Ever shot in black and white? - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

06/09/2002 01:42:11 PM · #1

I wonder how many of us here have ever shot black and white film before? It also seems there is a lack of knowledge by some on how to properly adjust the tonal range of an image. Do all of you know about histograms? Do all of us know how to use levels instead of brightness/contrast?

If anyone is interested, "An Ansel Adams Guide: Basic Techniques of Photography" has helped me out quite a bit. It does not discuss digital, but is still very usefull.

* This message has been edited by the author on 6/9/2002 1:44:55 PM.

* This message has been edited by the author on 6/9/2002 1:45:47 PM.

* This message has been edited by the author on 6/9/2002 7:07:57 PM.

irae

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 I

06/09/2002 02:01:59 PM · #2

Personally, I think the range of "proper" tonal ranges is pretty broad, but I agree that there are some pretty unsuccessful choices (or non-choices) out there this week. Those aside, I think that there are a surprisingly high number of really good pics.

Jonniboy

Nikon D1

06/09/2002 02:07:36 PM · #3

Originally posted by Zeissman:
I wonder how many of us here have ever shot black and white film before?

About twice - and that was back in the film days! I'm actually really pleased with the image I put in (and it's not doing _too_ badly) - without this challenge I wouldn't have bothered doing a B&W shot.

KarenB

Canon EOS-70D

06/09/2002 02:21:05 PM · #4

I love doing black and white when I feel there is good texture, or if I want to make a timeless impression. I have a few portraits on my web site (link below). The two girls together in 3 of the portraits are film b&w, the others are digital converts (ha! sounds like a religious choice!). Anyway. I worked at an area hospital doing electron micrographs for 10 years - all b&w, so the darkrooms were already set up for that. When I wanted to do my own, I just purchased T-Max B&W film and used the darkroom there! I have to say I much prefer my digital darkroom to the real darkroom. After spending 8-10 hours per day, every day for as much as 5 month clips doing publication prints for my boss, I began to feel like I might as well evolve into a bat-like being! :-)

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6G

06/09/2002 02:26:32 PM · #5

Zeismann....Guy...have you looked around where you are at.

This is DP Challenge. Not "Photographer" magazine.

What I mean is if this is a site aimed at
1) Digital photography
2) Fairly new people to either Digital Photography or new people to photography in general.

I cannot count how many rolls of black and white film I have shot over my many years of misadventures...guess what? So what....

It's not that I don't think folks have lots of knowledge to share..It's that I hope we..all of us..can go on this learning adventure TOGETHER... and not let our respective histories ( especially in film) act as a special ticket to the elite pack.

tlalonde

Nikon D3200

06/09/2002 03:07:29 PM · #6

OK, so i did find this info in a Zone Technique Page. I didn''t know if it was easily found on the web. This is what we use in the graphics industry when calculating the density of a photo that will be printed.

The theory here is that your black should be in the range of .15 and white should be in the range of .85 to be pleasing to the human eye. If you like higher contrast, adjust to .11 and 1.18. Any further contrasting will be unecessary, as the eye cannot perceive it.

* This message has been edited by the author on 6/9/2002 3:52:25 PM.

* This message has been edited by the author on 6/9/2002 3:54:42 PM.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6G

06/09/2002 03:12:18 PM · #7

Conceptgraphics..thats pretty good information..thanks

I disagree with one thing...I do like absolute blacks and blown-out whites at times :-) It all depends on how they are used.

tlalonde

Nikon D3200

06/09/2002 03:18:25 PM · #8

Originally posted by hokie:
Conceptgraphics..thats pretty good information..thanks

I disagree with one thing...I do like absolute blacks and blown-out whites at times :-) It all depends on how they are used.

I will admit there is a place for what the human eye PERCEIVES to be absolute white. However, there is almost always a slight tone in a white area. I'll see if I can dig up some samples.

06/09/2002 04:07:07 PM · #9

Originally posted by conceptgraphics:

I will admit there is a place for what the human eye PERCEIVES to be absolute white. However, there is almost always a slight tone in a white area. I'll see if I can dig up some samples.

I am not sure if I mean absolute white..I was referring more to the blown out aspect..I am sure you can blow out more than just white.

I guess I fall into the "no rules" kind of thinking. Not that that is THE way..just my preference :-)

Patella

06/09/2002 04:32:59 PM · #10

In traditional chemical print processes, about the only time you'd use a truly pure white is in a flare of light -- like a really bright reflection of light off chrome. However, that pure white is entirely subjective depending on the kind of paper you use. Some papers are a pure white color, and some aren't. It's a lot like monitor calibration, actually. Maybe that's why I sometimes find it frustrating to give and receive certain comments, I'm printing on one "paper" that's a pure white while someone else is printing on another that's much warmer so we're all seeing it differently.

