a little more attention is a good one (hardly controversial) and I think it would get more support if people gave it a bit more thought.

Message edited by author 2008-02-21 11:29:07.
02/21/2008 10:12:35 AM · #30
Originally posted by Jedusi:

Originally posted by De Sousa:

Yeh, I know, I'll be putting some alcohol in the fire with this post.
But I wonder how many people (voting option 1. in the running poll) don't care about RIGHTS to assist their work, or maybe they have nothing worth to care about.


Jorge, I think you are doing a fine job trying to get your point across - and it is a valid point.

I wonder whether it is simply being overlooked because the majority of people use the site for recreation, and are jsut taking a more laid back view on it. Understandably people that make money from their work will see the issue in a potentially different light.

Kind of like the watermarking discussion in discouraging image theft - bottom line on that one ended up basically being "if you don't want it stolen, don't put it on the internet".
02/21/2008 10:15:25 AM · #31
Originally posted by citymars:

... is gently worded ...

And how would you have worded it?
02/21/2008 10:17:00 AM · #32
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by citymars:

... is gently worded ...

And how would you have worded it?

? I would have worded it exactly as worded. What makes you think I'm complaining about it? Must be the general tone of things this week.
02/21/2008 10:27:21 AM · #33
Originally posted by citymars:

... What makes you think I'm complaining about it? Must be the general tone of things this week.

Sigh. You're right. My bad. Apologies extended.
02/21/2008 10:37:57 AM · #34
Originally posted by De Sousa:

Yeh, I know, I'll be putting some alcohol in the fire with this post.
But I wonder how many people (voting option 1. in the running poll) don't care about RIGHTS to assist their work, or maybe they have nothing worth to care about.


I also wonder how many people (voting option 2) are for total censorship and suppression of other views differing from their own, or just don't care what others think. We can wonder all day long on how many people have thought out their vote and how many just clicked a button, or we can accept that others may have many reasons different than ours for having opposite opinions.
02/21/2008 10:51:09 AM · #35
Originally posted by Jedusi:

Originally posted by De Sousa:

Yeh, I know, I'll be putting some alcohol in the fire with this post.
But I wonder how many people (voting option 1. in the running poll) don't care about RIGHTS to assist their work, or maybe they have nothing worth to care about.


Jorge, I think you are doing a fine job trying to get your point across - and it is a valid point.

I wonder whether it is simply being overlooked because the majority of people use the site for recreation, and are jsut taking a more laid back view on it. Understandably people that make money from their work will see the issue in a potentially different light.

I think you touch the point. People "taking a more laid back view on it" shouldn't have the power over the photographer's work when leaving a "3 seconds" comment on photographs. It's why the best photographers go away. It's sad, but it's what happen when you don't protect them against things as simple like an "unwanted comment".

02/21/2008 10:55:26 AM · #36
I would like to point out that there are a couple of SC members who eat stats for breakfast and just for fun, even.

There are those of use (me!) who took stats in college because she had to. :)

My point? Even with my limited knowledge, I know that adding up the two options for change vs the one option for remaining the same and the fourth option of a little of each gives a truer picture.

In the past, when a poll has indicated that change was indeed wanted by a majority of the site (even if it was spread across three or four choices), options for change were then evaluated.
02/21/2008 11:04:15 AM · #37
Holey Moley ... Breathe in through the nose and out through the mouth ... slowly ... about twenty times ... THEN post.

IMO this is the greatest amateur and professional support group website on the planet! ... sheesh and sheesh again ... I think some medication or meditation is needed here ...

I, personally think that the SC is an incredible group of people trying to help others find their path to really really cool photography, no matter their equipment budget.

PLEASE try not to light torches and back them against the wall for every damn decision made as if they have created a Frankenstein.

PLEASE.

What an incredible venue this is to share expertise and hints and tips and I personally think it is the absolutely most sharing to novices as well as professional on the Internet.

I, as an amateur, cannot imagine that there is anyplace in the Internet world that has such supportive hints and tips for novice photographers ...

'nuf said ... I hope I don't get flamed for this post ...
02/21/2008 11:23:03 AM · #38
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by citymars:

... What makes you think I'm complaining about it? Must be the general tone of things this week.

Sigh. You're right. My bad. Apologies extended.

No biggee. My point was rather muddled, so I share the blame.
I'm glad we have a free and open forum, but after this week I'm sure most of us will be glad to put the focus back on taking and sharing photos. :-)
02/21/2008 11:25:20 AM · #39
Even if you lump together 2, 3, and 4 it is still in favor of option 1 by 324 votes /220 votes
02/21/2008 11:57:54 AM · #40
I don't mind the commenting system as it is, but I'd like to have more choices other than "this comment was helpful". Such as

comment read / comment helpful / comment not helpful

or

photographer agrees / photographer disagrees

I like to acknowledge people taking the time to leave a comment but I don't always agree with what was written. And when I don't agree, I'll leave a comment about it within my own photo, as I know many others do too.
02/21/2008 12:20:45 PM · #41
What I find very interesting about the poll is, even given that a clear majority have voted for "no change", should change happen, the majority will continue to comment as they always have. It appears from this poll that the major reservation people have for not wanting change, that commenting will suffer, is unfounded.
02/21/2008 12:24:39 PM · #42
Originally posted by Louis:

...should change happen, the majority will continue to comment as they always have. It appears from this poll that the major reservation people have for not wanting change, that commenting will suffer, is unfounded.

