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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Which autofocus system is better? Canon or Nikon?
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 02/02/2008 09:37:28 AM · #1
I gotta tell ya, I'm am thoroughly unimpressed with Canon's system on the two cameras' I've used (350D and 40D). Focusing in the dark is a joke and even in good light conditions, I find myself turning autofocus off because it's unreliable. I hear Nikon has more focus points, does that make it better? Because honestly, it'd almost be worth switching teams over.
 02/02/2008 09:55:04 AM · #2
Whether the AF works well or not is more to do with the lens used than with the camera body.

The 40D has an AF assist light (not sure about the 350D) but you have to enable it from the menu.
 02/02/2008 10:00:47 AM · #3
Everything is subjective - as cpanaioti pointed out it's VERY much to do with the glass you're using.
When I started out I had a Canon 20D and a sigma 70-300mm and even in light it just hunted forever and I was thinking " What the heck is going on here !! "
Then I tried the Canon 135mm F2 L and everything snapped into focus in literally the blink of an eye.
I was blown away ! Even in low light / darkness it'll still focus fast enough.
My own preference is to set the focal point to the center dot and I've never had any problems.
As for canon focus systems themselves, after reading mixed reviews on the Mark III's focal system I took one out for a test drive and it locked onto anything moving, static, light, dark, even moving fire dancers with a precision that can only be described as " perfect "
A shame since this camera got a lot of bad press and made canon focus systems the butt of many recent jokes !!
Which lense were you using ? The Kit-lense ? ( 18-55 )
 02/02/2008 10:06:39 AM · #4
.. also, the 50 1.8 is not a USM lens so the AF will not be as good as a lens which is USM.
02/02/2008 10:12:25 AM · #5
For fastest/most accurate focusing:

1) Use f/2.8 lenses
2) Use a lens that has USM
3) Use the center AF point
4) If the area is especially dark, use the focus assist beam (on a Canon 580EX, for example).

And for more information than you ever thought you'd want to know about the Canon focusing system, click here.
02/02/2008 10:18:26 AM · #6
//www.fotothing.com/photos/13c/13cf9684e059dc54fe06ec71aae1baf4_d74.jpg

My Canon Mark III's 1st ever test shoot.
Lense used : Canon 70-200mm F2.8 USM L
Taken at night without flash - out of 500 I shot, only about 20-30 missed the mark ( and considering it was tracking an extremely fast + constantly moving light source at ISO 1250 that's pretty good ! )
I've used 20D's and 40D's also and although as not as fast as the 1D bodies I have never had any focal problems with either ( when using L glass ! )
If you're on a budget, the fastest and sharpest non L lense I have used was the Canon 85mm F1.8 USM
You'll see a huge improvement over the image quality of the kit lense too.

Sorry, my mistake.
Link posted instead of an image.
Also, it's best to give it a context.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_S8RbPYpQo&feature=related

Now you can see how fast ( and dark ) their routine is which should give you a rough idea of how well the canon focus system " can " work.

Message edited by author 2008-02-02 10:26:34.
 02/02/2008 10:20:56 AM · #7
Which AF system? Canon has a lot of them - the 350/400 version, the new 450 is like the older 20D/30D, the 40D has it's own new system, the 5D has it's own version of the 30D system, the 1DnMk2 and 1Ds mk2 have one, and the new 1D3 got yet another new focus system.

And on most bodies the base aperture of the lens will affect it's sensitivity, as the motor in the lens (USM or not) will affect focus speed also.

I'm not familiar with the nikon focus systems, but I'm sure they follow a similar progression from the D40 to the x, the 80, the 3 and 300 have a new one from what I've read as well. And again, the speed and quality of hte lens will make a difference.

I noticed a HUGE difference in focus ability with my 40D over the 30D. And once I got to playing with USM lenses, well, I don't want anything else. Even my assistant, who is not a photographer, complains when I hand him a tamron lens to shoot from teh back of the church during weddings - and there ins't any fast action going on! The difference is that great.
 02/02/2008 10:21:36 AM · #8
Good example.

BTW, It's best to post links to such large images.
 02/02/2008 10:27:56 AM · #9
Originally posted by dwterry:
For fastest/most accurate focusing:

1) Use f/2.8 lenses
2) Use a lens that has USM
3) Use the center AF point
4) If the area is especially dark, use the focus assist beam (on a Canon 580EX, for example).


5) Use a Nikon D3 ;)
 02/02/2008 10:37:54 AM · #10
Originally posted by yakatme:
Originally posted by dwterry:
For fastest/most accurate focusing:

1) Use f/2.8 lenses
2) Use a lens that has USM
3) Use the center AF point
4) If the area is especially dark, use the focus assist beam (on a Canon 580EX, for example).


5) Use a Nikon D3 ;)


I think you'll find the Canon 40D to be impressively quick at obtaining and maintaining focus. And in spite of the "bad press", I absolutely love my Mark III and it's ability to grab focus just about anywhere.
 02/02/2008 10:45:55 AM · #11
I wouldn't know first hand for either camera, just all of the recent excitement over the two new Nikons ("51 autofocus points"). The D3 is on my wishlist and I'll get to it one day soon.