To my mind, that's highly frustrating because people aren't seeing the art the way I intended it to be seen. Ah well, until we can figure out a way to "force" proper monitor calibrations and then to make sure all hardware performs exactly the same....

06/09/2002 04:57:20 PM · #11

hokie and all,

I was not trying to insult anyone, I was trying to open a dialog on some techniques I thougt may improve some pictures.

Since this week is "black and white" I thought that I would ask about what peoples background in black and white was.

It seems like a lot of people here have an interest in black and white, and shooting some black and white film, and comparing it to digital black and white shots may help them improve.

I was just trying to share what little I have picked up over the years.

As far as this site being aimed at people new to photogrpahy, I do not understand where you get that. From the look of most of these photos, there are a lot of people with a lot of expirience here.

Originally posted by hokie:
Zeismann....Guy...have you looked around where you are at.

This is DP Challenge. Not "Photographer" magazine.

What I mean is if this is a site aimed at
1) Digital photography
2) Fairly new people to either Digital Photography or new people to photography in general.

I cannot count how many rolls of black and white film I have shot over my many years of misadventures...guess what? So what....

It''s not that I don''t think folks have lots of knowledge to share..It''s that I hope we..all of us..can go on this learning adventure TOGETHER... and not let our respective histories ( especially in film) act as a special ticket to the elite pack.

* This message has been edited by the author on 6/9/2002 5:02:42 PM.

06/09/2002 05:04:37 PM · #12

Have you tried any of the C41 process black and white films like Ilford XP or TMAX CN? They can be processed at one hour labs.

Originally posted by Karen Bryan:
I love doing black and white when I feel there is good texture, or if I want to make a timeless impression. I have a few portraits on my web site (link below). The two girls together in 3 of the portraits are film b&w, the others are digital converts (ha! sounds like a religious choice!). Anyway. I worked at an area hospital doing electron micrographs for 10 years - all b&w, so the darkrooms were already set up for that. When I wanted to do my own, I just purchased T-Max B&W film and used the darkroom there! I have to say I much prefer my digital darkroom to the real darkroom. After spending 8-10 hours per day, every day for as much as 5 month clips doing publication prints for my boss, I began to feel like I might as well evolve into a bat-like being! :-)

06/09/2002 05:14:43 PM · #13

Originally posted by Zeissman:
hokie and all,

I was not trying to insult anyone, I was trying to open a dialog on some techniques I thougt may improve some pictures.

No problem....I didn't mean to come off heavy handed. I was going to edit my post to reflect a more encouraging response but I got a phone call and forgot :-)

Anyway, I agree with your what I think is your point in that shooting more in black and white and studying the technique would open up a world of possibilities beyond simply meeting the occasional dp challenge.

Black and white study can improve color photography by honing your eye for contrast and detail, etc...

Sorry again..when I reread my post I said..thats not what I was aiming for... What I mean't is theat DP challenge seems designed directly for the very new folks to digital photography and what may seem like elementary to experienced photographers is all new to many here. Even I haven't shot film seriously in several years and I am relearning a lot of basic stuff all over again. :-)

Links are very cool and we might even need to start developing a links section here to point folks to the endless amounts of photographic knowlegde and artist on the net.

Amphian

Nikon Coolpix 880

06/09/2002 05:24:11 PM · #14

Originally posted by Zeissman:
As far as this site being aimed at people new to photogrpahy, I do not understand where you get that. From the look of most of these photos, there are a lot of people with a lot of expirience here.

I think it varies tremendously. I've seen profiles where people state they've been using film for a decade or more and they make their living (or part of it) through photography.

Then there are people like me. I've never bought a camera. My pre-2001 photography experience consisted of about 100 snapshots a year shot with either the point and shoot I got as a kid (using 126 cartridges) or the freebie I got from my credit card company. I won my digital camera about 18 months ago and discovered that I could actually take good pictures. Even though I don't think those early pictures are very good any more, it was enough to get me interested in improving my skills. This site has been pretty useful in that regard, by forcing me to try new things.

chariot

Olympus C-3030Z

06/09/2002 05:51:01 PM · #15

If you are looking for people that have or have not shot in Black and White before, I would be one of the have nots. I have never shot film other then the family point and shoot cameras. I'm going to be taking a course in photography at the local community college and that will be all black and white. I'm really looking forward to it cause I would really like to learn all the nuances of photography.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

06/09/2002 06:00:22 PM · #16

I shot almost all black and white for about 10 years, and I in the last few years I started using color. Most of my black and white work was outdoor portraits. I have recieved some great tips on how to improve my indoor shots thruogh this competition, and I think they will work just as well with color.

Digital has also opend up a wide world to me. I have been very impressed by the quality that is attainable in black and white, and color. Now if I can just figure out how they do it!

