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03/01/2004 11:05:20 AM · #1
hi

Message edited by author 2004-03-02 13:05:10.
03/01/2004 12:00:03 PM · #2
Originally posted by pitsaman:

Forbes

Check all the Wal Mart gang, folks are working hard for 8$ an hour for them to collect billions !


Whats wrong with that? I don't believe in redistribution of wealth! Just because someone was smarter, harder working or even born into money doesn't mean I should get a piece of it because I work for them or HELP/AID them make those millions...
03/01/2004 12:08:28 PM · #3
Lotsa Waltons but I don't see Johnboy anywhere. Guess he was just to honest to get rich, LOL.
03/01/2004 12:11:55 PM · #4
hi

Message edited by author 2004-03-02 13:05:29.
03/01/2004 12:17:35 PM · #5
Originally posted by Russell2566:

I don't believe in redistribution of wealth!


Is that really what you meant to say? Did you mean to say that you don't believe in free enterprise capitalism? The system we practise here in the US is a mechanism for redistributing all wealth upwards toward the most wealthy. More likely you meant to say that you don't believe in redistribution of wealth in the opposite direction.
03/01/2004 12:30:38 PM · #6
Well maybe my own belief in what "redistribution of wealth" is, is incorrect.

I view redistribution of wealth as being the equivilent of something like higher taxes in order to give more of my money to someone who didn't earn it or something more extreme like socialism or the far left liberal view in America (which is basically socialism anyway)...

To specifically point out say a walmart employee. The guy working the counter, by his/her-self, does not perform a task that makes the company a enough of a quantifiable amount of money to pay him $35 an hour. Also, that person's job can be performed by almost anyone. How much you pay someone is almost like supply and demand for pricing goods.

I'm a software engineer and I own my own business. I provide a quantifiable service that may make a company hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars, there-for it is easy for a company to justify a higher salary base or contract price for my services.

The owner of a MCD's makes tons of money, yet he had to front the million dollar francise fee and have the brains to get a good location! Do you honestly think we should pay johnny drop-out 18 bucks an hour to spit in your burger cause the owner is pulling in 250,000 a year? I think not!

I might not be putting into text my thoughts very good, but my original comment was mostly just a lash out at a common "hate those who make more money" attitude that just sickens me. If your pissed because someone else makes more money than you, do something about it and work harder or get a good idea. I'm not very smart, but my hard work has made up for many of my failures... Hard work is not something we teach our young ones anymore! We set them up from an early age to be failures and to only be able to work for someone else.

As far as pitsaman is concearned. Maybe I'm not so narrow minded, but instead your too much of a f-ing idiot to explain to me why I'm wrong... See I can be just as rude as you!

Message edited by author 2004-03-01 14:17:00.
03/01/2004 12:34:10 PM · #7
If my daddy bought me cameras and motorcycles,I would be confused too !
03/01/2004 12:37:38 PM · #8
I didnít understand corporate welfare until it happened to me .so this is what it means I get paid so poorly after working two jobs (60 hrs. a week) that I cant afford health insurance or enough food to feed my family so I turn to my government for food stamps and medicade while corporations get tax breaks for hiring me. I work hard all my life and six months from retirement my company moves my job to china (average pay $33.00 a week) so people can the same product at wal-mart for a third of the cost. If you donít believe me wait till it happens to you.
03/01/2004 12:37:54 PM · #9
I'm going to digress from the redistribution of wealth for a sec. I wanted to comment on your Subject- "I don't see any photographers" Pitsaman, it's up to you! I will give you the task of going and spying on each of these billionaires and take some inconspicuous photos and then blackmail them for a billion each. Then you could have 10 billion dollars. If you are feeling very adventerous just get photos of all of those on the list. Then we can finally have a photographer on the list!
03/01/2004 12:39:31 PM · #10
if someone didnt do that $8.00 and hour job - there would not be a walmart - the salary they are paid is distributing the wealth to them - not too many people work for free...

if someone isn't happy with the salary they are given, they can quit and try to get a better one.

even if you do a great job cleaning that toilet there is someone that will do it cheaper, and as well or better than you...

you could always pay twice as much for an item as you do now in order for the company to be able to pay higher wages to low skilled workers.

wealth is not just money, be happy with what you have.

