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11/10/2007 03:27:08 PM · #176 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by biteme:
Another idea is to do it the same way as the Special free study:
"This challenge is open to those who have given more comments than they have received."
Maybe try to change it like this:
"This challenge is open to those who have given more VOTES than they have received." |
The second is better, for sure. The trouble with the first is that more "succesful" and "popular" members get HUGE numbers of comments; it's like punishing people for doing well...
R. |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Hanneke,
The reason that we're unlikely to re-run the "special" Free Study is that it encouraged comments alright... we got lots and lots of fluff comments, and at worst some users that gave cut/paste comments to hundreds of shots just to meet the criteria.
Mandating commenting (or voting) to get some benefit guarantees poor quality comments/votes. the only way that we get meaningful commenting/voting is for it to be voluntary. Folks have to *want* to do it. |
ok. that's right. hmm.
pfff. this is a tough thing. |
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11/10/2007 03:28:35 PM · #177 |
Originally posted by biteme:
ok. that's right. hmm.
pfff. this is a tough thing. |
Yes...but at least the members are trying to come up with an answer....hopefully we can come to some conclusion that EVERYONE is happy with!
Maybe!
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11/10/2007 03:30:56 PM · #178 |
Originally posted by Judi:
Originally posted by biteme:
ok. that's right. hmm.
pfff. this is a tough thing. |
Yes...but at least the members are trying to come up with an answer....hopefully we can come to some conclusion that EVERYONE is happy with!
Maybe! |
It's a good thing that the members can try to come up with a solution. Better then letting the SC decide and BAM that's it, no changes possible, we have the power.
What's that called? |
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11/10/2007 03:31:43 PM · #179 |
Originally posted by biteme:
Originally posted by Judi:
Originally posted by biteme:
ok. that's right. hmm.
pfff. this is a tough thing. |
Yes...but at least the members are trying to come up with an answer....hopefully we can come to some conclusion that EVERYONE is happy with!
Maybe! |
It's a good thing that the members can try to come up with a solution. Better then letting the SC decide and BAM that's it, no changes possible, we have the power.
What's that called? |
anarchy! |
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11/10/2007 03:33:04 PM · #180 |
Originally posted by formerlee:
Originally posted by biteme:
Originally posted by Judi:
Originally posted by biteme:
ok. that's right. hmm.
pfff. this is a tough thing. |
Yes...but at least the members are trying to come up with an answer....hopefully we can come to some conclusion that EVERYONE is happy with!
Maybe! |
It's a good thing that the members can try to come up with a solution. Better then letting the SC decide and BAM that's it, no changes possible, we have the power.
What's that called? |
anarchy! |
Oh, I didn't know that.
Well, THAT! ;-) |
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11/10/2007 03:38:25 PM · #181 |
But the most important thing is that the members are trying to work in with the SC. To make it a suitable process all around.
One can only hope this will work out in the end.
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11/10/2007 03:42:48 PM · #182 |
I have been following this thread and trying to come up with an idea that could help eradicate the problem.
The way I see it is 500+ entries per FS, a daunting prospect for voting. Split challenges in the four levels from Minimal to Expert has its merits and may well be worth pursuing.
Rewarding voters with virtual star rankings, as per eBay, is a good kudos earner.
Getting rid of FS? Judging by the number of quality entries each time, this would cause an uproar. Questions would be asked why just FS should be dropped and not other challenges.
Limiting entries has been suggested, but this was covered in my earlier post.
Qualifying for entry but some means to be discussed is possible, ie, votes given outnumbers votes recieved etc.
Or, perhaps regional FS could work, where US has FS, next Europe, next Asia, then Australiasia. Or as was suggested earlier, FS divided in groups - Landscape, Macro etc instead of by PP levels.
Just my summing up of thread so far:) |
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11/10/2007 04:06:37 PM · #183 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
I'm more than a little surprised at all the gnashing of teeth, pulling of hair, etc., over a problem that at worst doesn't exist, and at best is ill-defined.
What's the real issue? Too many entries, or too few votes? |
As has been posted countless times in this thread alone, the clearly described problem is that there are too many entries in the free studies making voting on them a chore. Your opinion that voting through them is enjoyable is certainly in the minority here, though a site poll would be a great way to test the waters. |
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11/10/2007 04:09:28 PM · #184 |
Ok.... let me comment from MY point of view. ;)
I do not have a great deal of time to vote... as anyone who can see how many votes I have actually participated in can easily see. But, When I do have a few moments to spend on the site, I usually go to the Challenges with the lowest amount of entries first. Two reasons...
