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11/11/2007 11:56:51 PM · #1 |
One reason I started participating in this site is to hopefully get more feedback about my shots so I can improve. Also, I feel like it is my responsibility to leave comments as well, I mean why should I get comments if I can't even give them out? I realize that sometimes after leaving a lot of comments the tone of my comments may not be as helpful as I would like. I really do try to tell people something I like about the shot, and something they can work on. I also try to not just tell them something is wrong, but offer a way to make it a little different. I feel like I am leaving decent comments, because a lot of people mark them as helpful. I try to leave comments on the first 10% as somebody suggested in a thread, and then for anything I give a low, or high score to. Of course, because of time, I can't always comment on every shot, but I do try to get some as many shots commented on as possible.
Now, lately I have been getting a lot of private messages after leaving comments to people. Either they think they need to justify how their shot meets the challenge, or they try to tell me that my comment was just mean and I need to tone it back a little bit. Then they usually proceed to thanking me for leaving a comment, are they really grateful? If they were why did they need to send me a message telling me how the didn't like my comment? Do other people out there get a lot of these emails too? Sometimes it makes me feel like, if I just don't leave any comments then I won't get these emails. Is it really worth leaving comments if people don't appreciate them?
I hope I don't offend any of you that have sent me these emails. Also, just so you all know, you can leave me a mean comment telling my why my shot is bad, and why it doesn't fit the challenge, because frankly, the meaner it is the more I will learn from it. I just want to also thank all of you that left comments on my piano shot after the voting was over, I really learned a lot from them. Just give me some reassurance that it really is worth leaving comments still.
If this is in the wrong forum please just move it, I wasn't sure the best place to put it.
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11/11/2007 11:58:58 PM · #2 |
| Leave the comments you like and show the nastygrams to your co-workers so they can have a laugh at the psycho's you run into online. Life is short, get the most out of it that you can. |
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11/12/2007 12:25:25 AM · #3 |
My take -
Comments, especially critical ones, are not always going to be appreciated. That's one risk of putting yourself out there. But when they are appreciated, that's worth 10 times more - so even a hit rate of one in ten is a net gain to the world.
I took a moment to scan your comments, and yes, they're sometimes direct and blunt, but I think that's a good thing. If I thought your comments were out of line I'd say so... I like praise as much as the next guy and can certainly feel the sting of criticism, but when a comment is thoughtful it helps me, even if strongly critical. That said, on some of the (IMHO) really bad shots I don't bother, as I don't feel there's enough there to comment on sometimes.
Finally, and most importantly, I think commenting brings at least as much value to the commenter as it does to the commentee - I've learned more by sitting back and thinking about what I like or don't like about a shot, and how to put it into words, than I have by receiving comments. It slows you down, and means you don't just vote by "I like it, I don't like it" but that you think about why, and that makes YOU a better photographer. What moves a 5 shot to a 6? a 7?
So my advice is keep commenting, and don't sweat those with thin skin. Overall there are more who appreciate it than those who don't, we're just not as vocal about it. |
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11/12/2007 12:45:47 AM · #4 |
I just browsed through your comments and I think one reason you get a lot of PMs is that you are asking a lot of questions. When I get comments with questions, once the challenge is over, I like to answer those questions. It would be nice if the site would allow us to address comments made to our photos during the challenges, anonymously, of course.
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11/12/2007 01:18:52 AM · #5 |
a couple comments you made:
"I don't like the color of the sky in this shot, and the smog blocks out that other tower too much. I also think it would be better without the guy standing there, try to take this when nobody is in your way."
"The angle of this and the composition isn't really very interesting. Try backing out a little bit so we can get more of the camera, I think it is just too tight."
"This picture leads me to the ceiling, I don't miss the gallery, and if you didn't tell me I was supposed to be looking for a man, I wouldn't have even seen him. If you want the gallery to be the subject, make it the subject."
your comments, may be well meant but they are QUITE short and rather abruptly demanding. students in any field will respond better to an instructor who also points out things they did well. i have to say i might not have responded well to these comments either. there is nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but maybe put a softer edge on it
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11/12/2007 01:31:49 AM · #6 |
| hmm... whatever happened to Arcady Genkin? |
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11/12/2007 01:43:33 AM · #7 |
I appreciate comments, no matter how harsh, as long as it is not a personal attack on me, which can't be the case during voting.
