| Author | Thread |
|
|
12/27/2007 09:48:21 AM · #76 |
I'm thinking of organizing a legion of troll-voters to promote cow-feces photography:
Who's in?
|
|
|
|
12/27/2007 10:00:16 AM · #77 |
Originally posted by Strikeslip:
I'm thinking of organizing a legion of troll-voters to promote cow-feces photography:
Who's in? |
10
|
|
|
|
12/27/2007 10:04:02 AM · #78 |
.
Message edited by author 2007-12-27 10:25:18. |
|
|
|
12/27/2007 10:12:57 AM · #79 |
mabe its the otherway around,lighten up francis......
|
|
|
|
12/27/2007 12:16:57 PM · #80 |
Originally posted by hopper:
Originally posted by Melethia:
... can't see voting it "down" just because it isn't my style of photography. |
Why not, it gets voted "up" for the same reason? |
In most cases, the photography is technically very good - excellent, even. I can't justify voting it "down" just because it's not my thing. I suppose people probably do vote it "up" because it's flashy, catches their eye - but like I said, that's what sells.
And Skippy dear, that's simply a crappy picture. |
|
|
|
12/27/2007 01:24:17 PM · #81 |
Originally posted by karmat:
All of you realize, the onus, the responsibility lies squarely on your shoulders?
The SC has been working, is working, and will be working to make dpc as marketable as possible. We can control some things.
The one thing I've seen mentioned repeatedly in this thread, though, is something we can't control, nor do we intend to. Actually, we don't want to, either. How people vote.
Over the past five years (almost 6), I have voted in a lot of challenges. At first, my scores were almost always consistent with the final list. Now, sometimes they are, but more often than not, they are not. Why? I vote for what I like, the styles I like, the techniques I like, etc. Technicals are hugely important to me, but I also look for some kind of emotional impact as well. I did not do that when I started. Sometimes, a perfect technical shot will score substantially lower for me than one that is less technical, but packs a powerful emotional punch.
There have been enough people posting in this thread, that you could possibly turn the tide. Of course, it would take a bit of time, but I think if all of you who want to see something different, voting committedly for a couple of months, the front page could start showing something different.
It's a big task, though. |
i completely agree! |
|
|
|
12/27/2007 05:50:52 PM · #82 |
show me some growth and development. show me that you're willing to take a risk. show me that you can do more than run out and pop a tried-and-true high-scoring shot. show me that there's something deeper inside of you...
if you want to see some over-the-top stuff, check out the following link. it's full of stuff that got hammered in the voting here at dpc. but, when you look at it as a complete body of work, you'll get the picture. and when you compare it to the 'eye-candy' ribboners, you'll see why dpc starts to lose its flavor for people like az and nick...
one man's vision |
|
|
|
12/27/2007 06:03:08 PM · #83 |
I can understand why people get disillusioned with the way DPC members vote - for me a successful challenge is about getting positive feedback from people who appreciate what I'm trying to do (favourites are also really nice to get) and it's the oobies and posthumous ribbons that I strive towards rather than the conventional ones. If I get a higher score than I was expecting than that's a nice bonus.
Message edited by author 2007-12-27 18:03:28. |
|
|
|
12/27/2007 06:08:14 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by Skip:
show me some growth and development. show me that you're willing to take a risk. show me that you can do more than run out and pop a tried-and-true high-scoring shot. show me that there's something deeper inside of you...
one man's vision |
I suppose that's it in a nutshell.
"All of you realize, the onus, the responsibility lies squarely on your shoulders? "
I'm nobody here. There's nothing I could do to change things. The only people who could instill change are the ribbon winning site leaders by entering the images that are more from their hearts and less from their side which wants to win ribbons.
Many/some, if you look at their portfolios have a dual photographic personality...their Ribbon winning folder and everything else. Quite often it looks like they are two different photographers.
I'd love to see those people take more risks. That would do it.
Oh and it would also help if we all didn't praise them for taking the same wining shot over and over and over...
Message edited by author 2007-12-27 18:11:05. |
|
|
|
12/27/2007 06:32:40 PM · #85 |
So, tell me again. Why should they change their vision, their desire, their expression to make you happy?
Perhaps the winners are following their dreams. Perhaps they are doing what they like to do. Why should they change so that you can see the images you like?
