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12/26/2007 08:08:05 AM · #1
I don't understand how my Long Exposure photo placed so badly. It's not the score that bothers me (6.1) it's the fact that it placed 41st out of 157.

This is my image at 41st:

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And these are other similar streaming lights shots (of lesser quality imho) that placed way better than mine:

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(how is this one even legal under basic editing with such selective colour changes??)

I've got a far stronger shot in for the Perspective challenge that is scoring a 5.9 at the moment. I'm going to give this site one or two more challenges and then I'm leaving. This isn't worth it. I don't expect ribbons and adulation but I do expect some realistic feedback.

I know this is a cliched image but it's not a bad image, or in the very least it's better than a number that scored higher than it.

Someone help me out here...tell me what I'm doing wrong because this is soul destroying and amotivational...

N

Message edited by author 2007-12-26 08:10:01.
12/26/2007 08:10:36 AM · #2
You did better than me at 73rd

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12/26/2007 08:14:59 AM · #3
Originally posted by fastforward:

I don't understand how my Long Exposure photo placed so badly. It's not the score that bothers me (6.1) it's the fact that it placed 41st out of 157.


A 6.1 score is excellent and you should be proud of it. Your own comments about your photo tell me you would be happy with the score of 6. I think the multiple shots in the challenge with the same theme and the fact that the other shots you showed had more color and stronger leading lines drawing us into the shot probably gave them a higher score.

If you look at your shot, the diagonal lines from the bridges actually cleave the flow of the traffic, while in the other shots, the bridges and lines actually flow with the traffic (more appealing to many at DPC, i guess)

Personally, I quite liked your shot and gave you a 9.

On the question about legality of the last shot you show - selective desaturation is completely allowed in basic, just as long as it is done on the entire image. If one object just happens to be red and you desaturation everything else but red in Hue/Saturation - you end up with the red streak...a cool and simple technique

Message edited by author 2007-12-26 08:16:48.
12/26/2007 08:16:34 AM · #4
Yeah but with respect mate your shot isn't the greatest composition - just too much sky in frame (imho) and not enough of the subject. If you wanted to show a contrast between the black of the sky and the streaming lights from the cars I'd have tried it in portrait with a wider angle to try to capture a bit more of the traffic streams.

I know mine isn't amazing either but it is well composed and a decent shot. Streaming lights may not be to everyone's taste but it's still a well composed photo....it seems that people don't have any level of objectivity about them and only vote for what they like/don't like, which seems to me that there is a higher probability of certain types of shot being successful (e.g. the potato shot on the eBay challenge which wasn't the strongest shot there by a long way).

N
12/26/2007 08:19:15 AM · #5
Originally posted by fastforward:

it seems that people don't have any level of objectivity about them and only vote for what they like/don't like

That is exactly how people vote. As long as people vote consistently, it is fine. No one is being asked to vote objectively. DPC is about voting, not about objective judging.
12/26/2007 08:19:24 AM · #6
The reason I went with more sky was because I wanted the stars along with the lights from the cars. And you're right about their being too many car lights shots but again I wanted more sky to move away from the ALL car lights. It's just something that has been done too many times. Be happy with your 6.1

12/26/2007 08:21:37 AM · #7
Dont take your place or your score to seriously, i very rarely agree with my placement but at the end of the day i dont really care :)
12/26/2007 08:26:44 AM · #8
I would "die" for a 6.1,,,,,,,,
I personally like the desaturated one. Yes, we vote what we like, but we learn, dont take it personally(still learning that) and go on. You have a nice shot, but it didnt really do anything for me(sorry).
12/26/2007 08:31:13 AM · #9
I'll be glad to give an extensive comment on your shot, if you explain to me what makes this
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a picture of lesser quality than yours.

12/26/2007 08:34:36 AM · #10
Oliver - Personally, your shot is fabulous and I think it is perfectly placed in the voting. The leading lines and diagonals in your image actually work to enhance the image and draw us in as opposed to cutting off the flow of the image as the image that started this thread possesses.

Originally posted by eyewave:

I'll be glad to give an extensive comment on your shot, if you explain to me what makes this
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a picture of lesser quality than yours.
12/26/2007 08:35:04 AM · #11
Originally posted by eyewave:

I'll be glad to give an extensive comment on your shot, if you explain to me what makes this
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a picture of lesser quality than yours.


HAHAHA The dog is off the chain. I repeat ::singing:: WHO LET THE DOGS OUT!!!

12/26/2007 08:36:28 AM · #12
Originally posted by eyewave:

I'll be glad to give an extensive comment on your shot, if you explain to me what makes this
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a picture of lesser quality than yours.


I find the main element of your photograph is the back of two large road signs that obscured the flow and lines from the streaming traffic below. It's the first thing I saw and for my eyes/mind overrides the rest of the photograph..i.e. it just doesn't look nice, or rather that it dominates a central position in a shot that isn't that wide.