03/01/2004 12:40:56 PM · #11
I have to agree with Russell! And I grew up in a blue collar family - my dad never made more than $20K a year whilst I was growing up, and our own income for a family of 4 is very little more than that. Despite that, we aren't sitting on the public dole, we own a nice home and have very little debt. Why? Because we've worked hard not to squander what little we do have, and have managed to build it in to something that very few folks do. We don't throw $50-$200 per month away on cable TV, monthly cell phone bills, etc. There are lots of things that we do without, but we appreciate and enjoy some of the finer things - more homecooked meals, less fast food few expensive dinners out. But I can tell you now, I don't envy those who make more money - nor do I begrudge them what THEY HAVE RIGHTLY EARNED! If you're not happy with your own income, then do something about it. If you've got the talent and initiative, you can do great things. If not, you have no right to denegrate the success of others.
03/01/2004 12:43:22 PM · #12
Originally posted by soup:

if someone didnt do that $8.00 and hour job - there would not be a walmart - the salary they are paid is distributing the wealth to them - not too many people work for free...

if someone isn't happy with the salary they are given, they can quit and try to get a better one.

even if you do a great job cleaning that toilet there is someone that will do it cheaper, and as well or better than you...

you could always pay twice as much for an item as you do now in order for the company to be able to pay higher wages to low skilled workers.

wealth is not just money, be happy with what you have.


What is the option there?
Wal Mart burried K-Mart,Venture,Value City,May and many others,they are ultimate players there , no competition,no other place to work for all those 1.5 million hard working people!What are you talking about?
03/01/2004 12:45:31 PM · #13
Russell- How many employees do you have working for your business? Does your company give them adequate health insurance benefits? or do you depend on the taxpayers to take care of that as Wal Mart does?
03/01/2004 12:46:37 PM · #14
Feel free to discuss your opinions, but no more name calling, or profanity. that is simply not needed.
03/01/2004 12:47:18 PM · #15
it's the end of the great american republic (cat's and dog's speeping with each other
03/01/2004 12:49:41 PM · #16
Originally posted by pitsaman:

...But your brain is so narrow, you will never get that anyway...


speaking about narrow brains...
03/01/2004 12:49:41 PM · #17
Originally posted by pitsaman:

That has nothing to do with redistribution of wealth,just fairnes in compensating the people who help you to get wealthy!
But your brain is so narrow, you will never get that anyway and we will be argueing here forever!


While I agree the fairness in compenstion appears to be unknown to those who have achieved the executive levels of capitalism, I have yet to receive my rebate from any professional athlete or T.V./Radio/Motion Picture/Music star.
The way the many millionaires/billionaires make millions/billions is to make a little bit of money from a lot of people. And the way to do that is to charge the maximum that ( enough ) customers will pay, and to pay the minimum that suppliers/employees will accept. Namely, don't charge less than you can, and don't pay more than you have to.
What would YOU do if you had 40 qualified applicants for 10 jobs, and 8 of those applicants were willing to work for 40% less than the other 32. Would you figure out the "fair" wage and pay some people MORE than they were willing to work for ( therby reducing your own portion of the profit )?
The "unfairness" in compensation problem will not end until people stop supporting it, but that would require those desperate for jobs to hold out for FAIR compensation - which isn't going to happen - Wal-mart can hold out a lot longer.

Ron
03/01/2004 12:57:48 PM · #18
Originally posted by coolhar:

Russell- How many employees do you have working for your business? Does your company give them adequate health insurance benefits? or do you depend on the taxpayers to take care of that as Wal Mart does?