I think you should keep on as you are. I hope I am fortunate enough to get some of your constructive criticism.
I too think that comments is vital to this site. It is the reason that I joined and renewed my membership but I do see a dramatic decline in comments and the critique club has all but disolved.
If it continues, I will probably not renew next year and will look elsewhere for my constructive criticism.
I love the sight as it was when I joined last year and would really like to see to go back in that direction.
I have not been commenting much because it is obvious by the voting of my entries that I do not know what I am doing yet. I have discussed this with another member though and plan to start commenting more to learn by my own comments. I just hope I don't offend anyone by my lack of experience. |
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11/12/2007 02:51:43 AM · #8 |
I just looked over a bunch of your comments and don't really see anything drastically wrong with them. Only thing I see that might upset people is that they are short and to the point. You point out what is good or bad, and leave it at that without any explanation. That being said though, I am completely on board with it. I applaud you for putting in that extra effort to comment at all. I know I for one could certainly do it more. The whiners are always going to whine and there's nothing to be done about it. My suggestion is that if they email you saying you were unjust in your comments and that they were not helpful, offer to give them a more in depth critique to help them out. If they still don't like it, bugger 'em. They aren't going to listen anyway.
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11/12/2007 09:48:21 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
a couple comments you made:
"I don't like the color of the sky in this shot, and the smog blocks out that other tower too much. I also think it would be better without the guy standing there, try to take this when nobody is in your way."
"The angle of this and the composition isn't really very interesting. Try backing out a little bit so we can get more of the camera, I think it is just too tight."
"This picture leads me to the ceiling, I don't miss the gallery, and if you didn't tell me I was supposed to be looking for a man, I wouldn't have even seen him. If you want the gallery to be the subject, make it the subject."
your comments, may be well meant but they are QUITE short and rather abruptly demanding. students in any field will respond better to an instructor who also points out things they did well. i have to say i might not have responded well to these comments either. there is nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but maybe put a softer edge on it |
Are you serious? Those examples are all specific and not the least bit rude.
I'd love to get a comment from somebody who looked at my photograph long enough to write something so specific. I might not agree with the comment, but it's still helpful. |
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11/12/2007 09:55:44 AM · #10 |
I wonder how many people, like me, have just gven up commenting because of these PMs? Is this what they really want. to discourage all comments?
PS - Your comments are wonderful! I hope you can withstand the critisism better than I do.
Message edited by author 2007-11-12 10:06:35.
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11/12/2007 10:01:14 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by smardaz:
a couple comments you made:
"I don't like the color of the sky in this shot, and the smog blocks out that other tower too much. I also think it would be better without the guy standing there, try to take this when nobody is in your way."
"The angle of this and the composition isn't really very interesting. Try backing out a little bit so we can get more of the camera, I think it is just too tight."
"This picture leads me to the ceiling, I don't miss the gallery, and if you didn't tell me I was supposed to be looking for a man, I wouldn't have even seen him. If you want the gallery to be the subject, make it the subject."
your comments, may be well meant but they are QUITE short and rather abruptly demanding. students in any field will respond better to an instructor who also points out things they did well. i have to say i might not have responded well to these comments either. there is nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but maybe put a softer edge on it |
Are you serious? Those examples are all specific and not the least bit rude.
I'd love to get a comment from somebody who looked at my photograph long enough to write something so specific. I might not agree with the comment, but it's still helpful. |
I also thought these comments were helpful. I don't need a cherry on top of my comments, I guess you can tell me what you like or dislike. I know I don't have time to sit down and write a book and make it nice and sweet :) |
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11/12/2007 10:40:40 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by emorgan49:
I wonder how many people, like me, have just gven up commenting because of these PMs? Is this what they really want. to discourage all comments?
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I haven't given up and I will not. I comment for two reasons: Like many others, I like to recieve comments and therefore, I feel I should leave comments. The other reason is more egocentric: I learn a lot from giving comments, as it forces me to think well about pictures. Negative PMs (I have received only 1 on a total of 435 comments) will not stop me from wanting to learn.
