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12/28/2007 01:16:38 AM · #1 |
Well today was a pretty sucky way for me to end 2007... where to begin?
Today I was let go from my job (that is a 1st for me, and I am taking it pretty hard). I worked for a very small company, and like many others out there, business was just not good, and my mananger had to let some people go, me being one of them. But being the nice guy he is, and knowing how much I love photography, he offered to hire me to take all the photos of his products to put on his website. He is letting me use his lighting, and his light box (because I don't own any of that stuff). So my question is, how much do I charge him?
He also told me that if I wanted to take up photography professionally (which I would love to do someday, but don't feel I am near qualified to do just yet), he would give all of his customers my name so I could do their photos as well. I know that taking photos for him will be great practice, and really good experience for me though. He told me to take his lighting and light box home with me so I can experiment. (He knows I have no experience, so he is really taking a chance letting me do this).
Okay, sorry for my rant, I am just so upset right now, this is a really bad time for me to be out of a job, and my husband has been really supportive of me losing my job, but he doesn't think of my photography as anything but a hobby, so I don't know. Any help or advice would be greatly appriciated right now. Thank you all for your support, the people on this site are wonderful. |
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12/28/2007 01:29:04 AM · #2 |
Wow... being forced to quit is a tough thing. I went through it once. Hated the way it made me feel. In the long run, I decided it was the best possible thing that could happen to me (though it certainly didn't seem that way until much later). And so it could be for you too!
Sounds like your manager is either really trying to give you a boost, or trying to make himself not feel so bad (you know this has to be hard on him too!). I can't tell you what to charge. But I can tell you that most people under-value their work.
Good luck with the potential photography business. Maybe you and Cindi  idnic can get together! (she's going through the same thing right now)
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12/28/2007 01:30:52 AM · #3 |
| You may not believe this now, but while you may see this as a horrible way to end 2007, it's an AWESOME way to start 2008! You're being given the opportunity that a whole lot of the rest of us would love to have. Take the lights, the light box, and practice. Post stuff here - the product photogs will help you. Do the work that your boss needs to have done - show him what you get, see if he wants changes, redo if needed. Ask here for prices, or better yet, ask him what he's paid before. Get your stuff out there, then let him give your name to other customers. Take this opportunity and run with it! |
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12/28/2007 01:41:45 AM · #4 |
In this day and age, this being your first 'let go' means you have been lucky. I know that you are not feeling this way right now, but it WILL get better.
You definitely must have been hard to let go. Your boss' offer is incredulous to me...and should be a godsend to you. Looking at your portfolio here shows that you are an extremely gifted photographer and although you (and hubbie) may consider it a hobby, you have the capability of doing more with it.
My suggestion... go for it. Get all of the points well stated from your boss on what he is looking for in the photos for the website, what he hopes to accomplish with it in the future. Take a crudload of photos of the type he is looking for and then...try to take better ones.
As you probably know, the Internet is getting stronger and stronger everyday. The era of using 'stock' photos on websites is falling partially to the wayside because manufacturers and retailers want more from their investments. There is a definite future for photographers like those you are contemplating. And lots of money.
I think that if you are considering this, you might want to talk with the website designer too. See what it is he/she needs out the photos. He may say that you give him the photos and he will make them fit, or he may tell you the sizes, resolutions and all that he wants. He may have an idea of where the site should go and the photographs will help him get there.
To me, I think this is an opportunity that is golden to you. You can work primarily out of your house (which, as it appears you have a couple of itzy-bitzies)and primarily be your own person.
I would give both my eyeteeth to have this chance, so for me... grab it and run!!
Congrats and good luck!
Edited to say that Melethia said it all better and in a lot fewer words, And I agree with her 200%
Message edited by author 2007-12-28 01:43:59.
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12/28/2007 02:54:23 AM · #5 |
To me it seems like a blessing in disguise and you will see that in time. I am willing to bet that you will do a good job at photographing the items for your ex boss's website. I cannot give you any advice regarding pricing but I'm sure there are plenty of people who are professional or semi-pro that can field your questions.
Congratulations on the opportunity!
I like the portraits on your site of the children. It seems you catch the moment quite well. |
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12/28/2007 06:28:45 AM · #6 |
People say that when one door closes another opens - it may not seem like it now but you have an opportunity to make a new start in your life. You must give it a go - you will not know until you try and if you dont try you may regret it.
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12/28/2007 11:36:48 AM · #7 |
Thank you everyone who commented and gave me advice. While things seem pretty sucky at the moment =) I know that it will get better. I am going in to talk to my ex-boss today about the photos he'd like me to take. He is going to let me take the lighting and the light box home with me so I can practice, and then next week I will do the actual photos of his products.