For one of my businesses I have 5 part time employees, I pay them well, but I cannot afford to pay for their health insurance.

For software development, I do not hire employees, but instead I hire people I use to work with at older companies and I hire them on a contract bases (1099). Pay is uaualy $90-$150 an hour for each of these contractors and I do not pay for their health insurence or into any retirment fund for them.

I've been paying for my own health insurence for the last 3 years (yes it's too expensive).

When I was younger my parents were very poor (i didn't know any better then anyway). When I was in my mid teens one of my father's business finally took off and we started to make good money. We still couldn't afford to send me to college though.

I moved out at 17 and with hard work I MADE my self... I now think I make pretty decent money, although I always have my goals set much higher. I have zero debt and I'm very happy with where I am. I pay for all of my business ventures and investments with cash and I always go in, willing to accept a total loss... I've won and I've lost, most people are not capable of doing the above.

I would venture to say that 99% of high school graduates leave with almost zero life skills no-adays. I know about the only thing I learned in HS was how to deal with people, a good skills, but not a good reason to go to school!

Message edited by author 2004-03-01 13:00:59.
03/01/2004 01:02:19 PM · #19
Originally posted by Russell2566:

How much you pay someone is almost like supply and demand for pricing goods.

I'm a software engineer and I own my own business. I provide a quantifiable service that may make a company hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars, there-for it is easy for a company to justify a higher salary base or contract price for my services.

The problem is without forcing the company to pay a living wage to the workers, there is no valid supply/demand equation at work -- in an economy where a large underclass is maintained and unions are forbidden or undermined, all of the leverage in the situation goes to the employer. The current system has created a system where there are so many people living on the margin that the Wal-Marts will always find people so desperate for any job that they'd cross a picket line, if Wal-Mart allowed a union.

You say their work isn't quantifiable. As a software engineer (presumably with math training) you know that's BS. What you mean is that, as a fraction of the owner's share, any individual's share is infintesimimal ... and that's the shame of the situation. Someone feels they can't afford to live on "only $2 billion" dollars instead of $3 billion, yet that might make the difference in several thousand kids getting health care and enough to eat this year.

The rich class has deliberately subverted the programs in place for the last 60 years or so which were designed to create a strong middle-class, because they know that their own class can only continue to exist with a substantial underclass and an ineffectual middle-class who aspire to be rich but are a down-sizing away from dropping into poverty.

If all the Wal-Mart checkers simply shut down their terminals, how much would those CEO salaries be worth? I don't think management can work the registers fast enough to pay their own salaries.

You can call it "socialism" if you want try and be defamatory, but it seems to me that those who have, giving generously to the less fortunate, is the cornerstone of all this Judeo-Christian tradition everyone's always propounding as the be-all to end-all of moral conduct. Capitalism is a system based on inciting innovation with the promise of fantastic remuneration -- kind of like hitting the patent lottery -- and is clearly based on greed as a motivating factor. The Bible (Timothy II) says that "the love of money is the root of all evil."

I'm waiting for someone to explain why it does not logically follow that, to any true Judeo-Christian, Capitalism is not the tool of the Devil; a complete corrpution of our moral values masquerading as "free trade." Actually, despite the actions of the oil emirs, I believe Mohammedism already holds to this doctrine; I know they don't believe in charging interest, the backbone of the idle class's ability to acumulate wealth without working. Perhaps the hypocrisy of promoting Capitalism while claiming to be a country founded on Christian values is one of the reasons we're so frequently ridiculed if not reviled.

Message edited by author 2004-03-01 13:04:03.
03/01/2004 01:14:57 PM · #20
Originally posted by Russell2566:

Well maybe my own belief in what "redistribution of wealth" is, is incorrect.

I view redistribution of wealth as being the equivilent of something like higher taxes in order to give more of my money to someone who didn't earn it or something more extreme like socialism or the far left liberal view in America (which is basically socialism anyway)...