I still say the power is with the voters. Not the photographers. |
|
|
|
12/27/2007 06:40:51 PM · #86 |
Originally posted by pawdrix:
Many/some, if you look at their portfolios have a dual photographic personality...their Ribbon winning folder and everything else. Quite often it looks like they are two different photographers.
I'd love to see those people take more risks. That would do it.
|
Originally posted by karmat:
Perhaps the winners are following their dreams. |
I'm with karmat in thinking that while some photographers have the dual personality Skip talks about, most are doing what they love and the images that, let's face it, the majority want to see.
We're just annoyed because we don't agree with the majority, and I think we're deluding ourselves if we think that voting habits could change. IMO the best thing to do is to encourage the oobie/posthumous ribbon side of things (an oobie for every challenge perhaps?) and make sure that those who are entering the really challenging images that shoot straight over most people's heads get positive feedback from us. |
|
|
|
12/27/2007 06:47:07 PM · #87 |
| Also, there are the most wonderful moments that come along once in a while where a photo manages to appeal to everyone. I love it when that happens. Like the photographic equivalent of when Britten's War Requiem was at the top of the album charts in the UK (quite some time ago!). |
|
|
|
12/27/2007 07:07:07 PM · #88 |
I totally agree with Karma. I'm making it a point to get back to voting, and I'm not always kind...no extra points for technical perfection and I won't skip anything because I don't want to award a low score. { You're so nice Deb, that's why we love you. } When I vote, I vote the entire challenge.
People get hassled for low voting averages, are labeled "trolls", etc., etc...unfair really. That's why we have a scale from 1 to 10 to use as we please. I am speaking with my vote now and I'm embracing the entire scale. We are all allowed our own criteria for voting. "Technical perfection" takes a backseat to something truly marvelous in my eyes. I'm sure I've mentioned this before also, it's not the subject of the image that becomes played out, it's how it is seen. Be true to your own eyes, your own thoughts...and you will be rewarded with something new and exciting if you just let it happen. |
|
|
|
12/27/2007 07:08:39 PM · #89 |
> figaro
Plato's cave remains well populated. The job here, ergo, for the few, is to make the best popular, not because there might be a remote chance of success but because it is the only sensible thing to do.
Message edited by author 2007-12-27 19:09:14. |
|
|
|
12/27/2007 07:14:35 PM · #90 |
Originally posted by karmat:
Perhaps the winners are following their dreams. Perhaps they are doing what they like to do. Why should they change so that you can see the images you like? |
they don't have to do anything, but, gawd, how AWFUL an existence...maybe not to them, but to me, it just feels like GROUNDHOG DAY...same 5#!+ day in, day out.
breeep-breeep, it's ROLLOEVER TIME! and you go and shoot the same ribbon-winning shot again, rather than really force yourself to explore your world, yourself, or your camera.
and it's not going to change. it's not up to the voters, it's not up to the photographers, it's just the way it is. some people don't mind, and they'll hang around, participating in various capacities, and others, the photographers who get tired of it, simply move on... |
|
|
|
12/27/2007 10:16:57 PM · #91 |
OK, maybe I'll start giving, ummm... 4's to those pop culture wineglass at sunset with waterdrop shots.... :-)
I do vote on most entries. Just every once in awhile I come across one that makes me groan because I've seen it too many times... Of course, every once in a greater while I come across a photograph that simply takes my breath away and makes me say "Oh!" out loud. There's one of those in voting at the moment. What a perfect world it would be if that won a ribbon! It has happened - of the instances I can recall at the moment, two shots belong to jjbeguin and one to e301. So there is hope.
  
Message edited by author 2007-12-28 00:52:15. |
|
|
|
12/28/2007 12:17:04 AM · #92 |
Originally posted by karmat:
So, tell me again. Why should they change their vision, their desire, their expression to make you happy? |
That's my point exactly. I don't believe they are shooting their vision. They are shooting towards the voters vision. I have no issue if they shoot what they really think kicks ass...and I mean what seriously kicks their own butts but I don't think that holds true.
I know and have met some (of the ribbon wining site leaders) and I believe from our discussions that they aspire to a different standard. In fact, I'm certain of it.
Skip put it well, better than I could by making the Groundhog Day analogy.
One concern I have is when the team stuff kicks back in that some will resort to the sure fire, high score producers for the teams sake. It seems formulaic from where I sit.