1)20% of 500 entries is 100. If I don't have the time to look (really look!) at the pictures, I won't vote anyway but with that many needed to count my votes, the smaller Challenges are more within the realm of my actually completing.
2)With the smaller challenges, for some reason only known to the varied idiosyncrasies of my addled brain, I am more apt to vote on ALL of the entries. Something about getting on a roll or something.
I do heartily agree with Judi that some separation... whether it be by editing levels (although I think this would only decrease the amount of the expert and maybe advanced entries) in order to bring the levels of entries to a point where more people will vote.
Myself... I think maybe having 2-week free studies might bring the numbers down a bit. Maybe by also giving the FS a direction, a very BROAD general direction would also make it more fun. Directions like... people ...just people. Not old people, or babies, or happy people, or sexy people. Just people. The Free study aspect would remain but then we wouldn't have pretty sunset pictures necessarily competing with Intricate architectural pictures, macros of insects, or another picture of a flowering petunia. Unless of course there was a "people" in the picture. :)
I haven't entered a Free Study myself yet. Many reasons but the main two are that I haven't taken a picture yet (with my digital) that I thought could actually compete with the top 100 entries. But also because being 'expert editing', I am far from understanding the post-proc side of it. I have bought books on Photoshop, read all of the tutorials a dozen times, and played around. Still have a hard time doing anything nice with the little knowledge I have accumulated. I got a wonderful suggestion of Adobe Lightroom from a very talented lady the other day and now have it. Nice... but now I have 2 programs I don't completely understand!
In a helluva lot less words... let's not get rid of the Free Studies...just change them a little. The free studies are the most creative of all of the challenges.
Sit back, close your eyes and have a beer. I am done! You may now re-enter the lifestream.
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11/10/2007 06:19:08 PM · #185 |
Well, changing the free study won't solve the problem... for me, when I open the front page and see 6 (!) challenges to vote on. Well, guess what? I kind of lose interest.
So, encourage voting, but then you get voting with no comments and people will complain that there aren't enough comments.
Then you encourage comments, but people complains that the comments aren't meaningful.
What is a DPCer to do?
Find a creative way to encourage voting. Really, at the end of the day, we as a community need to buck up, and do our part as part of the community. How many paying members are there here anyhow?
But changing the Free Study will do alot of nothing about the voting problem.
Ok, off to vote on some challenge (but not "Popcorn"...)
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11/10/2007 06:26:54 PM · #186 |
I know I've posted this a thousand posts ago...
Why not limit the number of entries and close submissions after a certain quota has been reached? Who wants to go through 500 - 800 images per challenge? |
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11/10/2007 06:32:49 PM · #187 |
| I love Free Studies, and I vote them all. Keep the Free Studies! |
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11/10/2007 06:39:08 PM · #188 |
Originally posted by routerguy666:
Originally posted by kirbic:
I'm more than a little surprised at all the gnashing of teeth, pulling of hair, etc., over a problem that at worst doesn't exist, and at best is ill-defined.
What's the real issue? Too many entries, or too few votes? |
As has been posted countless times in this thread alone, the clearly described problem is that there are too many entries in the free studies making voting on them a chore. Your opinion that voting through them is enjoyable is certainly in the minority here, though a site poll would be a great way to test the waters. |
Ah, I see now, posting it countless times makes it true??
Yes, it's been described as a problem, but...
- No one has to vote all the images if they don't wish to
- The random presentation ensures that the votes are evenly distributed (unless too many cherry-pick, which has not been the case)
We therefore have a problem that's not really a problem. The root of the concern is that images aren't getting enough votes. That's not the same problem at all, and solutions to your stated "problem" won't necessarily address the real issue. What *will* address the real issue is encouraging existing voters to vote more, and/or increasing the voter pool.
Remember, we've tried limiting the number of entries by splitting up challenges, and all in all it has not increased voting.
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11/10/2007 06:39:52 PM · #189 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
I love Free Studies, and I vote them all. Keep the Free Studies! |
Yep!