But I guess I'm in the minority/wrong here because the voters all agree with you, not me.

N
12/26/2007 08:37:28 AM · #13
For what it's worth, I gave all of them the same score, with the exception of the last, which I rated a point higher. Why? I liked that it wasn't quite as slick, and that it had people in it going places, and that it was entirely too busy. I'm weird.

I liked your perspective and the lines. Were I to find nits, I'd say it's a bit overexposed for my taste. I liked the perspective Oliver chose as well - a bit more unconventional with its centeredness (and yes, I like the signs there.)

A 6.1 is a good score, and I don't think it's signficantly better than Oliver's, in either quality or composition.
12/26/2007 09:02:28 AM · #14
Originally posted by fastforward:


I find the main element of your photograph is the back of two large road signs that obscured the flow and lines from the streaming traffic below. It's the first thing I saw and for my eyes/mind overrides the rest of the photograph..i.e. it just doesn't look nice, or rather that it dominates a central position in a shot that isn't that wide.
N


Not the most satisfying explanation, but accepted. I had preferred the signs not to be there, too, but don't think they dominate the picture.

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Your shot is quite well composed, most of the lines draw me into the center. I like the slight fisheye effect. The horizon is slightly tilted to the left. All the lights are blown, while the shadows show little drawing if any. As in most night shots, color mood is neither looking natural nor exaggerated to a Sci-Fi look, it's just plain dull and brownish. There are little interesting deatils in your shot, it's just concrete, tracks and planks. I rated your shot a 6 .

Things that IMNSHO made my picture finish higher than yours: Pleasing colors. Good detail in lights and shadows. More interesting location with some interesting details.

Notice: it's just a difference of 0.3, not the world. And you got twice as much tens than me and a fav. So don't give up after just 4 challenges, we all make experiences like this.
12/26/2007 09:04:46 AM · #15
Originally posted by fastforward:

I'm going to give this site one or two more challenges and then I'm leaving.


Well bugger off then. But if this is actually a call for help as much as a verbal flounce:

By and large I tend to agree that your picture is as good as any of the others. I sort of have to read the minds of voters to say why it scored lower, which makes the following unreliable, but anyway . . .

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I'd say that this picture is the better of the four with regard to the sort of eerie glow and surreal texture that sometimes comes out in long exposure shots. This effect was (indirectly?) mentioned in the challenge description, as I recall. Things that make this picture attractive to dpc voters may be that you can tell what everything is and that it's all set out rather neatly. It's otherwise chaotic but the S-curve of the monorail is a very positive element.

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Similar, but to a lesser extent with regard to the colour thing (nice touch on the tower though). Pretty basic sort of composition, but maybe that helps by not challenging the voters :-) Very good S-curve and a nice line of lights dividing the frame...

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Can't say I was that taken by this one, but maybe it scored some by being different. You can selectively desaturate in an adjustment layer so it's legal in basic - the essential principle is to affect all pixels equally with whatever editing you apply.

You certainly had the S-curve down in your shot. Not much colour though. The bridge overhead would be a more significant compositional element if it were more distinct and I think that's perhaps something to be said for most of the structural stuff - it's more in the way of the picture than contributing.

Still n all, my three highest scores in 150 challenges are all 6.1xx, so [irony]my heart bleeds for you[/irony]. I very often feel that my entry is a whole lot better than just about all of the others, but that's not a bad thing: I'm going in something like the direction I want.

Best of luck, if you go or if you stay now...
12/26/2007 09:17:13 AM · #16
You can't take this too seriously. Votes are from a whole bunch of different people, so, anything can happen. I wish I was placed better in this challenge too, but at sametime, I am happy that I scored over 6.2 with my 4th entry shortly after joining DPC.
12/26/2007 09:25:40 AM · #17
First, a 6.1 score is a nice finish and as others have stated they would kill for a 6.1 score in any challenge. Second, there were many good shots in this challenge with higher scores leaving you at 41st. Many times a 6.1 could place you in the top 10-15 of a challenge, just this time there were a large amount of quality shots. Now on to the difference in your veiw of the other shots in comparision to yours. I find yours to be a nice shot with an intresting s-curve but do find the darker park of the frame as a distraction, it adds nothing to the composition, imo. The other three shots, imo, are a bit more intresting in regard to the color and composition, especially the the selective desatuarted one. You will never agree with the palacement of all the photos in a challenge, whether it is yours or one you feel should have placed higher. But if you wanna take your ball and go home b/c things aren't going your way nobody is going to stop you, but you will be missing out on a tremendous site with much to offer. Trevor~
12/26/2007 09:46:04 AM · #18
Originally posted by eyewave:

As in most night shots, color mood is neither looking natural nor exaggerated to a Sci-Fi look, it's just plain dull and brownish. There are little interesting deatils in your shot, it's just concrete, tracks and planks. I rated your shot a 6 .

