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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> I think I am dealt injustice.
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01/18/2008 06:18:42 PM · #1
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/796/120/629087.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/796/120/629087.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

A time lapse photo needs to be a natural, unbroken motion.

I disagree with you it fits even your rule. Do you expect me to line the fish in a row? This is the natural movement of this species called fish.

I think I am dealt injustice.

This is a quote from the message I got on the photo, which I like and think it is funny and was given in good spirit

By: ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' posthumous

GeneralE: that's definitely not a single motion.

karmat: it represents the single motion of the Gaiasphere, the delicate yet supreme circle of life.

GeneralE: we need to deal with reality here, not symbols.

karmat: do not underestimate the power of symbols.

muckpond: (enlightenbulb goes off) Whoa! I see it now! It's about global warming!

ursula: well, that's certainly not natural.

Message edited by author 2008-01-18 18:49:03.
01/18/2008 06:20:53 PM · #2
That is just Don being Don! :-D

He is, in his own way, being funny. I got a great comment from him too.

"GeneralE: that's not a natural chord progression. I think he's bending notes.

ursula: the Blues is natural.

scalvert: but is it physics?

ursula: it's physical."

Made me laugh!

btw: I gave you a 7 on that shot I like it very much!

Message edited by author 2008-01-18 18:24:57.
01/18/2008 06:23:04 PM · #3
I did notice you shot this with a fisheye lens. I think that's worth a point or two. ;)

I see the time lapse in this. I think it's well done.

Mike
01/18/2008 06:23:36 PM · #4
I think you got screwed.
01/18/2008 06:30:49 PM · #5
The comment was meant in good humour.
01/18/2008 06:37:14 PM · #6
Originally posted by Judi:

The comment was meant in good humour.


Yes... yes I understand what made it funnier that it was made a week before the disqualification.

What is really funny would be how one could get fish lined up in a row. I mean this meet the rules! this is how they naturally move.

And in fact the comment comes as sympathy to me.
01/18/2008 06:41:31 PM · #7
A time lapse photo needs to be a natural, unbroken motion.

WOW! Says who? Who made this rule up?
01/18/2008 06:44:02 PM · #8
Are you referring to the DQ or the comment you posted? As was already stated Don is just being Don. The DQ is unfortunate but the rules were murky at best. At least you got 9 favorites from it. It was a great idea and well executed to boot.
01/18/2008 06:47:19 PM · #9
Originally posted by yanko:

Are you referring to the DQ or the comment you posted? As was already stated Don is just being Don. The DQ is unfortunate but the rules were murky at best. At least you got 9 favorites from it. It was a great idea and well executed to boot.


The comment is ok and funny. I fine with it.

It is the fact that they think the movement is not natural. I mean come on these are fishs swiming. whay r they lookin for. parade!!
01/18/2008 07:21:30 PM · #10
So a time lapse photo of a drunk man swaying and staggering all over the place would not meet the criteria either then. Drunkeness is not natural nor an unbroken motion. I would be interested to see if this would be DQ'd. It seems as though there are more and more images getting DQ'd which puts me off going to the effort to bother with entering challenges.

Rules are continually changed or amended/adapted to cover a clever members newly found post processing which is not covered by rules. How is anyone to know and be happy that they have not stepped outside the guidelines without reading them every challenge. What a joke. I have just had a quick look around and cannot find anywhere in the rules for this challenge, nor the description which outlines what Time Lapse is. ie "A time lapse photo needs to be a natural, unbroken motion"

I understand the the comment by posthumous was meant to be in good humour, however it is not good humour that this entry was DQ'd for not being a natural and unbroken motion. Get off your high horse SC and get a grip on things. Please explain the natural motion of a gold fish.

This has made my mind up. Time to wind down and get away from DPC. Great community, but the rules and requirements (meeting the unknown expectations of the SC) is too much for me. I will put my effort into another site/community ones thinks.
01/18/2008 07:40:02 PM · #11
Originally posted by emlbaker:

Get off your high horse SC and get a grip on things. Please explain the natural motion of a gold fish.


THANKS
01/18/2008 08:11:35 PM · #12
The SC are vague and pick and choose the very bendable rules. The challenge description was done very poorly so badly that they scratched the whole rule set. I like your picture alot I was one of those 22 that gave you a 10. the longer I take part in this site the less I like it..at least the challenge aspect of it. The advice and side challenges I do enjoy...
01/18/2008 08:24:22 PM · #13
Originally posted by electrolost:

The advice and side challenges I do enjoy...


I find that quite interesting. Having not taken part in a side challenge to date, I might have to look into it. I take it that the SC has nothing to do with Side Challenges, hence your enjoyment in participating.

As for the rules sets. I have settled down now after my outburst earlier, and after thinking about it, this question came to mind:

How in the world can anybody be sure that ANY submission has not broken the rules for a given challenge.

Sure you can be asked to verify a submission, provide the original etc etc, but as we have already seen, members find ways of making whatever adjustments they feel without using the dis-allowed procedures in the challenge rules, the rules, which have been on occasion subsequently amended to outlaw the new way of getting the required result.

To me too many rules and especially cloudy rules that often change and do not encompass all DQable guidelines (not all the time, as discovered here) make for a boring and unenjoyable experience.

Just my thoughts of course and not directed at any one person
01/18/2008 08:26:53 PM · #14
I think some of you are being a little hard on the SC, this was a difficult rule set to implement and know in advance in which directions we would push the limits. To their credit they threw the rules out there to see what the issues were and found them, by the truckload. We knew all along that this was a difficult challenge to interpret and something that hadn't been tried before but it has allowed some fine tuning of the rule-set which in the long term will enable more creativity for those that want it. I don't envy their job of trying to make sure all our interpretations of the challenge were legal.

