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11/06/2007 08:12:27 PM · #51 |
Just for giggles, I once posted to the game thread of post your fav from the one above you. Well, I thought you had to go to "who's online" look through their shots and post - well I was told very quickly - "where did you find this photo? ...this is not how the game is palyed!" Haven't played much since.
Originally posted by jhonan:
Regarding new members being 'picked on'. Whenever I'm thinking about joining a new forum, I lurk for a few days reading old threads, finding out who's who. After that, if I've got a question I'd like to post, I generally search around the forum first. There's no way I'd join a forum and post a newbie question out of the blue. 9 times out of 10 you're going to irritate the regulars, or at least get some smart replies. |
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11/06/2007 08:22:02 PM · #52 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
Regarding new members being 'picked on'. Whenever I'm thinking about joining a new forum, I lurk for a few days reading old threads, finding out who's who. After that, if I've got a question I'd like to post, I generally search around the forum first. There's no way I'd join a forum and post a newbie question out of the blue. 9 times out of 10 you're going to irritate the regulars, or at least get some smart replies. |
I kind of know what you mean and where you're coming from. I'm comfortable here at DPC and feel like I know my way around, so to speak. Recently I've registered at dyxum.com to use their forums (Sony/Minolta based community) and I have to say before I made my first post I looked around some and searched out my questions before posting them. I felt like that was the right thing to do, rather than barging in as a "newbie" and just tossing things out there.
That being said, I can also understand having some leeway and patience overall with "newbies" when they ask that question that we've seen a 100 times. Although a gentle nudge ("hey - we've got a DPC search tool") isn't uncalled for either. :-P |
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11/06/2007 08:29:25 PM · #53 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
a gentle nudge ("hey - we've got a DPC search tool") isn't uncalled for either. :-P |
Absolutely! But it's "here's a place to start, and BTW, we have a decent search tool" as opposed to "search the forums, noob - duh."
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11/06/2007 08:32:13 PM · #54 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
a gentle nudge ("hey - we've got a DPC search tool") isn't uncalled for either. :-P |
Absolutely! But it's "here's a place to start, and BTW, we have a decent search tool" as opposed to "search the forums, noob - duh." |
You don't happen to live in DC do you? :-D Mr. Politically Correct, you. ;-) |
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11/06/2007 08:34:37 PM · #55 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by jhonan:
Regarding new members being 'picked on'. Whenever I'm thinking about joining a new forum, I lurk for a few days reading old threads, finding out who's who. After that, if I've got a question I'd like to post, I generally search around the forum first. There's no way I'd join a forum and post a newbie question out of the blue. 9 times out of 10 you're going to irritate the regulars, or at least get some smart replies. |
I kind of know what you mean and where you're coming from. I'm comfortable here at DPC and feel like I know my way around, so to speak. Recently I've registered at dyxum.com to use their forums (Sony/Minolta based community) and I have to say before I made my first post I looked around some and searched out my questions before posting them. I felt like that was the right thing to do, rather than barging in as a "newbie" and just tossing things out there.
That being said, I can also understand having some leeway and patience overall with "newbies" when they ask that question that we've seen a 100 times. Although a gentle nudge ("hey - we've got a DPC search tool") isn't uncalled for either. :-P |
I do not have much idea about dyxum, but I have been visiting dpreview for a long time. I can say that DPC is very very friendly and helpful compared to these sites. People really do help each other. About newbies, I think it might take a little while for them to get used to this site. But once they know, they would enjoy being here.
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11/06/2007 08:39:14 PM · #56 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
I can say that DPC is very very friendly and helpful compared to these sites. |
Absolutely! - I'm on loads of forums, and DPC has to be the softest one on the internet :-p I've seen people get ripped to shreds on dpreview.
edit: did I just say 'absolutely!' ?
Message edited by author 2007-11-06 20:39:41. |
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11/06/2007 08:48:58 PM · #57 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by levyj413:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
a gentle nudge ("hey - we've got a DPC search tool") isn't uncalled for either. :-P |
Absolutely! But it's "here's a place to start, and BTW, we have a decent search tool" as opposed to "search the forums, noob - duh." |
You don't happen to live in DC do you? :-D Mr. Politically Correct, you. ;-) |
Wow. I agree with you and clarify further, and your response is that I'm being PC (never mind how being sensitive to others' feelings somehow became a bad thing)? I must be missing something, but it's been a long day and I'm tired. Shrug.
Message edited by author 2007-11-06 20:52:05.