ETA: @ travis_cooper: I randomly checked some of your comments and I feel they are perfectly fine. I would be happy recieving comments like that. :)
Message edited by author 2007-11-12 10:44:23.
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11/12/2007 10:49:57 AM · #13 |
I've never received a pm about a comment i've left. That leads me to believe one of two things:
1. My comments are okay.
2. Some people would feel freer blasting a member about their opinion than they would sending a pm to a SC member.
If it is the second, I offer this: If you would send a pm to a person questioning a person about their comment, but don't send it because that person is on SC, should you be sending it at all? |
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11/12/2007 10:51:13 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
your comments, may be well meant but they are QUITE short and rather abruptly demanding. students in any field will respond better to an instructor who also points out things they did well. i have to say i might not have responded well to these comments either. there is nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but maybe put a softer edge on it |
I think the comments were reasonable and fair. This isn't set up as a teacher/student scenario - it's up to the photographers to take something from the comments that someone was kind enough to spend the time on, not the commenter to write a lot of fluff around the comment to make it palatable.
Being rude, unhelpful or abusive, insulting isn't useful in comments either. But these comments are just honest and to the point. If someone doesn't want to hear it, they won't hear it with a lot of platitudes around it either.
Comments, like votes, are gifts from the person giving them. |
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11/12/2007 11:06:38 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by signal2noise:
I just browsed through your comments and I think one reason you get a lot of PMs is that you are asking a lot of questions. When I get comments with questions, once the challenge is over, I like to answer those questions. It would be nice if the site would allow us to address comments made to our photos during the challenges, anonymously, of course. |
I don't mind getting the PMs if I asked a question. I would love to clarify, and hear the answer to the question. I have received a few of those and I appreciate the opportunity to give more feedback. Usually that isn't what I am seeing though.
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11/12/2007 11:15:56 AM · #16 |
Thanks for all the responses to this thread, I get the feeling that it is just a small group of people that don't like what I have to say. I realize that the people who like the comments aren't going to send me a PM, I don't expect them to, I can see if they liked it because they marked it as helpful. And like I said above, I don't mind getting the PMs of people wanting further feedback, it is just the ones that attack me for leaving the comment. I realize some of my comments get a little harsh at times, especially when I have left a lot all at once, I can try and work on that, maybe not doing so many in one sitting. I guess I will keep on how I have in the past, hopefully the extra PMs don't discourage me, because like many of you have said, I learn from leaving comments as well.
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11/12/2007 11:23:27 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by travis_cooper:
I get the feeling that it is just a small group of people that don't like what I have to say. |
Bingo!
With that in mind, I will hereby pledge that when I receive critical comments that I find helpful, I will PM the commenter and explain why and how I found it helpful (I've received a number of these myself, in fact) so they know I appreciate it. |
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11/12/2007 11:47:02 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by abranton:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by smardaz:
a couple comments you made:
"I don't like the color of the sky in this shot, and the smog blocks out that other tower too much. I also think it would be better without the guy standing there, try to take this when nobody is in your way."
"The angle of this and the composition isn't really very interesting. Try backing out a little bit so we can get more of the camera, I think it is just too tight."
"This picture leads me to the ceiling, I don't miss the gallery, and if you didn't tell me I was supposed to be looking for a man, I wouldn't have even seen him. If you want the gallery to be the subject, make it the subject."
your comments, may be well meant but they are QUITE short and rather abruptly demanding. students in any field will respond better to an instructor who also points out things they did well. i have to say i might not have responded well to these comments either. there is nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but maybe put a softer edge on it |
Are you serious? Those examples are all specific and not the least bit rude.