Things that IMNSHO made my picture finish higher than yours: Pleasing colors. Good detail in lights and shadows. More interesting location with some interesting details.


Thanks for the feedback - it is appreciated. I know you can't shine a sh!t but I've had a quick play at the colour palette on my streaming light shot...one b&w and one high saturation colour. Do you feel that either are better than the submitted one?

Submitted
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B&W
[thumb]625923[/thumb]

High Colour
[thumb]625925[/thumb]

As for the location thing, that has to be personal taste because I thought mine was better. The car park below isn't very endearing but as you say, the colours are far stronger in yours and perhaps decent colour overrides composition.

Thanks again,

N

12/26/2007 09:48:32 AM · #19
No one likes a complainer...

Not a single person cares if you give this site a challenge or two before leaving. DId you think your shot should of won? Whats going to be different in the next two challenges? DO we all get to look forward to another thread of you complaining about not placing in the top 10 with another sub par shot.

Im sure you will look at my portfolio and tear apart my images and tell me I have no business saying anything. To each their own.
12/26/2007 09:53:20 AM · #20
Originally posted by raish:


Well bugger off then. But if this is actually a call for help as much as a verbal flounce


Both I think... but mostly a call for help with a teeny bit of boxing day hangover flounce.

Thanks for the input though. I just can't help but feel that mine has a better composition than the others of similar ilk. I think the colours are the problem but I can't think of a better solution...which means it's just an average pic and I should get over it and move onto the next challenge...

N
12/26/2007 09:55:25 AM · #21
Here is what I do:

I shoot what I like and what appeals to MY eye. IF I place it in a challenge and a lot like it then fine. If not then fine.
12/26/2007 09:55:27 AM · #22
What nobody else has mentioned (or I missed it): Your shot is the only vertical of the 4 you are comparing. When you combine its verticality with the extreme compression caused by the two overpasses, the overall effect is distinctly claustrophobic. It's not "comfortable" at all, it's more of an "edgy" image.

Now, I'll grant that edginess, the deliberate generation of discomfort, is a valid artistic goal, but it tends not to do as well, score-wise, in mass-voting sites. The other 3 images are more open and welcoming, they tend to draw you in. Your image, on the other hand, has an odd aspect of "repelling", if you catch my drift? I don't mean it's repulsive, but that it tends to reject the viewer, psychologically.

FWIW.

R.
12/26/2007 09:57:52 AM · #23
Your shot is an interesting shot.

The flow, and how the eye moves with the image is good.

I, however, did not vote on this challenge.

When you say that this site is not worth it. That is your perspective. You then must find your way.

This site has nothing to do with your art, or your passion. When you understand this, you will do good here.

This site, DPC, is no different than other photo sites, except for one thing....consistency.

Every other photo site that I have explored through the years are all the same. They are like a live "being" that in itself has tastes just like you and me.

DPC is a community of people that act like one being, and it has tastes. But the consistency of the advice, knowledge, and warmth of the community is outstanding here.

Try this next time you enter a challenge, at least for your own benefit.

Check out previous challenges with similar themes. See who the winners were. Notice what the community likes, and dislikes. You will notice what tastes this community has as a whole.

The long exposure challenges are usually the same type of image in this case.

If a ribbon is what you desire, this should give you a better idea of how to obtain one.

If art is what you desire, then keep asking questions and don't worry about a virtual ribbon.

If parity is what you desire,well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and art is subjective, this is not the place for that.

Good luck.
12/26/2007 10:01:33 AM · #24
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

What nobody else has mentioned (or I missed it): Your shot is the only vertical of the 4 you are comparing. When you combine its verticality with the extreme compression caused by the two overpasses, the overall effect is distinctly claustrophobic. It's not "comfortable" at all, it's more of an "edgy" image.

Now, I'll grant that edginess, the deliberate generation of discomfort, is a valid artistic goal, but it tends not to do as well, score-wise, in mass-voting sites. The other 3 images are more open and welcoming, they tend to draw you in. Your image, on the other hand, has an odd aspect of "repelling", if you catch my drift? I don't mean it's repulsive, but that it tends to reject the viewer, psychologically.

FWIW.

R.


Thank you Bear...point well made (and taken). This also explains why my Perspective shot is showing poorly at the moment (5.9 average but 2 faves) because it is a much more edgy/challenging image than this one is.

Does this mean that if I want to score well at DPC I need to shoot some more "user friendly" images? (and is this selling out artistically??!)

N
12/26/2007 10:08:42 AM · #25
Much improved by the colour, IMHO.

But with a run through shadow/highlight and partial desaturation of everything but the blues and magentas?

[thumb]625937[/thumb]
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