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11/06/2007 09:13:49 PM · #58 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
...About newbies, I think it might take a little while for them to get used to this site. But once they know, they would enjoy being here. |
And if they don't stick around long enough to "get used to" it...? |
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11/06/2007 09:15:25 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by zxaar:
I can say that DPC is very very friendly and helpful compared to these sites. |
Absolutely! - I'm on loads of forums, and DPC has to be the softest one on the internet :-p I've seen people get ripped to shreds on dpreview.
edit: did I just say 'absolutely!' ? |
Rudeness and crudeness on other sites does not grant license to be rude and crude elsewhere.... especially here on a site with a large membership of quality photographers. |
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11/06/2007 09:23:17 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by levyj413:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
a gentle nudge ("hey - we've got a DPC search tool") isn't uncalled for either. :-P |
Absolutely! But it's "here's a place to start, and BTW, we have a decent search tool" as opposed to "search the forums, noob - duh." |
You don't happen to live in DC do you? :-D Mr. Politically Correct, you. ;-) |
Wow. I agree with you and clarify further, and your response is that I'm being PC (never mind how being sensitive to others' feelings somehow became a bad thing)? I must be missing something, but it's been a long day and I'm tired. Shrug. |
Sometimes words in plain text just don't do the job. I should have put a few more smilies in there. :-D Didn't intend to imply PC was a bad thing (didn't realize it could be construed that way). It's cool - we're all cool - ok? :-) |
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11/06/2007 09:31:35 PM · #61 |
Originally posted by KaDi:
Originally posted by zxaar:
...About newbies, I think it might take a little while for them to get used to this site. But once they know, they would enjoy being here. |
And if they don't stick around long enough to "get used to" it...? |
If they do not stick around long enough, I would say its their loss.
If you are here to learn, you got to be little patient and clever.
I remember some time ago a newbie left the site saying that people here are rude and all.
You know what she only read the responses those she found rude, there are people who keep silent. And they are in pretty large numbers compared to rude responses she got. She was not clever to understand this fact, so she left. And I would say it was her loss, since she could have learned from here.
Base your thinking upon half facts and you get misjudgement.
I am here for around 2 years now, and the only comment that I found offensive so far was comment made by [REDACTED] in thread related to joey's DVD. ([REDACTED] is considered a polite guy at DPC i guess).
So it all depends on which things you base your opinion on.
Message edited by L2 - Edited to remove username. |
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11/06/2007 09:33:37 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by hahn23:
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by zxaar:
I can say that DPC is very very friendly and helpful compared to these sites. |
Absolutely! - I'm on loads of forums, and DPC has to be the softest one on the internet :-p I've seen people get ripped to shreds on dpreview.
edit: did I just say 'absolutely!' ? |
Rudeness and crudeness on other sites does not grant license to be rude and crude elsewhere.... especially here on a site with a large membership of quality photographers. |
Nobody ever said this. I am not sure how you made this conclusion. But to each person, the thing they consider rude varies. So when in public sometimes you need little bit more thick skin than you do at your home. |
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11/06/2007 09:45:21 PM · #63 |
I joined DPC because of the pictures. But then decided to leave the challenges to those that have the time, energy and talent to create them. But it was the social side that kept me here. But lately, it does seem that there has been more of a edge on things here. To be honest though, I've seen it coming from both the top as well as the common folk. I've seen threads locked for no apparent reason by one SC member when there were other SC members particapating in the thread (and appearing to be having a good time). But I have seen some of the members getting a bite to their jokes and comments as well. For the most part though, a lot of what I see are people that have been around each other long enough to be able to be a bit more familiar amoung themselves than someone that is fairly knew might be comfortable with.
As for newbie questions... what some people are over looking is that many questions are asked, not because the person really needs an answer, but they are trying to fit in, be noticed and be a part of the group around them. What's the first thing that is usually said when ever you walk into a room of strange people? Usually "How's it going?". Well, with some newbies, asking a question or making what some call "dumb" remarks, is their way of coming in amoung a bunch of strangers and asking "How's it going?". In real life this can some times lead to a conversation. Once a conversation starts, then you can get to know the people. So if you tell newbies to go use the search feature, or don't ask the same question for the 750th time, or sit back and just watch until you know something... well, that's a conversation that will never start and a person that will never feel a part of DPC. And as happens more times than not, a person that DPC loses.
I've been around forums about 10 years longer than there has been an internet and I no longer need to ask the dumb questions... I already know all the dumb answers. So I can come into a forum and pretty much size it up from what I read. Usually what I try to learn is who talks straight and who's always blowing smoke. Sometimes it's not so obvious.