To specifically point out say a walmart employee. The guy working the counter, by his/her-self, does not perform a task that makes the company a enough of a quantifiable amount of money to pay him $35 an hour. Also, that person's job can be performed by almost anyone. How much you pay someone is almost like supply and demand for pricing goods.

I'm a software engineer and I own my own business. I provide a quantifiable service that may make a company hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars, there-for it is easy for a company to justify a higher salary base or contract price for my services.

The owner of a MCD's makes tons of money, yet he had to front the million dollar francise fee and have the brains to get a good location! Do you honestly think we should pay johnny drop-out 18 bucks an hour to spit in your burger cause the owner is pulling in 250,000 a year? I think not!

I might not be putting into text my thoughts very good, but my original comment was mostly just a lash out at a common "hate those who make more money" attitude that just sickens me. If your pissed because someone else makes more money than you, do something about it and work harder or get a good idea. I'm not very smart, but my hard work has made up for many of my failures... Hard work is not something we teach our young ones anymore! We set them up from an early age to be failures and to only be able to work for someone else.

As far as pitsaman is concearned. Maybe I'm not so narrow minded, but instead your too much of a fucking idiot to explain to me why I'm wrong... See I can be just as rude as you!


I agree with everything you just said. I've been on both ends: the owner making the Bling, and the dude behind the cash register, I know who deserves what. What I find aggravating is alot of people look at someone with wealth who is getting on in life, who can finally relax and enjoy their money, without seeing the decades of hard, nail pounding work that went into getting to that point. Being the cashier or waitress is back breaking work as well but you can't compare that to being a CEO or president [a legit one] when you look at their levels of responsibility.

[I don't know pitsaman, but the narrow minded comment came out of left-field, have you two argued on another thread or something?]

Message edited by author 2004-03-01 13:16:32.
03/01/2004 01:16:22 PM · #21
Amen GeneralE !

I admire people like W Gates,where Microsoft employees enjoy American dream and I don't care how many billions he have,God will give him much more!

Message edited by author 2004-03-01 13:16:47.
03/01/2004 01:27:04 PM · #22
Originally posted by GeneralE:

The rich class has deliberately subverted the programs in place for the last 60 years or so which were designed to create a strong middle-class, because they know that their own class can only continue to exist with a substantial underclass and an ineffectual middle-class who aspire to be rich but are a down-sizing away from dropping into poverty.


General......

Please forgive my foray into politics and specifically Democrats vs. Republicans, however a study conducted after the recent Gore/Bush election, concluded that Democratic voters tend to be both the very very wealthy and those with limited funds who rely on government programs. Republican voters tend to be those whose are self supporting and/or trying to acquire the next level of independence, typically categorized as an entrepeneuer/small business owner. Obviously there are multitudes of exceptions to these poll findings, as anytime percentage numbers are between 40-60%, it means that there are a whole lot of folks that the poll conclusion doesn't apply to.

That said, I found it odd, that the very wealthy, who require a sub-class for their existence, vote similarily to the sub-class they subjegate. They support similar programs/institutions/handouts. The have's and have not's are of the same party. The abused vote with the abusers. Don't understand it myself......but as a libertarian, I just want everyone out of my business.

Flash

The dems v reps is about ideology not money. Individual vs. group responsibility. Because some wealthy folks also proclaim to be Republicans, the conclusion is that all wealthy folks are Republicans. This is certainly not so. An overwhelming majority of this countries wealthiest, are registered, straight party voting Democrats.

Message edited by author 2004-03-01 13:38:11.
03/01/2004 01:27:10 PM · #23
In response to the title, how do you know the Waltons aren't photographers of some sort?
03/01/2004 01:27:49 PM · #24
And here's another thread that's going to run and run. :-)
03/01/2004 01:29:53 PM · #25
Originally posted by PaulMdx:

And here's another thread that's going to run and run. :-)

LOL, it is all my fault again,but I usually throw a bone to the dogs and run,not this time!
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