I am really nervous, but I know this is a great opportunity for me. I did have one more question though. My ex-boss offered to help me set up an LLC, make a website, print me business cards, all of that stuff, but can I hold off on that route temporarily? I mean, I would love to one day do this as a business, but until I get some more clientele, I think I should hold off, actually my husband thinks I should wait, truth be told. Would it be legal for me to do this work for my boss without having a business? (See how completely clueless I am?)
Thank you everyone again for your advice and support. |
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12/28/2007 11:54:37 AM · #8 |
| I think it would be legal, you can still work as an independent contractor on 1099 basis. Just pay taxes and it'll be legal. |
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12/28/2007 12:27:27 PM · #9 |
Tiny, sorry to hear about your job. That does suck, especially if it's particularly bad timing for personal reasons, but like others have said it can work out better than you realize. I was let go from my first job when I was 24 or 25, and then again when I was 31, and both times I ended up with higher-paying jobs that offered more opportunity. Now I'm making way more than I ever would have imagined I would at 38, and I think if that first job had gone on I wouldn't even be making half as much as I am now.
So, good luck with finding a new one, try to hold out for the right job and don't just take the first thing that comes along if you can wait it out. And in the meantime, definitely take advantage of your boss's offer!
BTW, still enjoying your discs. :-) |
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12/28/2007 12:31:16 PM · #10 |
Wish I could've been the first to tell you how lucky you are. You do have an awesome opportunity! Losing the job may suck, but I am certain you will come to see it as one of the greatest blessings! You are certainly a good enough photographer to make a living at it and you just need to learn the business aspects. Take advantage of your ex-bosses offer to help. You don't need to setup an LLC - just get a business license and join your local chamber of commerce and use your ex-bosse's contacts to help build clientele. If you can collect unemployment, use that to help you get by and take some basic business classes or get career counseling to help get your photography business started! If your husband is worried about it, work out an agreement with him to give you six months to reach a reasonable revenue goal and ask him for his support. You'll also have plenty of support here.
Best of luck to you! We will all be "watching" with anticipation! :)
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12/28/2007 12:44:52 PM · #11 |
I really have to agree with most of the people that have already posted, this is a great opportunity.
If you do plan on starting something yourself, I believe that it is critical to have a website. It offers a quick easy way for people to learn about what you can do to help them, along with your contact info. It also offers your potential clients a chance to view some of your sample works/portfolio before committing.
If you need assistance with this I would be glad to help, I do web design for photographers all the time. Usually web designers would charge a ton to start a site, but I'd be willing to help for free to get a site up and running for you.
Your boss was right, you really just need to experiment with the lighting and learn for yourself how to make the products you're shooting visually appealing.
If I were you, I'd also think about doing some stock photography work for place such at istockphoto. There are plenty of opourtunities, especially once your name gets out in your community. I started off doing sports for a local newspaper, and now I am doing events and product shots all the time.
Sorry to hear about your job, but its really great that you're given the opportunity to start fresh like this. |
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12/28/2007 12:52:23 PM · #12 |
about pricing, when I do product shots, I charge and hourly rate for the actual shots. The rate depends on the organization you're working for, but the first time I do work for a business I give them a deal so they get your name out and call you back for work in the future.
If they need you to crop and resize or edit any of the photos, I charge for art time as well, not on a per-image basis.
Here is an example of a jewelry shoot which I did recently.
$50 per hour of shooting- 2 hours
$30 per hour of art time- 1 hour
I then published the images online for them to download when needed (I sold the rights to the images), which you may or may want to do. I charged $95 for putting them online.
$100+30+95= $225
For only three hours of time, this was a huge profit, but depending on how you would like to price it you could do it differently.
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12/28/2007 02:32:39 PM · #13 |
Gosh I am an emotional wreck...
Thank you everyone for the outpour of support. I never dreamed when I joined this site in August that the people on here would become such a great resource for me, and on top of that all of the friends I would meet, its like a second family =)
So after a lot of thinking, and crying, and yes, even smiling, here is what I think I would like to do...
First, meet with Tim (my ex-boss), take his equipment home with me and take pictures like crazy.
Second, take Kens advice, start collecting unemployment, and get a business liscense, and get in with our local chamber of commerce (should be easy enough since Tim is an active member).
Third, get my name out there any and every way possible!
4th, go put in job applications everywhere else. =)
I will keep everyone posted!
