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01/15/2008 12:21:02 PM · #51 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
So your Best of 2007 had to fit the Advanced rules at the time the image was taken?
What about using multiple frames of the same scene for HDRI? |
Personally, I think the changes were intended for 2008 and only announced a day early to prepare members for the change. Just my opinion, though, and I doubt we'd DQ anyone for entering a photo that was legal when captured. |
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01/15/2008 12:25:59 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
So your Best of 2007 had to fit the Advanced rules at the time the image was taken?
What about using multiple frames of the same scene for HDRI? |
Personally, I think the changes were intended for 2008 and only announced a day early to prepare members for the change. Just my opinion, though, and I doubt we'd DQ anyone for entering a photo that was legal when captured. |
Of course not. My question is, and I really need to know, can we use multiple captures of the same scene for purposes of HDRI, as laid out in the rules attached to the Best of 2007 challenge?
I'm not trying to stir up anything here, but I was under the impression that we could, as long as the images were the same scene and taken in 2007. |
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01/15/2008 12:31:25 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
So your Best of 2007 had to fit the Advanced rules at the time the image was taken? |
IMO, the photo has to fit the rules in effect at the time the challenge is announced. That's why January FS can still use the Time-Lapse rules, but others announced later cannot. The "Best of ..." challenges are a bit different since they are the only challenges where the photo does not have to be taken after the announcement, but personally I think that rule -- that the applicable rules are those in effect at the time of the announcement should apply. One reason we held off announcing Best of 2007 was so we could finish the latest rules revision (excision) first ... besides, the challenge announcement says right there which rules apply. :-) |
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01/15/2008 12:33:06 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
My question is, and I really need to know, can we use multiple captures of the same scene for purposes of HDRI, as laid out in the rules attached to the Best of 2007 challenge? |
Yes, I think that's OK. |
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01/15/2008 12:34:44 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by HighNooner:
Originally posted by langdon:
Please note that we've made a few tweaks to remove the confusing Time-Lapse allowance from the Advanced Editing rules for now, although they can still be used for the January Free Study since it was announced before this change. |
Can they be still used for best of 2007 as well? They were taken before the new new rule |
Multiple capture entries were not permitted until the last day of 2007. In the unlikely event that your best photo of 2007 happened to be a time-lapse photo taken on December 31st, I suppose it would be allowed, but it would be a good idea to submit a ticket for opinions. |
So your Best of 2007 had to fit the Advanced rules at the time the image was taken?
What about using multiple frames of the same scene for HDRI? |
IN THIS CASE THIS IS IT
{removed photo from post pending discussion, this may be legal}
I will look for somthing else
Message edited by ClubJuggle - Remove poss. challenge entry. |
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01/15/2008 12:36:14 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by scarbrd:
So your Best of 2007 had to fit the Advanced rules at the time the image was taken? |
IMO, the photo has to fit the rules in effect at the time the challenge is announced. That's why January FS can still use the Time-Lapse rules, but others announced later cannot. The "Best of ..." challenges are a bit different since they are the only challenges where the photo does not have to be taken after the announcement, but personally I think that rule -- that the applicable rules are those in effect at the time of the announcement should apply. One reason we held off announcing Best of 2007 was so we could finish the latest rules revision (excision) first ... besides, the challenge announcement says right there which rules apply. :-) |
Well that's good news for me because I have a BUNCH of HDRI images from 2007 that were never legal for challenges...
R.
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01/15/2008 01:05:31 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Well that's good news for me because I have a BUNCH of HDRI images from 2007 that were never legal for challenges...
R. |
I figured you'd be head cheerleader for this. :-)
Just take note of the extra rules reminder that you must have intact originals for all the images used to construct your entry. |
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01/15/2008 01:21:53 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Well that's good news for me because I have a BUNCH of HDRI images from 2007 that were never legal for challenges...
R. |
I figured you'd be head cheerleader for this. :-)
Just take note of the extra rules reminder that you must have intact originals for all the images used to construct your entry. |
Not a problem for Mr. Packrat... I don't throw away anything I can work with, and mnot much I can't work with :-)
R.
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01/15/2008 01:23:48 PM · #59 |
For those asking about HDRI or Time Lapse: Since there are differing opinions expressed by SC in this thread about legality, I've opened a discussion to get a definitive answer, and we will post back to this thread once we have it.
~Terry
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01/15/2008 02:17:23 PM · #60 |
| I certainly hope HDRI is allowed for the Best of 2007 challenge. It would be a great opportunity to showcase what HDRI can do for those who have bracketed shots. And for those who don't have bracketed shots or want to use HDRI, the regular advanced editing techniques are still there. |
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01/15/2008 08:14:41 PM · #61 |
*bump* again for those that have missed it
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01/15/2008 08:49:17 PM · #62 |
Hey! I'm retarded... what is the basic and most stark difference(s) between the 2?