Maybe the only dumb questions is the one that gets asked, but everyone is entitled to a few... at least at the beginning. After that they are fair game. ;)
Mike
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11/06/2007 09:51:17 PM · #64 |
guess this old pic still holds water ;)
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11/06/2007 10:07:01 PM · #65 |
Originally posted by jhonan:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by jhonan:
There's no way I'd join a forum and post a newbie question out of the blue. 9 times out of 10 you're going to irritate the regulars, or at least get some smart replies. |
DPC has traditionally been the other 1, and we'd like to get back to that. |
My point was that proper etiquette should be met with proper civility. |
Turning that around 180°, proper civility usually promotes proper etiquette.
The classic example I typically use to illustrate this is the well-meaning new user who makes his first post using ALL CAPS. The example is a bit dated because it rarely happens any more (it was frequent in the 90's), but I still use it because it illustrates the point well. Now most if not all of us know that all caps is considered the equivalent of shouting, but every once in a while someone would log on to the Internet for the first time, and post in call caps, not having the slightest idea that it was considered shouting.
Responses along the lines of "STOP SHOUTING!!!!" were common from people, but do little to solve the problem. The new user isn't shouting, and has no idea why they're being accused of it. It puts them on the defensive, assumes malice on the part of the new user, and generally creates bad blood all around.
A far more effective way of dealing with the issue was to welcome the person, answer their new post, and follow the response with something like, "By the way, I couldn't help but notice that your post was typed in all capital letters. Since you're new, you probably just weren't aware of this, but all caps is generally considered the equivalent of shouting, and is also harder to read. If you wouldn't mind turning off your caps lock key when posting in the future, it will make it easier for us to read and reply to your posts. Thanks!"
Though it takes a little longer to type, the posts like that are almost always well-received by the new user. Rather than putting them on the defensive, it makes them feel like the experienced users are welcoming them and trying to help them fit in.
When in doubt, the report post button is always there for you to use. Please don't feel like you're "getting someone in trouble" by using it. We're well aware that most forum rule violations come from users either not being aware of a rule, or not being aware that it applies to a particular situation. We will do our best to provide guidance and encourage civility in a positive and non-threatening manner. Most of the time, a friendly note to the user (not much different than the example I posted above, really) is all that it takes to correct a problem.
I apologize for rambling, but I guess my point is that those of us who are experienced on the 'net are well aware of how forums work, and know enough to lurk before posting because we've made the mistake of jumping in too quickly on a hostile forum (or Usenet newsgroup, if you go back that far) and getting smacked around before. As hard as it can be to believe in 2007, there are still people getting on the Internet for the first time, or at least those using forums for the first time. If their first foray is at DPC (or even if this isn't their first foray), we'd like it to be a welcoming experience, rather than a hazing ritual.
~Terry
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11/06/2007 10:11:54 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
About newbies, I think it might take a little while for them to get used to this site. But once they know, they would enjoy being here. |
We agree. All we're asking is for people to welcome them into the community and help them become part of it.
~Terry
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11/06/2007 10:14:31 PM · #67 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Didn't intend to imply PC was a bad thing (didn't realize it could be construed that way). It's cool - we're all cool - ok? :-) |
First, yeah, we're cool. :) As I said, I'm tired and was sure I missed something.
For future reference, I think "PC" is an insult created by people who accuse others of going too far in their sensitivity to others' feelings.
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11/06/2007 10:16:12 PM · #68 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
I am here for around 2 years now, and the only comment that I found offensive so far was comment made by [REDACTED] in thread related to joey's DVD. ([REDACTED] is considered a polite guy at DPC i guess).
So it all depends on which things you base your opinion on. |
Glad to know that people actually do read what I post.