P.S.- David, thank you so very much for your generous offer! Tim has also offered to help me with a website, so after I get everything together, I will definately keep you in mind. |
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12/28/2007 08:23:16 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:
If your husband is worried about it, work out an agreement with him to give you six months to reach a reasonable revenue goal and ask him for his support. You'll also have plenty of support here. |
I couldn't agree more with this idea. You have the opportunity to really make yourself into your own boss. While you may make more immediately somewhere else, in the long run, if you can get into the Photo business, you'll be making what you want and working when you want -- perfect in my eyes.
Good luck! |
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12/28/2007 08:30:29 PM · #15 |
Well, I have been in business over 30 years and have yet been able to work when I want. You have to work when the customer wants. I have an idea the picture business will be the same.
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12/28/2007 09:42:28 PM · #16 |
my thoughts...
he's being so cool, enabling you to do this, ask Tim what he would want to pay.
I just finished 15 years of freelance work - to take a J.O.B. (they made an offer my wife couldn't refuse) I honestly can't see how people live like this...
Here's what I have done -
I aim for $100/hr for every job - sometimes I hit $300/hr, sometimes $75. When you factor in software, hardware (camera and computer), studio space, upgrades, etc. I've found it a good number to aim for.
I used to think if I worked for a little because I am inexperienced I could "work my way" into the world. All it got me was a bunch of high maintenence low paying clients that I had to eventually fire. Charge what you think you should be making in five years now.
I moved from motion graphics into photography about a year and a half ago. I called my buddy who has been a photographer for 30 years, asked his rates, and came in at about 75% of his rates (he charges $600 per shot for some shoots!) Response has been terrific, and I have great gear and feel terrific when I make more in a Saturday shooting for a client than I do working for two weeks at my J.O.B.
There's more, but I'll let you ask if you'd like to hear more. PM me, or IM or whatever we call it around here and I'll get you my real email and we can talk more if it's helpful.
Go! This is a terrific opportunity. I think it will be hard, and you'll want to bag it at times, but 2008 will be the best year of your life when you look back on it all. Congrats on the universe handing you a terrific opportunity. |
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12/28/2007 09:45:55 PM · #17 |
Moatz, I"m not sure if I can be of any use to you, but I'd certainly try.
I am working as a product photographer for a hardware chain here in the Seattle area. If you have any specific questions, perhaps I can help. |
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12/28/2007 10:09:00 PM · #18 |
| I'm not gonna go so far as to say that this is a good thing for you. I will point out that the door that says exit on one side says entrance on the other... |
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12/29/2007 09:17:18 PM · #19 |
Okay, so I know these aren't great, or even very creative, I was doing them at 2 o'clock last night, and didn't have access to my good editing program either, but let me what you think...
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12/29/2007 10:06:50 PM · #20 |
It doesn't matter what we think - what does HE think.
I collaborate with all my clients - shoot/animate/design for a while, get it to where I think it's getting good, then talk with the client. Get their input on what they'd like to see different. After you go around like this a few times, you'll develop a rhythm of sweet moneymaking/client satisfaction.
I think they are a good enough to start a conversation with the client. :-) |
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12/29/2007 11:13:46 PM · #21 |
I should add that all the photos that I will be taking will be used for is my ex-boss' shopping cart on his website. So when one his customers check out, if they choose to do so, they can download a .jpeg photo of the product they are buying. I do not believe that any of the photos are going to be used for the web site itself. The products are cleaning, sealing, and restoring chemicals. (Anyone have any creative ideas for that?) Thank you for the comments, they are really helpful, like I said, this is all brand spanking new to me, so I am not expecting to nail it on my first try. =)
Message edited by author 2007-12-29 23:14:49. |
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12/30/2007 12:30:52 AM · #22 |
| If the products are to be used on decks, concrete, etc, see if you can shoot them on those surfaces. Or have shots of those surfaces you can incorporate into the light tent shots? Maybe add a small tool or two. But basically just shoot a straight product shot to start - you can add stuff as you go and find out what your "customer" (who sounds like a great guy!) wants. You can also use additional shots to start building your portfolio, to give other customers an idea of the things you can do for them. |
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12/30/2007 11:15:06 AM · #23 |
I would expect the printing on the product to be legible and crisp (see bottom of SwissMiss can) and as dark as it is on the product. (lotion tubes) Melethia has some good ideas. Also, I don't like to see wrinkles on backdrops. Flowing curves are ok though.
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01/09/2008 05:02:25 PM · #24 |
Here are a few more that I did, let me know what you think. I e-mailed some of them to my manager, so I am just waiting to hear back from him... I will let you know what he thought of them. Still no luck on the job hunt yet though.
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01/10/2008 01:33:21 PM · #25 |
| Its a big thumbs up from the boss man, so tomorrow I have to go and pick up all of the products from him and start taking pictures, for real money! LoL |
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