I'd love to get a comment from somebody who looked at my photograph long enough to write something so specific. I might not agree with the comment, but it's still helpful. |
I also thought these comments were helpful. I don't need a cherry on top of my comments, I guess you can tell me what you like or dislike. I know I don't have time to sit down and write a book and make it nice and sweet :) |
my point is SOME people may not like these, if it works for you thats great, and yes i know this is not a teacher/student forum i just was trying to use an analogy. some good can be found in most any shot and many people respond better to the negative if something is pointed out that they did RIGHT, that they can take away for future use. |
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11/12/2007 11:52:32 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by smardaz:
my point is SOME people may not like these, if it works for you thats great, and yes i know this is not a teacher/student forum i just was trying to use an analogy. some good can be found in most any shot and many people respond better to the negative if something is pointed out that they did RIGHT, that they can take away for future use. |
Thank you for your suggestion. I agree, I should be pointing out something good as well. I try to do that, but it doesn't always happen. I will make a greater effort to say something good about the shot as well as something to improve on. That is usually my goal, but it doesn't always happen, especially after I have been leaving a lot of comments.
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11/12/2007 12:18:29 PM · #20 |
| I only read the intro message on this thread but did want to make one comment about comments. Personally I have grown as a photographer because of some really hurtful comments. My first reaction was anger but after I calmed down I realized that if I shot something like that again I was probably going to get the same kind of comments so I learned what not to shoot a bit more. However, I do find the DPC community a little too brutal. There are a fair number of individuals on this site who I am convinced enjoy hurting people's feelings. They leave comments or responses on forums designed to make a person angry or hurt them emotionally. Worse yet, these individuals do this and try to convice others it's all in the spirit of helping us grow. I see it all the time. Someone I know loves checking out my profile regularly to see if I've entered anything and when asked why they themselves didn't enter challenges they said that people here are way too mean and they could never handle the rejection so they don't even try. I think that's a little sad. Unfortunately all this post is likely to do is bring out more comments from those who enjoy hurting/insulting others so I doubt I'll read the responses to my post. I'm just not in the mood for someone to tick me off right now. |
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11/12/2007 12:27:37 PM · #21 |
The only hard and fast rule I follow is to never use these capitol letters together: DNMC.
I still vote according to how nice the image is *and* how it meets the challenge. I just don't use the dreaded DNMC.
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11/12/2007 12:30:20 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by boysetsfire:
hmm... whatever happened to Arcady Genkin? |
I believe since he couldn't stand the fire, he got out of the kitchen. A damn shame too. Although some of his comments appeared abrasive, they were usually very valuable.
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11/12/2007 12:43:42 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by lkn4truth:
There are a fair number of individuals on this site who I am convinced enjoy hurting people's feelings. |
It's hard to learn this valuable lesson. You are the only person responsible for your feelings. I'm 52, and have only really understood this fact for the last couple of years. And I've got the advantage of being male. It's almost like cheating. hehehehe Don't let the suckers get you down. Ignore them. Most people don't do this purposely.
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11/12/2007 12:45:17 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by lkn4truth:
I only read the intro message on this thread but did want to make one comment about comments. Personally I have grown as a photographer because of some really hurtful comments. My first reaction was anger but after I calmed down I realized that if I shot something like that again I was probably going to get the same kind of comments so I learned what not to shoot a bit more. However, I do find the DPC community a little too brutal. There are a fair number of individuals on this site who I am convinced enjoy hurting people's feelings. They leave comments or responses on forums designed to make a person angry or hurt them emotionally. Worse yet, these individuals do this and try to convice others it's all in the spirit of helping us grow. I see it all the time. Someone I know loves checking out my profile regularly to see if I've entered anything and when asked why they themselves didn't enter challenges they said that people here are way too mean and they could never handle the rejection so they don't even try. I think that's a little sad. Unfortunately all this post is likely to do is bring out more comments from those who enjoy hurting/insulting others so I doubt I'll read the responses to my post. I'm just not in the mood for someone to tick me off right now. |
I hope that I am not seen as somebody that enjoys hurting others feelings. That is not my intent, I have just been involved with so many communities where all the comments that are left say, nice shot, or something to that extent. I have even left some obvious problems in pictures to see if anybody would say anything, but they don't. I think it is because they don't want to hurt your feelings. But since the voting is anonymous I think people feel like they can leave more honest comments because they can't make a personal attack, because they don't even know who's shot it is. I would rather not get a comment, than see one that just says nice job.
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11/12/2007 12:50:17 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by fir3bird:
I believe since he couldn't stand the fire, he got out of the kitchen. |
Believe me, he can stand the fire. He left the kitchen because he didn't like the smell of what was cooking. |
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