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11/10/2007 06:59:11 PM · #190 |
This is odd having essentially the same subject in two places, but here goes. What about the idea of splitting the Free Studies (or even other large challenges) when the submissions close. Eg: 700 entries get automatically (and randomly) split into 5 groups, or whatever division will bring the total to near 100 (or pick a number) - Free Study 2007-11A, Free Study 2007-11B, etc. That way it brings the entries and entries to vote on right down for each 'group'. Winners from all groups get posted equally on the front page (there's plenty of room).
? |
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11/10/2007 07:24:06 PM · #191 |
I still think that giving 2 weeks for voting and maybe lifting the minimum number of entries to vote on to 30 or 40%. That way with the random listing of the entries to vote on, more people have a chance of getting a vote from more voters, make sense?? JMHO
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11/10/2007 07:28:01 PM · #192 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
I know I've posted this a thousand posts ago...
Why not limit the number of entries and close submissions after a certain quota has been reached? Who wants to go through 500 - 800 images per challenge? |
you know I thought you were being funny...
ahhh, the race to get in, then simply upload a new file and stay in...with a site this competitive I would be very wary of trying your idea...(mark this down as the first post where I didn't agree with you)... |
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11/10/2007 07:29:12 PM · #193 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
I love Free Studies, and I vote them all. Keep the Free Studies! |
yeah sure but then you go and skip the big Halloween challenge ya slug! |
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11/10/2007 07:41:35 PM · #194 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
I love Free Studies .... Keep the Free Studies! |
I so agree! |
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11/10/2007 07:55:10 PM · #195 |
Originally posted by bucket:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
I know I've posted this a thousand posts ago...
Why not limit the number of entries and close submissions after a certain quota has been reached? Who wants to go through 500 - 800 images per challenge? |
you know I thought you were being funny...
ahhh, the race to get in, then simply upload a new file and stay in...with a site this competitive I would be very wary of trying your idea...(mark this down as the first post where I didn't agree with you)... |
Nah. Just enter (upload one file as always) and you're in.
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11/10/2007 07:55:38 PM · #196 |
Originally posted by ursula:
Originally posted by posthumous:
I love Free Studies .... Keep the Free Studies! |
I so agree! |
As do I. |
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11/10/2007 08:09:28 PM · #197 |
Originally posted by zeuszen:
Originally posted by bucket:
Originally posted by zeuszen:
I know I've posted this a thousand posts ago...
Why not limit the number of entries and close submissions after a certain quota has been reached? Who wants to go through 500 - 800 images per challenge? |
you know I thought you were being funny...
ahhh, the race to get in, then simply upload a new file and stay in...with a site this competitive I would be very wary of trying your idea...(mark this down as the first post where I didn't agree with you)... |
Nah. Just enter (upload one file as always) and you're in. |
yeah but you can update your file... |
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11/10/2007 09:50:47 PM · #198 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Yes, it's been described as a problem, but...
...
We therefore have a problem that's not really a problem. |
So people can tell you they don't like something and tell you what change could be made to change their opinion, and your response is that their dislike is nonexistent and they are wrong.
Obstinance bordering on insanity.
Read this:
There are too many damn images in the Free Study's. I want a reasonable number of images per challenge to vote on. I don't want to vote on the first 20% that come my way. I want less images in the challenge. Period. Thanks. |
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11/10/2007 10:01:13 PM · #199 |
Originally posted by routerguy666:
So people can tell you they don't like something and tell you what change could be made to change their opinion, and your response is that their dislike is nonexistent and they are wrong.
Read this:
There are too many damn images in the Free Study's. I want a reasonable number of images per challenge to vote on. I don't want to vote on the first 20% that come my way. I want less images in the challenge. Period. Thanks. |
Your concern and suggestion has been heard, noted, and understood. Please understand that a very vocal minority is not the same thing as a majority. This does not mean that your opinion won't be considered, or even that no changes will be made. It simply means that your point is made and understood, and that it may be best to avoid repeating oneself too much, in the interest of allowing others to have their opinions heard as well.
Also, please remember that "assume good faith" applies even when the other party is a member of Site Council.
Thanks,
~Terry
Message edited by author 2007-11-10 22:03:39.
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11/10/2007 10:15:03 PM · #200 |
In the For What It's Worth category, I voted all but 7 images in the last free study and commented on 26% of 'em. And this is while hanging out in Afghanistan with limited computer time and VERY slow access. Why? Because if I enter a challenge, I feel it is only fair to do my part. I must be an exception.
If we go to a tiered system, I'll concentrate on the "cut" images rather than the contenders. There are plenty of people who will want to vote on the contenders. |
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