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12/24/2007 04:39:10 PM · #1
Looking at some challenge results, I thought that quite a big portion of all voters don't really care about whether a photo is really relating to the challenge topics when they vote. Am I alone on this?
12/24/2007 05:00:54 PM · #2
I go back and forth on this ... when I shoehorn an entry into a challenge, it seems that all the world's a critic. When I nail a challenge, no one seems that exercized about fitting the theme. Go figure.
12/24/2007 05:10:25 PM · #3
It's a tough call, and I think it is because whether or not something fits the challenge is such a subjective thing. I vote based on the quality of the photo, and my personal liking of it. The appropriateness of the shot may have a minor bearing on my rating. I will make mention in my comments If I feel it really did not fit the theme.

Maybe we need a "shoehorn" ribbon?

Message edited by author 2007-12-24 17:11:17.
12/24/2007 05:10:44 PM · #4
That has always frustrated me a little. I'm always afraid being a DNMC, so I've passed on several challenges, only to look at the photos afterwards and realize that people were so liberal with the description that I had a ton of photos I could have used. The Ebay one is a good example. I couldn't think of anything creative enough (I was trying to think of something involving some creative item in a box or something and I just didn't have enough time to think it all through), so I passed on that challenge, and then the second place winner is simply a photo of some Christmas ornaments. Don't get me wrong, it's an absolutely beautiful shot, but it says nothing about Ebay to me at all. If I had realized that we could pretty much get away with entering a pretty shot of any object, I could have come up with all sorts of things to shoot.

I think I just read too much into the descriptions. I agonize over the details too much. But it will figure that the one time I decide to relax and just enter something, I'll get DNMC'd to death, so I just keep on sticking close to the descriptions and grumbling when other people don't, lol.
12/24/2007 05:20:41 PM · #5
If it doesn't meet the challenge I vote 1 no matter how good the picture is.
12/24/2007 05:27:52 PM · #6
Originally posted by Wenders11:

That has always frustrated me a little. I'm always afraid being a DNMC, so I've passed on several challenges, only to look at the photos afterwards and realize that people were so liberal with the description that I had a ton of photos I could have used. The Ebay one is a good example. I couldn't think of anything creative enough (I was trying to think of something involving some creative item in a box or something and I just didn't have enough time to think it all through), so I passed on that challenge, and then the second place winner is simply a photo of some Christmas ornaments. Don't get me wrong, it's an absolutely beautiful shot, but it says nothing about Ebay to me at all. If I had realized that we could pretty much get away with entering a pretty shot of any object, I could have come up with all sorts of things to shoot.

I think I just read too much into the descriptions. I agonize over the details too much. But it will figure that the one time I decide to relax and just enter something, I'll get DNMC'd to death, so I just keep on sticking close to the descriptions and grumbling when other people don't, lol.


I am pretty new here, but also the kind who is always worrying about breaking contest rules, afraid of not fitting into the topics:-)

When I look through results, I would kick myself in the you know where and ask myself why did I worry that much. But, I know I will do the same again when I start thinking about entering another contest.

If not many people care about topics, why don't we just skip the tricky titles and use simple ones like trees, buildings, boats, men in black, or lady in red, etc.?

12/24/2007 05:34:00 PM · #7
I care very much about topics (as do plenty of other people), and we have discussions like this one about every 2 months.

The ebay challenge probably isn't a good example to pick for this, since you truly CAN buy the craziest things on ebay, so it just wouldn't be right to hand out low scores just because the "purchase" is a weird one, something you wouldn't buy, and/or something you wouldn't normally find for sale.

Please, DO keep caring about the topic, that is what makes DPC special, but be sure to allow for interpretations that are different to your own.
12/24/2007 05:53:35 PM · #8
Originally posted by DistantColours:

If it doesn't meet the challenge I vote 1 no matter how good the picture is.


and you're never wrong :-)
12/24/2007 08:03:08 PM · #9
Originally posted by raish:

Originally posted by DistantColours:

If it doesn't meet the challenge I vote 1 no matter how good the picture is.


and you're never wrong :-)


While this way might be a little extreme to me, but the other way (don't care about relevance at all) is much worse
12/24/2007 11:59:45 PM · #10
This has given me some thought. It's not right to give a high score to something that is clearly not on topic, but it's also shorting someone on their personal interpretation if I hand out a 1 to an otherwise great shot.

I may start giving a vote of 1 less than it would have otherwise received if I see a clear and obvious shoehorn attempt. If I do this I will also make note in my comments. The person will then at their discretion be able to explain to me why it does fit.

Think that would be fair?
12/25/2007 02:41:55 AM · #11
I usually give people a 2 if it's a shoehorn but all the technicals are good.
12/25/2007 02:57:44 AM · #12
I think we need a shoehorn challenge. :-)
12/25/2007 03:43:26 AM · #13
Originally posted by Melethia:

I think we need a shoehorn challenge. :-)

Isn't that called "Free Study"?
12/25/2007 05:43:51 AM · #14
No, a shoehorn challenge. We have to find clever ways to present an actual shoehorn. :-)
12/25/2007 10:16:41 AM · #15
It is a toughy this, however, although i've not been with the site very long, the top shots always seem to me to fulfill the criteria of revelance and quality, so i'm not really complaining!
12/25/2007 11:15:34 AM · #16
Originally posted by Melethia:

No, a shoehorn challenge. We have to find clever ways to present an actual shoehorn. :-)


Someone will put it in the hands of a half-naked gorgeous woman with a butterfly on her shoulder, a puppy at her heels, and a waterfall behind her. Oh, and they'll mist water droplets on the shoehorn. 8.0+!