Message edited by author 2007-12-28 00:24:15. |
|
|
|
12/28/2007 12:30:55 AM · #93 |
| I really like the team concept, for the ability to share and discuss shots. Helps a lot to improve a particular photograph, to get ideas, to learn new things. But I agree that once it gets going, formulaic may rule. What would be really kinda cool, though, is get a bunch of the ribbon machines together (kinda like they had before) but this go 'round have them do their best to be anti-forumlaic. See what these guys/gals are truly capable of if they release themselves from the DPC mold. They're good - they've got the technicals nailed, that's for sure - now lets see if they can fly. :-) |
|
|
|
12/28/2007 12:48:03 AM · #94 |
Maybe some photographers like exploring lots of different genres? Me, for instance. I like both the pretty (my recent wineglasses, shots of DC's memorials) and the not-so-pretty (many other entries). I've thought about starting a thread titled "I have no style" and seeing who feels the same way.
Yes, I'm tired of seeing the same thing over and over. Ultimately, though, why spend so much time wringing our hands over who and what wins the ribbons? Ribbons reflect the average vote, but there's nothing wrong with disagreeing. Just focus on the other things people have mentioned here: favorites, posthumous' (and others') highest images in each challenge, OOBies, and just generally favorable comments on non-standards.
|
|
|
|
12/28/2007 01:14:03 AM · #95 |
Seeing as I am one of the "only one challenge entry scoring above a 5.0", I think I have finally gotten my skin tough enough to realize that what I am mostly looking for is comments. Although the majority of them tell me EXACTLY what is wrong with my shots, I get a little heart flutter when someone likes my 'idea' or my picture and can give me good critical feedback. I have come to realize that the majority of the time I am not going to be in 'real' competition with the likes of Judi, or DrAchoo and so many of the other photographers on this site. Although I HOPE to score high, it is finding others who appreciate the effort I have taken to find a shot to take and enter, and then actually entering them that actually cranks my smile into brilliance.
I think this site is great in that it shows me a ton of things to shoot for and gives me ideas for photos that I would never have thought of. I have been a photographer for a long time but the majority of my shots have always been "on the spot" photography. I have never been a set up the shot type photographer. That is not what I have been paid to do. I go somewhere and shoot a ton of shots and then pick out the best, most informative of them to submit to whoever is signing the check.
With actually coming into the digital age with the capacity to shoot a zillion shots without having to spend money on film, developer, fix and so on, now I have come to the point where I want more out of my photographs. I want to be able to set up a shot to my specifications and have it say what I want it to. Even though I love the work of photographers like Ansel Adams, E. Weston and so on, the idea of sitting out on a hillside for days or even weeks like Adams was known to do, used to puzzle the freak outta me. I took a weekend 'class' from him a long time ago and asked him why he would wait so long when shots he could have taken earlier would have been almost as grand, he told me something like that to get the photograph that he wanted, the canvas had to be just right. I didn't understand...now I do.
I think that what DPC is turns out to be more of a stewpot rather than a singular entity. Looking at any single challenge, there are photographers who are intricate in their presentations, some who are more for the post-processing side, and a ton of individuals who have different likes and dislikes when it comes to photos. All of this shows in the voting, and in all of the photos themselves.
Myself...I will continue to shoot and enter photographs that I hope and pray will be well received. But I will also know that many people will not like what I enter and ...as per the voting...many won't. I don't care as much anymore. I will be happy that I put a part of me out there...and hopefully I will get one good comment with critiquing and maybe an 'attaboy'.
This is the best of the photo sites that I have found since not everybody takes everything seriously...but can have fun. But also, there are some outstanding photographers here as well.
|
|
|
|
12/28/2007 05:34:23 AM · #96 |
perhaps this thread has turned to something else. I can't speak for Nick, but if I had to think why he left I ran across this post...
Originally posted by boysetsfire:
I would rather spend my time looking at photographs that excite/inspire ME, unfortunately it seems that a lot of the time I do this on another site these days. Im not saying that there are not images here that do that but they are few and far between, and I can see many of these images I like elsewere anyway.
note: you will not see me bitching about the scores I get as I know that to help fix the issues this site has I have to fully participate myself. I enter challenges for a bit of fun and to see what funny comments I get most of the time. |
|
|
|
|
12/28/2007 06:46:51 AM · #97 |
One of the realities of this site is that it is a learning site. Many of the people here are pretty low on the learning curve and many more come when they are extremely low on the learning curve. You get alot of questions here like, "What camera should I buy?" or "I have $193, what is the best lens for that price?"
Or, you see a photo of a jungle gym in a school yard shot at ISO 1600 at noon for a challenge called "children". Then the photographer laments about their low score in these forums.