44% say they would comment less, and you think that commenting wouldn't suffer?
02/21/2008 12:24:49 PM · #43
Originally posted by Louis:

What I find very interesting about the poll is, even given that a clear majority have voted for "no change", should change happen, the majority will continue to comment as they always have. It appears from this poll that the major reservation people have for not wanting change, that commenting will suffer, is unfounded.


From what I read the major reservation wasn't that people will comment differently, but that good constructive comments will disappear. The poll doesn't disprove that assumption.
edit sp

Message edited by author 2008-02-21 12:25:46.
02/21/2008 12:28:29 PM · #44
Right, and right. At least I'm glad to see that most commenting habits wouldn't change irrespective of the outcome.

Edit, what's ALSO interesting is that a similar percentage of people voting for change (ie not voting for option 1) also indicated that their commenting style would stay the same.

Message edited by author 2008-02-21 12:33:41.
02/21/2008 12:38:23 PM · #45
Statistics are a slippery business.

02/21/2008 12:39:50 PM · #46
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by Louis:

...should change happen, the majority will continue to comment as they always have. It appears from this poll that the major reservation people have for not wanting change, that commenting will suffer, is unfounded.

44% say they would comment less, and you think that commenting wouldn't suffer?


Dunno - do those 12 who are going to comment more, comment more often than the ones who say they are going to comment less ? Do the ones who say they are going to comment less, comment much anyway, or contribute more or less to the corpus of pointless/ silly/ off topic comments ?

Who knows ?
02/21/2008 12:46:28 PM · #47
Originally posted by Louis:

What I find very interesting about the poll is, even given that a clear majority have voted for "no change", should change happen, the majority will continue to comment as they always have. It appears from this poll that the major reservation people have for not wanting change, that commenting will suffer, is unfounded.

I thought you didn't care about majorities? :-)
02/21/2008 12:52:39 PM · #48
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by Louis:

What I find very interesting about the poll is, even given that a clear majority have voted for "no change", should change happen, the majority will continue to comment as they always have. It appears from this poll that the major reservation people have for not wanting change, that commenting will suffer, is unfounded.

I thought you didn't care about majorities? :-)

Did I say that? I'm not sure I do, and I'm not sure I don't but I don't remember saying either way.
02/21/2008 12:54:15 PM · #49
Originally posted by glad2badad:


I thought you didn't care about majorities? :-)

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."
- Winston Churchill
02/21/2008 01:11:08 PM · #50
Originally posted by alexgarcia:

Originally posted by Azrifel:

I'm getting friggin tired and haven't felt a desire to comment or vote for a long time now and all this stupid delete talk is increasing that feeling even more.

Sometimes it looks like DPC has become a group hug site where everyone only wants positive comments and with a lot of sucking toes going on.


Agree with Az. It seems to me that is a bit boring to see this aspect again and again.
Can you please direct me to some of that comments you would like to delete? I can asume that some people is more rude than other, and that some people hasn't got english as the first language, so some expresions can sound more rude than intended.
I receive comments I both like and dislike. Or agree or disagree. But if I upload to a photographic web a photo I know someone can say something I don't like to listen, but then I can choose if I want to keep posting to that website.
Please understand me, I'm not saying you can leave an insulting comment, I'm talking about critiques. For example, a comment as "I don't like this image at all" for me wouldn't be quite helpful (doesn't help me to improve), it's an opinion that I can desagree, but I can assume somebody else doesn't like my shot at all.

Álex.


Please do NOT interpretor this as stirring the pot...PLEASE...
I offer this up for to make a point ONLY...

The point of the whole set of discussions were comments that were considered "offensive" or in your word "insulting"
The argument was made that the procedure in place currently would be to contact the SC and they would act on the "merits" of the comment and if they found (collectively?) that the comment was indeed offensive or harmful that they would gladly remove it ... If it did not rise to the level of being offensive then the comment stays...WITHOUT regard to the wishes or sensibilities of the photographer. (If my understanding is incorrect please feel free to correct me )

Fair enough...

Here is where that fails

You have a image of Semana Santa in your gallery (very cool image IMHO but lets put that aside for a second)
You receive a comment That reads

This image I find hate filled why would you post these clansmen ... you should be ashamed.

NOTE THIS IS NOT MY PERSONAL OPINION

You take serious offense to that statement and do not want it associated with that image.
As per policy you contact the person that made the comment and graciously ask that they remove or restate that comment ... their response in PM is "pound sand you hate monger"

The commenter is obviously wrong ... you go to the SC ...

They determine that the comment is the commenter's valid opinion on the image and lets it stand.

Your option ... delete and repost the image to get rid of the comment.

Not a cool situation.

This is where a photographer controlled delete button would come into play.

See the difference between that and a harsh critique
ETA:
This whole issue has been made to be about critique. That has never been the true basis of the conversation.



Message edited by author 2008-02-21 13:15:01.
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