Originally posted by Amphian:
Originally posted by Zeissman:
[i]As far as this site being aimed at people new to photogrpahy, I do not understand where you get that. From the look of most of these photos, there are a lot of people with a lot of expirience here.

I think it varies tremendously. I've seen profiles where people state they've been using film for a decade or more and they make their living (or part of it) through photography.

Then there are people like me. I've never bought a camera. My pre-2001 photography experience consisted of about 100 snapshots a year shot with either the point and shoot I got as a kid (using 126 cartridges) or the freebie I got from my credit card company. I won my digital camera about 18 months ago and discovered that I could actually take good pictures. Even though I don't think those early pictures are very good any more, it was enough to get me interested in improving my skills. This site has been pretty useful in that regard, by forcing me to try new things.
[/i]

Truazn637

Nikon Coolpix 5000

06/09/2002 06:05:03 PM · #17

I shoot in b&w (digital) lots of time. I'm no pro, but my b&w shots always tend to lack darkness, or lightness. But that's what photoshop is FOR =D. If you are unsure how to adjust levels, just use the auto levels option. But for me I do it manually...and all I really do is make the dark darker and light lighter =D. I guess...that's what you are suppose to do. :o sorry just ramblin....ah well.

Truazn637

Nikon Coolpix 5000

06/09/2002 06:05:51 PM · #18

oh yea even color shots should be auto leveled. It usually makes things better....sometimes not though. Once in awhile everything will be just PERFECT. =D

karmat

Apple iPhone 7

06/09/2002 06:09:42 PM · #19

Originally posted by Zeissman:
I wonder how many of us here have ever shot black and white film before? It also seems there is a lack of knowledge on how to properly adjust the tonal range of an image. Do all of you know about histograms? Do all of us know how to use levels instead of brightness/contrast?

1. No, I've never shot in bnw before (only color with a point and shoot, and rarely successful at that).
2. What the heck is tonal range?
3. There's a histogram dropdown on my post-processing program. Found it this week. Don't have a clue.
4. Just learning to use brightness/contrast. Don't want to warp my feeble mind trying to use "levels" at this point.

When I take a good picture, it's 85% luck, 10% husband's advice, and 5% skill. I'm here to learn. That's all.

KarenB

Canon EOS-70D

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

06/09/2002 06:26:02 PM · #20

Originally posted by Zeissman:
Have you tried any of the C41 process black and white films like Ilford XP or TMAX CN? They can be processed at one hour labs.

Originally posted by Karen Bryan:
[i]I love doing black and white when I feel there is good texture, or if I want to make a timeless impression. I have a few portraits on my web site (link below). The two girls together in 3 of the portraits are film b&w, the others are digital converts (ha! sounds like a religious choice!). Anyway. I worked at an area hospital doing electron micrographs for 10 years - all b&w, so the darkrooms were already set up for that. When I wanted to do my own, I just purchased T-Max B&W film and used the darkroom there! I have to say I much prefer my digital darkroom to the real darkroom. After spending 8-10 hours per day, every day for as much as 5 month clips doing publication prints for my boss, I began to feel like I might as well evolve into a bat-like being! :-)

[/i]

No, Zeiss. I haven't used C-41 personally. How do you think your film b&w's compare to the digi b&w's?

06/09/2002 06:52:08 PM · #21

The ones that will win this competition far surpass what I have done on film. Digital can definitely compete with film. It is really what is done with the image that counts. That was why I was making the suggestion about reading. Taking the pic is just the first step.

I think I know a good photo when I see it, but that does not mean I can produce it myself. The portrait of "ron" //www.photosig.com/viewphoto.php?id=87640 is pretty good, but I still have a way to go. I just learned a photoshop trick this week that I did not know. I am also scanning in some of my old negatives to see if I can improve the image.

Originally posted by Karen Bryan:
Originally posted by Zeissman:
[i]Have you tried any of the C41 process black and white films like Ilford XP or TMAX CN? They can be processed at one hour labs.

Originally posted by Karen Bryan:
[i]I love doing black and white when I feel there is good texture, or if I want to make a timeless impression. I have a few portraits on my web site (link below). The two girls together in 3 of the portraits are film b&w, the others are digital converts (ha! sounds like a religious choice!). Anyway. I worked at an area hospital doing electron micrographs for 10 years - all b&w, so the darkrooms were already set up for that. When I wanted to do my own, I just purchased T-Max B&W film and used the darkroom there! I have to say I much prefer my digital darkroom to the real darkroom. After spending 8-10 hours per day, every day for as much as 5 month clips doing publication prints for my boss, I began to feel like I might as well evolve into a bat-like being! :-)

[/i]

No, Zeiss. I haven''t used C-41 personally. How do you think your film b&w''s compare to the digi b&w''s?

[/i]

* This message has been edited by the author on 6/9/2002 7:06:23 PM.