Or, you see a see a photo of a kid with a small chocolate smear (or is that dirt?) on his mouth, (the child looking into the distance), for a challenge called "chocolate". What was that guy thinking when he entered that photo? That was me, by the way, in my second challenge.
But, here is the scoop (to weed through my ramblings)...
This site is about learning. Often people come here with no idea of aperture, ISO, shutter speed, macro, or other important concepts and technical aspects of photography. Part of that learning process is figuring out how to shoot photos that other people also enjoy. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. When we first arrive, many of us can't even shot photos that we enjoy ourselves.
To leave this site and move on to another site is not a criticism of this site. The person may have just moved past what they want to do here. They are in a different stage in their growth of photography.
You look around this site, there is an amazing range of photographers and range of skills and range of styles. There is no way shooting high school senior portraits can be compared to street photography. Which is better? Which is more "important", which is being "true to yourself"?
Another reality is that everyone has different gift sets. Gift set is the ability to "see" things or "feel" a moment as opposed to skill set which is the ability to gasp and put into practice all of the technicals (lighting, etc, etc).
A gifted person is one who can consistently "think outside the box", see a moment in time, just a fleeting instant, and unconsciously take the moment and capture it, often with ease. They can look at the common in an uncommon way. Everyone is shooting a photos of the bride and groom smiling and he/she instead is capturing the tear on the cheek of the bride's mother with the bride and groom out of focus in the background.
For a technically expert person, they may "copy" to perfection, but to be original is not within them. Not because they do not want it or practice it, but because it can not be practiced.
In art and music, this has always been true.
This site favors the technical type of photographers, but not always. That is what voting and competition is about, appealing to the masses. Occasionally the front page will see something really different, but not that often. But, the images are always well done.
So, why are we criticizing well done images because they are not creative enough? Whatever. Let it go. Maybe, we need a forum thread for them or even a "DPC" graduate school.
Hey, when I look at this site, I admire the people that come, learn, and hang around to help others out with their knowledge. Others aren't teachers or patient enough or it is just not their thing. So, they move on.
One of my all time favorites here was  xion. He arrived about the same time I did to the site, I loved his images and saw him do well here. He helped me out a little and was always kind. Now he is gone, I don't know to where nor why, but why is that a bad thing, for him or for this site? A loss to this site? Sure, his images were wonderful. A loss to xion? Sure, giving back to a community helps each of us grow. But, like life, people will always be coming into and out of our lives. Wonderful, marvelous people. We can't hold onto them nor bind them. Sometimes their leaving is complex. Let them go and let them know they are always welcome back.
OK, I sense that I am rambling and going on, sorry for the blathering. Just my 2 cents...
|
|
|
|
12/28/2007 08:00:12 AM · #98 |
Bud  aguapreta, and a BEAUTIFUL rambling it was.
I think you put it perfectly.
I'd also like to give thanks to the person who gave the link to Anzym's site - it is WONDERFUL to see his work like that.
I just MISS Nick (boysetsfire) - I fully respect his need to move on, and even somewhat understand it - but I MISS him and will miss anyone who decides to leave, who I've had the pleasure of spending time with as we grow here.
I happen to be a HUGE fan of the Left of Center photographers, I spend more time hanging around with my 'favourites' (you know who you are - GRIN!)than caring what the big hitters do.
Having said that, I think this is a great site for all. So my advice to newbies, is list your favourites, find out where they hang and what they're up to and you'll find your 'place' here. (hint - Side Challenges ROCK!)
I now find I look forward more to the Posthumous awards and Oobies - to find fodder for my Spirit - SMILE!
I hope one day Nick returns. |
|
|
|
12/28/2007 09:34:26 AM · #99 |
As I've said before, I miss them for purely selfish reasons. No more can I look forward to getting a fav from either Nick or Anzym - when that happened, my challenge was complete and the score could be in the 2s for all I cared. Same with getting a comment during a challenge from them. Even moreso was perusing their portfolios, though they still exist - just not here. So that part's good.
And what Lisa said about aguapreta's post goes for me, too. Nicely expressed. 10 and a fav. :-)
Message edited by author 2007-12-28 09:34:48. |
|
|
|
12/28/2007 11:32:12 AM · #100 |
So where is boysetsfire these days then? Anyone have a link?
Found him, never mind.
Message edited by author 2007-12-28 11:32:55. |
|