Well I am posting just to say that it was 7th nov I joined this site, so today I finished exactly two years here. |
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11/06/2007 10:33:08 PM · #69 |
Originally posted by MikeJ:
I joined DPC because of the pictures. But then decided to leave the challenges to those that have the time, energy and talent to create them. But it was the social side that kept me here. But lately, it does seem that there has been more of a edge on things here. To be honest though, I've seen it coming from both the top as well as the common folk. I've seen threads locked for no apparent reason by one SC member when there were other SC members particapating in the thread (and appearing to be having a good time). But I have seen some of the members getting a bite to their jokes and comments as well. For the most part though, a lot of what I see are people that have been around each other long enough to be able to be a bit more familiar amoung themselves than someone that is fairly knew might be comfortable with. |
Without specific examples, all I can tell you is that we are human, and we do make occasional errors in judgment. If you believe we've erred, feel free to use the report post feature or the contact page to ask us about it. Though there is no "pecking order" like you asked about yesterday, each of us individually is subordinate to the group as a whole. We all recognize that we make occasional mistakes, we all understand that occasional, good-faith actions we take individually will be reversed by other Site Council members, and we're not shy about doing that when it needs to be done. I can't promise that we'll never make mistakes, but if you're confused as to why a thread was locked or a post of yours was edited, let us know. If there's a mistake, we'll correct it; if there's not, we'll help you to better understand our rationale.
Originally posted by MikeJ:
As for newbie questions... what some people are over looking is that many questions are asked, not because the person really needs an answer, but they are trying to fit in, be noticed and be a part of the group around them. What's the first thing that is usually said when ever you walk into a room of strange people? Usually "How's it going?". Well, with some newbies, asking a question or making what some call "dumb" remarks, is their way of coming in amoung a bunch of strangers and asking "How's it going?". In real life this can some times lead to a conversation. Once a conversation starts, then you can get to know the people. So if you tell newbies to go use the search feature, or don't ask the same question for the 750th time, or sit back and just watch until you know something... well, that's a conversation that will never start and a person that will never feel a part of DPC. And as happens more times than not, a person that DPC loses.
I've been around forums about 10 years longer than there has been an internet and I no longer need to ask the dumb questions... I already know all the dumb answers. So I can come into a forum and pretty much size it up from what I read. Usually what I try to learn is who talks straight and who's always blowing smoke. Sometimes it's not so obvious.
Maybe the only dumb questions is the one that gets asked, but everyone is entitled to a few... at least at the beginning. After that they are fair game. ;)
Mike |
Well-said.
~Terry
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11/06/2007 10:34:20 PM · #70 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
For future reference, I think "PC" is an insult created by people who accuse others of going too far in their sensitivity to others' feelings. |
And here I thought "PC" was this thing I'm typing on! Silly me! :-þ
~Terry
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11/06/2007 10:35:09 PM · #71 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
Well I am posting just to say that it was 7th nov I joined this site, so today I finished exactly two years here. |
Happy DPCversary!
~Terry
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11/06/2007 10:45:41 PM · #72 |
Originally posted by zxaar:
If they do not stick around long enough, I would say its their loss. |
Perhaps, but it's our loss too.
Remember that, to name a few,  scalvert,  kiwiness and  Anastasia,  muckpond,  Ursula, Skip, Brad, Bear_Music, levyj413, and everyone else who has ever taught us anything was once a newbie here.
Except  mk. The mk was never a newbie. DPC just formed around her.
That aside, my point is that when we beat someone up for their seemingly "dumb" question, rehashed-to-death suggestion, or seemingly bad idea, we never know what they may have had to teach us.
~Terry
Message edited by scalvert - Fixed a couple of links. |
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11/06/2007 10:52:50 PM · #73 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
levyj413[/user], and everyone else who has ever taught us anything was once a newbie here.
~Terry |
Holy cow! I'm stunned and really, REALLY complimented that you put me in that crowd.
FWIW, there are PLENTY of areas I'm still a total newb at. Artificial light sources, for example. A strobe is still this cool thing they have at dance clubs as far as I'm concerned. ;)
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11/06/2007 10:58:24 PM · #74 |
If I'm not mistaken, scalvert actually joined here to ask a question about his camera.
Wait a minute!
Is that an argument for being polite or for being rude? |
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11/06/2007 11:22:29 PM · #75 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
Originally posted by zxaar:
If they do not stick around long enough, I would say its their loss. |
Perhaps, but it's our loss too.
Remember that, to name a few, scalvert, kiwiness and Anastasia, muckpond, Ursula, Skip, Brad, Bear_Music, levyj413, and everyone else who has ever taught us anything was once a newbie here.
Except mk. The mk was never a newbie. DPC just formed around her.
That aside, my point is that when we beat someone up for their seemingly "dumb" question, rehashed-to-death suggestion, or seemingly bad idea, we never know what they may have had to teach us.
~Terry |
Humm, I agree on this part. But still people need to be patient, specially when you join some place newly.
ps: levyj413 you are helpful person. I remember once you pmed me links of photoshop tuts, because I said in forum that I do not know photoshop well. Thanks for it, an unhelpful person does not do it.
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