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01/15/2008 09:12:14 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
I certainly hope HDRI is allowed for the Best of 2007 challenge. It would be a great opportunity to showcase what HDRI can do for those who have bracketed shots. And for those who don't have bracketed shots or want to use HDRI, the regular advanced editing techniques are still there. |
Now how in the world is this fair. Most of us don't have HDR shots. I don't want to compete agains HDR shots with one picture up against the dynamic range of ten. Now if you let me combine ten pictures the way I want, it would be fair. This should all be combined in an expert digital art editing category. If you want a photography contest, it should be a single photograph. |
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01/15/2008 09:23:36 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by cloudsme:
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
I certainly hope HDRI is allowed for the Best of 2007 challenge. It would be a great opportunity to showcase what HDRI can do for those who have bracketed shots. And for those who don't have bracketed shots or want to use HDRI, the regular advanced editing techniques are still there. |
Now how in the world is this fair. Most of us don't have HDR shots. I don't want to compete agains HDR shots with one picture up against the dynamic range of ten. Now if you let me combine ten pictures the way I want, it would be fair. This should all be combined in an expert digital art editing category. If you want a photography contest, it should be a single photograph. |
Under the old rules you can use multiple exposures adjustments of the same RAW image and combine them with HDR.
Is it fair that people with P&S cameras compete against people with high end dSLRs? super telephotos? studio lighting? Plus, nothing stopped us from making bracketed exposures while shooting at any time. Why should I be constrained from entering what I feel is my best effort of 2007?
The real point is HDR with multiple images of the same scene is allowed under the rules attached to the challenge. |
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01/15/2008 09:54:26 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by scarbrd:
Originally posted by cloudsme:
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
I certainly hope HDRI is allowed for the Best of 2007 challenge. It would be a great opportunity to showcase what HDRI can do for those who have bracketed shots. And for those who don't have bracketed shots or want to use HDRI, the regular advanced editing techniques are still there. |
Now how in the world is this fair. Most of us don't have HDR shots. I don't want to compete agains HDR shots with one picture up against the dynamic range of ten. Now if you let me combine ten pictures the way I want, it would be fair. This should all be combined in an expert digital art editing category. If you want a photography contest, it should be a single photograph. |
Under the old rules you can use multiple exposures adjustments of the same RAW image and combine them with HDR.
Is it fair that people with P&S cameras compete against people with high end dSLRs? super telephotos? studio lighting? Plus, nothing stopped us from making bracketed exposures while shooting at any time. Why should I be constrained from entering what I feel is my best effort of 2007?
First of all, it is not multiple exposures under the old rules. It is one exposure, processed to optimize hilites or shadows. As far as different equipment, I think that is a different subject and not relevent to this arguement. Lastly, I don't think you should be constrained from entering your best effort of 2007. I just have a problem with you entering ten of your best effort.
The real point is HDR with multiple images of the same scene is allowed under the rules attached to the challenge. |
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01/15/2008 10:14:40 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by cloudsme:
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
I certainly hope HDRI is allowed for the Best of 2007 challenge. It would be a great opportunity to showcase what HDRI can do for those who have bracketed shots. And for those who don't have bracketed shots or want to use HDRI, the regular advanced editing techniques are still there. |
Now how in the world is this fair. Most of us don't have HDR shots. I don't want to compete agains HDR shots with one picture up against the dynamic range of ten. Now if you let me combine ten pictures the way I want, it would be fair. This should all be combined in an expert digital art editing category. If you want a photography contest, it should be a single photograph. |
Isn't this the same argument as minimal vs basic vs advanced? If you don't know how to do basic editing, is it fair to have that ruleset? If you don't know how to dodge/burn, do layers, etc, is it fair to have advanced?
HDR is just another tool to produce a photograph, it does not guarantee an advantage. And if that tool is not used properly, it can make a decent photo look awful.
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01/15/2008 10:57:14 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
Originally posted by cloudsme:
Originally posted by mad_brewer:
I certainly hope HDRI is allowed for the Best of 2007 challenge. It would be a great opportunity to showcase what HDRI can do for those who have bracketed shots. And for those who don't have bracketed shots or want to use HDRI, the regular advanced editing techniques are still there. |
Now how in the world is this fair. Most of us don't have HDR shots. I don't want to compete agains HDR shots with one picture up against the dynamic range of ten. Now if you let me combine ten pictures the way I want, it would be fair. This should all be combined in an expert digital art editing category. If you want a photography contest, it should be a single photograph. |
Isn't this the same argument as minimal vs basic vs advanced? If you don't know how to do basic editing, is it fair to have that ruleset? If you don't know how to dodge/burn, do layers, etc, is it fair to have advanced?
HDR is just another tool to produce a photograph, it does not guarantee an advantage. And if that tool is not used properly, it can make a decent photo look awful. |
HDR is a tool. I agree. And you can use all the HDR on the one image or tone mapping or do whatever you want to it. My issue is that a select few will have the advantage of using 10 images instead of one. I don't care if it's the same scene. You have ten times the pixels to work with. You have 10 different exposure times to work with. You have the ten photos to pick the best bird, the best wave, the nicest light through the clouds.