Message edited by author 2008-02-02 10:46:53.
 02/02/2008 10:49:58 AM · #12
For all the "hoopla" over the number of focus points any given system has (the Mark III has 45), the center point is still, by far, my most used focus point.
 02/02/2008 11:02:53 AM · #13
Originally posted by yakatme:
Originally posted by dwterry:
For fastest/most accurate focusing:

1) Use f/2.8 lenses
2) Use a lens that has USM
3) Use the center AF point
4) If the area is especially dark, use the focus assist beam (on a Canon 580EX, for example).


5) Use a Nikon D3 ;)



02/02/2008 11:03:14 AM · #14
Recently went from the 350XT to the 40D and was amazed at the difference in the auto focus systems! And yes, glass is a very important factor, but it was a major improvement! Rarely hunts if ever, but again...when it did, it was due to using the kit lens to get a wider shot. (I so want a nice wide angle lens, but that's after the new tripod.) Using center point is also a very good point. (no punn intended).
I've never used Nikon so cannot speak to their systems.
 02/02/2008 11:08:58 AM · #15
Thanks. So basically what everyone is saying that until I can afford to upgrade my lenses, I can forget about focusing in low light.
 02/02/2008 11:11:49 AM · #16
Originally posted by kellian:
Thanks. So basically what everyone is saying that until I can afford to upgrade my lenses, I can forget about focusing in low light.


Your 50/1.8 should work. It just won't track fast moving objects in low light. But yes, higher quality glass combined with larger apertures will help you lock onto focus a lot better.
02/02/2008 11:16:35 AM · #17
I still have trouble with the 50mm. I shoot concerts a lot and with autofocus on, even with that lens, the focusing light strobes forever and by the time it finds focus, the moment is over. Which leaves me trying to figure out if I'm focused through the viewfinder. And since I don't have microscope eyes... I can't ever tell until after I've shot the picture. More often then not they're blurry and it makes me sad :(
 02/02/2008 11:24:02 AM · #18
Is the 50mm long enough for you? If so, try renting this lens for a week. It'll cost you $22 plus shipping (which isn't much) and you get to play with a higher quality 50mm lens for a whole week ($38 for two weeks). If you'd like to try the best 50mm, go for the 50mm 1.2L lens for $58 for a week. I mention that one cautiously because, if you decide you like it, buying one of your own will set you back a pretty penny or two.

For longer shots, try the 85mm 1.8. This one is also only $25/week and is a fairly fast focusing lens. I really like the more expensive 85mm 1.2L (I rented it for 3 weeks), except that, in spite of the USM, it has a very sluggish focusing mechanism. Not good for fast moving subjects. So I'd recommend the 1.8 instead.

02/02/2008 11:33:46 AM · #19

Honestly, I was never even close to impressed with the AF ability in low light of the 50mm 1.8. Now the 1.4 is another story completely, I can focus inside a closet with it. The 85mm 1.8 does damn well too.

For a daylight lens, the 50mm 1.8, rocks, especially for the price, but a low light lens it is not.

Message edited by author 2008-02-02 11:34:03.
 02/02/2008 11:43:15 AM · #20
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:
I can focus inside a closet with it. The 85mm 1.8 does damn well too.

For a daylight lens, the 50mm 1.8, rocks, especially for the price, but a low light lens it is not.


I am likely going to regret this, but how do you know this? I'm already shuddering at the answer.

MattO
 02/02/2008 11:49:56 AM · #21
Originally posted by MattO:

I am likely going to regret this, but how do you know this? I'm already shuddering at the answer.


Hey... doing bedroom photography, it's bound to happen :-P

Seriously though, those changing rooms (usually a closet or small classroom) at Churches they stick people in to get ready for a wedding usually have dismal lighting at best.
 02/02/2008 11:53:04 AM · #22
Canons better at everything.....Phffft! :)
 02/02/2008 12:10:30 PM · #23
Originally posted by CalliopeKel:
Canons better at everything.....Phffft! :)


Not exactly true... Nikons excel at being paperweights and door stops. Canon can't compete.
 02/02/2008 02:39:27 PM · #24
All the sports photogs out there use Canon's for a reason - and it's the focus speed and accuracty. But most are using the 1DnMk2 or 1D3 and all are using L glass.

Newer nikon gear should be about as good. When AF came out canon switched concepts and put the focus motors in the lense, while Nikon kept them in the body. That gave Canon an advantage that Nikon is still working to overcome - note how the low end nikon bodies don't work with all the nikon glass, only the new glass with the focus motors in the lenses. Anecodtal reports suggest the D3 can focus in near darkness.

The larger the aperture of the lens (base ap) the more light gets in to aid in focus. The FF bodies do better beacuse they let in the full circle of light to the AF mechanisms (it's located above the first mirror, so a FF body ha a larger mirror, so more light to work with). Generally then, FF bodies will always be able to outfocus a crop body in low light.

I know my 1.8 lenses focus better in low light, and the distance to the subject matters as well - the farther the subject the harder it is for the camera to lock focus.


02/07/2008 08:52:23 AM · #25
I haven't used any Canon equipment so I have nothing to compare to, but along with my "old" D70s I own three different non-pro Nikkors (18-70 F3.5-4.5 DX, 18-200 F3.5-5.6 DX VR, 12-24 F4 DX) and all three lenses autofocus very accurately and extremely quickly. From what I've read, Nikon's autofocus systems have only gotten better since the release of the D70s years ago...

Message edited by author 2008-02-07 08:52:36.
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