HighNooner it's a great photo, enjoy it. A DQ is not the end of the world it's just part of the learning curve and the inevitable teething problems of new rules.

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.
01/18/2008 08:35:34 PM · #15
Originally posted by Wildcard:

I think some of you are being a little hard on the SC, this was a difficult rule set to implement and know in advance in which directions we would push the limits. To their credit they threw the rules out there to see what the issues were and found them, by the truckload.


Why DQ people if it was thown out there as a trial to see what limits would be pushed. Publish the challenge as a clear trial. If you dont know in advance what will be pushed, how can you amend the rules after the fact. How can you adhere to the rules from the get go if they are not there in full, hence DQing someone for something that was nto clear seems insane to me.

Originally posted by Wildcard:

We knew all along that this was a difficult challenge to interpret and something that hadn't been tried before but it has allowed some fine tuning of the rule-set which in the long term will enable more creativity for those that want it.


Again, a trial would have been more fitting for a first time rule set. I don't envy their job of trying to make sure all our interpretations of the challenge were legal.

Originally posted by Wildcard:

A DQ is not the end of the world it's just part of the learning curve and the inevitable teething problems of new rules.


If a judge sentenced someone to prison for a crime they committed before it was illegal they would not consider it a learning experience. I know this is an extreme comparison, but hey some people take their photography seriously.

Originally posted by Wildcard:

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.


Mine too.

01/18/2008 08:35:39 PM · #16
I'm just going to say that I agree with the SC decision to get rid of the "Time Lapse" allowance in the rules.
01/18/2008 08:44:28 PM · #17
' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' emlbaker there was a huge thread with the rules being questioned/discussed/debated/hated there was a lot to be learned about the rules from that thread. There is also and it was encouraged particularly in this challenge the opportunity to send your files in for verification before the challenge if you were in at all unsure about the rules.
01/18/2008 08:48:26 PM · #18
I thought for sure they would err on the side of leniency - not just on the DQ penalties, but on the DQ's themselves. The fish DQ seems highly unjustified. Maybe it would be better to just delete that whole challenge and pretend it never happened.

Frankly, I was taken by surprise by that ruleset when announced. Seems like people had been pushing specifically for HDR type editing for a long time, but I had never even seen a request for time-lapse type allowances (not that there haven't been any, I've just not seen them) - so where did that come from all of a sudden?? I could have seen it as a one challenge yellow flag ruleset, but I was pretty shocked that it apparently got through all the SC debating and modifications before we (or I anyway) ever had a clue something like that was coming.

As a consolation, I think they should change ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' HighNooner's username to dealt_injustice. :)

Message edited by author 2008-01-18 20:50:48.
01/18/2008 08:48:31 PM · #19
Perhaps SC should have defined "natural motion" as motion along a path that is easily definable by a linear mathematical expression.

Of course, true nature doesn't fit that model.

Then again, SC chose to use their god-like powers to redefine nature to fit their rules.

Message edited by author 2008-01-18 20:59:03.
01/18/2008 08:54:19 PM · #20
' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Wildcard I am happy that that thread was being discussed, and admittedly I have not visited it. It was however, after the fact, too little to late for those that were DQ'd.
01/18/2008 08:56:35 PM · #21
Originally posted by Spazmo99:

Than again, SC chose to use their god-like powers to redefine nature to fit their rules.


BANG BANG. That has got to hurt
01/18/2008 09:05:41 PM · #22
Originally posted by emlbaker:

' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Wildcard I am happy that that thread was being discussed, and admittedly I have not visited it. It was however, after the fact, too little to late for those that were DQ'd.


There was an 18 page discussion before the challenge rollover. And in case you missed it the rules have changed.
01/18/2008 09:10:08 PM · #23
Originally posted by emlbaker:

' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Wildcard I am happy that that thread was being discussed, and admittedly I have not visited it. It was however, after the fact, too little to late for those that were DQ'd.


It was on two different threads with lots of SC input for almost the entire time the contest was open to entries. I discovered that the image I was going to enter was DQ-able from these threads and did not enter it.
01/18/2008 09:17:50 PM · #24
I don't think it's quite fair to rely on an endless ongoing discussion thread that someone has to sift through and still may not get the same answer. I think ALL of the entries should have been automatically prescreened for validation and the submitters notified by email far enough in advance to change or withdraw their entries - or alternatively, there should be no DQs except for the typical obvious reasons.

Just the opinion of an observer anyway. I just don't get the point of DQing these images in this instance.
01/18/2008 09:20:52 PM · #25
Originally posted by Wildcard:

Originally posted by emlbaker:

' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Wildcard I am happy that that thread was being discussed, and admittedly I have not visited it. It was however, after the fact, too little to late for those that were DQ'd.


There was an 18 page discussion before the challenge rollover. And in case you missed it the rules have changed.


Happy with that Wildcard, however I think I am not making my point clear. I understand that it was discussed at length. (BTW the 18 pages you speak of are over a 12 month period, not just due to this challenge). My personal opinion is that I believe the rules or goal posts should not be moved after a challenge has opened for submission. To use a comparison, if a sporting body were discussing rule changes or format changes, and came to a decision to change the guidelines during a match, game etc, they would not expect those rules to be implemented during the current match/game.

I am not atacking you personally Wildcard, however I am enjoying the discussion.

I for one, do not spend all that much time in the forums, and consider the forums and chanllenges as two different elements in this site. Furthermore it did not say anywhere in the challenge details that entrants should read the forums to ensure that they meet the guidelines for the challenge as they are subject to change after the challenge starts.

ETA: Seeing as this has moved slightly away from the DQ'd image to discussing the finer details of the conduct of challenges, will an SC join the discussion? It might benefit the challenge aspect of the site.

Message edited by author 2008-01-18 21:31:28.
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