Not that I ever shoot DPC cliches. Nope. Not me. *whistles innocently*

Back to the topic at hand, I encourage people to do two things simultaneously: 1) Vote low on shots that don't meet the challenge and 2) Vastly expand the possible interpretations and be aware that you may now know everything about how a global membership might interpret it.

If I just can't find a way to fit an otherwise wonderful shot into the challenge, I usually vote 5 or so. On the other hand, if someone finds a novel way of interpreting it, I might bump the score a point or two.
12/25/2007 03:19:28 PM · #17
Originally posted by DistantColours:

If it doesn't meet the challenge I vote 1 no matter how good the picture is.

The problem is in the interpretation.

Take the Perspective challenge for instance......is a shot upwards of a Great Dane taken from laying on the ground any less meeting the challenge than the vanishing lines of a railroad track in a tunnel?

One's visual perspective, and the other is a different perspective on a visual.

Both definitely meet the challenge, correct?

And either perspective could have a dramatic effect on the image, done correctly.

It's all too often difficult to ascertain what someone else's interpretation may be, so voting someone else a 1 may not be fair; it may simply mean that you missed their presentation entirely.

Of course, the object is to be able to convey that in your image, but it's not always the fault of the photographer, if YOU don't get it!.....8>)
12/25/2007 03:45:38 PM · #18
Maybe I will get a Great Dane AND a shoehorn for Xmas, but then I would have to decide....
12/26/2007 08:12:19 AM · #19
Originally posted by Beetle:

I care very much about topics (as do plenty of other people), and we have discussions like this one about every 2 months.

The ebay challenge probably isn't a good example to pick for this, since you truly CAN buy the craziest things on ebay, so it just wouldn't be right to hand out low scores just because the "purchase" is a weird one, something you wouldn't buy, and/or something you wouldn't normally find for sale.

Please, DO keep caring about the topic, that is what makes DPC special, but be sure to allow for interpretations that are different to your own.


Any thoughts on the Hidden City challenge?
12/26/2007 08:30:17 AM · #20
Originally posted by DistantColours:

If it doesn't meet the challenge I vote 1 no matter how good the picture is.


In the eys of many that is not fair. Not saying that I do or don't that but in the rules of voting that is not allowed.
12/26/2007 08:34:46 AM · #21
Originally posted by Dr.Confuser:

I go back and forth on this ... when I shoehorn an entry into a challenge, it seems that all the world's a critic. When I nail a challenge, no one seems that exercized about fitting the theme. Go figure.


Interesting. Think of this like a bathroom. if you walk into the wrong bathroom, people are going to say something. If you walk into the correct bathroom, nobody says a thing.

The challenge descriptions are there as a basic definition of what ought to be there. Nobody really should get excited about fitting it. Sometimes there are some that go really well together because the challenge description has a trickier wording, but generally you either fit the description or not.

Incidentally, I put an idea a while back on web site suggestions that outlined a very clear and simple solution for this problem. The idea met with very little opposition and was regarded by many as a pretty decent idea. The SC responded directly that there was a plan in motion that was similar but not quite the same for the challenges. The idea is here if anyone cares.

I've not seen anything to reflect this and my interest in the challenges is at a new low.

Message edited by author 2007-12-26 08:56:41.
12/26/2007 08:38:03 AM · #22
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

Originally posted by DistantColours:

If it doesn't meet the challenge I vote 1 no matter how good the picture is.


In the eys of many that is not fair. Not saying that I do or don't that but in the rules of voting that is not allowed.


You might want to read the rules again then.

Voting as you see fit is entirely the purpose of voting. Additionally, using your interpretation (impractical to use anyone else's) to adjust your votes according to meeting the challenge is SPECIFICALLY what you ARE supposed to do. If that means voting it a 1, then so be it.

What isn't fair is voting 1 for no particular reason no matter how good the picture is.

The ability of the picture to fit the challenge description is a legitimate reason.

Originally posted by the Voting Rules Page:


You should:
...
...
...
consider the challenge topic when voting, and adjust your score accordingly.
...


Message edited by author 2007-12-26 08:44:03.
12/26/2007 08:58:21 AM · #23
Originally posted by eschelar:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

Originally posted by DistantColours:

If it doesn't meet the challenge I vote 1 no matter how good the picture is.


In the eys of many that is not fair. Not saying that I do or don't that but in the rules of voting that is not allowed.


You might want to read the rules again then.

Voting as you see fit is entirely the purpose of voting. Additionally, using your interpretation (impractical to use anyone else's) to adjust your votes according to meeting the challenge is SPECIFICALLY what you ARE supposed to do. If that means voting it a 1, then so be it.

What isn't fair is voting 1 for no particular reason no matter how good the picture is.

The ability of the picture to fit the challenge description is a legitimate reason.

Originally posted by the Voting Rules Page:


You should:
...
...
...
consider the challenge topic when voting, and adjust your score accordingly.
...


So, have you had chance to loook at the Hidden City? Too much shoehorning or not enough?
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