It would be like if I could use ten photos on my studio shot. I would pick the nicest smile, the sharpest eyes, light the hair nicely for one shot. Shoot the background perfectly, and combine them to make a shot. This would be an equivalent contest to me. If you can use ten shots to your best advantage, I want to be able to do the same. But to be honest, I think we should all use one shot.
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01/15/2008 11:08:18 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by cloudsme:
If you can use ten shots to your best advantage, I want to be able to do the same. |
You're as free to use 10 frames as anyone else. Merging the best wave with the best sky, etc. (changing features between frames) isn't allowed, though. |
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01/15/2008 11:14:36 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by cloudsme:
If you can use ten shots to your best advantage, I want to be able to do the same. |
You're as free to use 10 frames as anyone else. Merging the best wave with the best sky, etc. (changing features between frames) isn't allowed, though. |
Now that is just not true. Unless you are saying my model example is legal. Unless you are saying I can shoot a plaza and pick the most interesting and best people in the best place from the ten shots. The ten shot rule is almost only useful for HDR landscape photography. |
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01/15/2008 11:20:07 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by cloudsme:
Unless you are saying I can shoot a plaza and pick the most interesting and best people in the best place from the ten shots. |
You're talking about merging scenes with changing elements, and you can't really do that for landscape photography either. There's no reason you couldn't use HDR with a still life or even a portrait- just set your camera to bracket exposures with a fast shutter speed and shoot a burst, then merge away.
Message edited by author 2008-01-15 23:21:10. |
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01/15/2008 11:28:37 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by cloudsme:
HDR is a tool. I agree. And you can use all the HDR on the one image or tone mapping or do whatever you want to it. My issue is that a select few will have the advantage of using 10 images instead of one. I don't care if it's the same scene. You have ten times the pixels to work with. You have 10 different exposure times to work with. You have the ten photos to pick the best bird, the best wave, the nicest light through the clouds.
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For HDR, the best bird, the best wave, and the nicest light through the clouds are the ones that don't move, IMO. |
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01/15/2008 11:33:39 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Well that's good news for me because I have a BUNCH of HDRI images from 2007 that were never legal for challenges...
R. |
I figured you'd be head cheerleader for this. :-)
Just take note of the extra rules reminder that you must have intact originals for all the images used to construct your entry. |
Make me Second!
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01/15/2008 11:43:16 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by cloudsme:
Unless you are saying I can shoot a plaza and pick the most interesting and best people in the best place from the ten shots. |
You're talking about merging scenes with changing elements, and you can't really do that for landscape photography either. There's no reason you couldn't use HDR with a still life or even a portrait- just set your camera to bracket exposures with a fast shutter speed and shoot a burst, then merge away. |
Well, birds and waves are changing elements. There are no scenes (with the possible exception of still life) that will not have some changing elements over 10 frames. I don't see why I would have to use a fast shutter speed and shoot a burst for my model. It can't be done with portrait lights. They take 3 seconds to recycle. But this is really nonsense. What we have here is a contest where most of us can use one photo, and landscape, or still life photographers can use ten. It's not a fair contest, and not something I would regularly participate in. |
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01/15/2008 11:45:43 PM · #74 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
For those asking about HDRI or Time Lapse: Since there are differing opinions expressed by SC in this thread about legality, I've opened a discussion to get a definitive answer, and we will post back to this thread once we have it.
~Terry |
To follow-up on this, your entry for Best of 2007 must meet the Advanced Editing (Jan. 14) rules, regardless of what rules were in effect at the time your entry was shot.
This means, for example, that combining photos for HDRI (to the extent permitted in the new rules) is legal, even though it was not legal in 2007. Conversely, time-lapse, which was legal on Dec 31, is not legal for this challenge, even if it was shot on that date.
Free Study 2008-01 is running under Advanced Editing VI, even for entries shot on or after January 14.
In other words, the rules are tied to the challenge, not to the shooting date.
~Terry
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01/15/2008 11:57:20 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
For those asking about HDRI or Time Lapse: Since there are differing opinions expressed by SC in this thread about legality, I've opened a discussion to get a definitive answer, and we will post back to this thread once we have it.
~Terry |
To follow-up on this, your entry for Best of 2007 must meet the Advanced Editing (Jan. 14) rules, regardless of what rules were in effect at the time your entry was shot.
This means, for example, that combining photos for HDRI (to the extent permitted in the new rules) is legal, even though it was not legal in 2007. Conversely, time-lapse, which was legal on Dec 31, is not legal for this challenge, even if it was shot on that date.
Free Study 2008-01 is running under Advanced Editing VI, even for entries shot on or after January 14.
In other words, the rules are tied to the challenge, not to the shooting date.
~Terry |
Thanks for clearing that up Terry. I know this has been a tough few weeks for the SC. |
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