Which RAW workflow software? - DPChallenge Forums

Tomioka 55mm f/1.4 in M42 Mount

10/29/2007 02:40:42 PM · #1

This has been driving me nuts! - When I was shooting JPG I was quite happy with the Picasa-PS combination. But now RAW has complicated things a bit. So I've been trying out various RAW conversion and photo cataloging s/w.

Nikon Capture NX - Great at RAW conversion, decodes camera WB setting correctly. But I don't like the way it 'imports' files

ViewNX - Nikon's effort at cataloging software. Only does very basic RAW adjustments/conversion.

Adobe Lightroom - Seems to be the industry standard. Slow performance. I noticed some artifacts on RAW conversions. I hate the UI. And (like Capture NX) I don't like the way it imports files and keeps them in it's own directory structure.

ACDSee Pro 2 - I love it! RAW Conversion, editing, sharpening, noise removal, clone brush etc. And really good cataloging functions. Fast too. However... It doesn't decode WB setting and I spotted some RAW conversion artifacts.

FastStone - Free! Good/fast at cataloging and previews (although a bit basic at tagging) However, very basic editing functions (mainly crop/resize) and no RAW editing functions.

SilkyPix - RAW editing, but limited cataloging functions, mainly directory thumbnail previews. Although it scans and previews very quickly and the RAW editing features are superb. It decodes the Nikon WB setting accurately, and I didn't see any artifacts in the conversions. (The final images really do look very good) Pity it doesn't have a clone brush.

So, basically what I want is: The speed and cataloging features of ACDSee Pro 2 or FastStone, combined with the conversion quality, sharpness and noise reduction features of SilkyPix. It'd be really nice to get excellent performance and cataloging, good quality raw conversion, and photo editing (e.g. clone brush, selective tone adjustment) all in one package.

Has anyone out there found the perfect workflow software combination? Are there any I'm missing?

Gabriel

Pentax K7

10/29/2007 02:59:48 PM · #2

Well, you are missing the Mac-only (Aperture), and the outsiders (LightZone, Bibble)

PlayWithFire

Nikon D70s

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G IF-ED

10/29/2007 03:16:11 PM · #3

I use Adobe Lightroom, and out of the things i tried, i actually love the interface on it. As a matter of fact, it's one of the best, and most intuitive I've seen on a piece of software. I've never noticed artifacts, so i am not sure what you are talking about. As for importing, you can change the options, i got it to import all the photos into one folder, or have them get split up by dates.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

10/29/2007 03:42:21 PM · #4

You are also missing the main option, which would be Photoshop/ Adobe Camera Raw.

I use lightroom pretty much exclusively now. I find the interface the most streamlined and easy to use out there, particularly all of the 'working directly on the image' options for creating B&W or saturation/ hue changes where you just click and drag on the colours in the picture to change them.

Also, you can just ignore any and all of the import files/ change directory features - I do all that before I get to lightroom and have it set up just to work from where the files are. It is slow on an older computer though and it certainly sucks up a lot of RAM.

pawdrix

Nikon D700

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

10/29/2007 03:49:37 PM · #5

I have Nikon Capture, Phase One Capture One, you name it...plus a few others which put me off of RAW conversion unless I absolutely had to go through the process.

I just got Lightroom a month ago and actually look forward to using it. Quite the opposite from my previous experiences.

10/29/2007 04:30:04 PM · #6

Originally posted by PlayWithFire:

I've never noticed artifacts, so i am not sure what you are talking about.

For my testing process, I got into quite a bit of pixel peeping - I'm analytical like that! :) We're talking 100% crops enlarged 200% type thing. And what I noticed was that most of the RAW converters had two problems with NEF (Nikon RAW) files;

1) They can't decode the in-camera WB setting correctly. e.g. If you shoot in 'cloudy' WB mode, the chances are your conversion software will revert back to 'auto' or give a best guess at the white balance

2) RED pixels! - For some reason, NEF RAW converters have a problem with demosaicing saturated red colours, especially on edges where the red contrasts against black or blue. The effect I have seen (again, talking 100% crops) are 'hot' red pixels, or jagged edges along red sections. In fact, I first saw this effect happening in Lightroom, it was the reason I started looking at other RAW software to see if they had the same problem.

The only RAW converters which don't have either of these issues are the Nikon software, and SilkyPix. PS3/ACR does nice conversion without artifacts, but it loses the WB info.

Originally posted by Gordon:

You are also missing the main option, which would be Photoshop/ Adobe Camera Raw.

Leroy tested an RAW conversion for me on PS3/ACR, and the quality is good (although WB info is lost). But I'm currently using PS CS, which I'm happy with and I'm reluctant to spend money upgrading to CS3, so I was looking at the cheaper options (budget does play a part in this decision!)

Originally posted by Gabriel:

Well, you are missing the Mac-only (Aperture), and the outsiders (LightZone, Bibble)

I should've mentioned, this is for PC-only. I did try Bibble at one stage, can't remember what I didn't like about it. Oh yeah, and I tried DxO as well, but found it unintuitive (you can only see certain adjustments after you've developed the image)

I can't believe there aren't more SilkyPix users on DPC! - I keep going back to it to compare converted images, and it does a really nice job.

10/29/2007 05:00:21 PM · #7

Originally posted by jhonan:

I can't believe there aren't more SilkyPix users on DPC! - I keep going back to it to compare converted images, and it does a really nice job.

Thanks for the tip. I've checked their website and unfortunately, it doesn't look like the new Sony A700 is supported yet. I've sent a note to SilkyPix support to see if/when that will be updated.

Message edited by author 2007-10-29 17:09:03.

klkitchens

Pentax K-1

Pentax FA 50mm f/1.4 AF

10/29/2007 05:02:25 PM · #8

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by jhonan:
I can't believe there aren't more SilkyPix users on DPC! - I keep going back to it to compare converted images, and it does a really nice job.

Thanks for the tip. I've checked their website and unfortunately, it doesn't look like the new Sony A700 is not supported yet. I've sent a note to SilkyPix support to see if/when that will be updated.

So you asked them to NOT support the Sony A700? :)

Since it doesn't look like it's not supported yet.

10/29/2007 05:08:48 PM · #9

Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by jhonan:
I can't believe there aren't more SilkyPix users on DPC! - I keep going back to it to compare converted images, and it does a really nice job.

Thanks for the tip. I've checked their website and unfortunately, it doesn't look like the new Sony A700 is supported yet. I've sent a note to SilkyPix support to see if/when that will be updated.

So you asked them to NOT support the Sony A700? :)

Since it doesn't look like it's not supported yet.

:-) He-he. I thought I had edited that "not" out of there.

Fisher Price Kid-Tough Digital

10/29/2007 05:21:27 PM · #10

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by jhonan:
I can't believe there aren't more SilkyPix users on DPC! - I keep going back to it to compare converted images, and it does a really nice job.

Thanks for the tip. I've checked their website and unfortunately, it doesn't look like the new Sony A700 is supported yet. I've sent a note to SilkyPix support to see if/when that will be updated.

Surprising, considering SilkyPix are a Japanese company. In fact, the SilkyPix UI has some fairly quirky English translations!

Gnarf

10/29/2007 05:27:51 PM · #11

Pixmantec RawShooter
It was bought up by adobe i belive. But i will use it over Lightroom any time. Much faster and it does what you need from a raw converter, not 1000 other things.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 12-24mm f/4.0G IF-ED

10/29/2007 11:05:08 PM · #12

Originally posted by Gabriel:

Well, you are missing the Mac-only (Aperture), and the outsiders (LightZone, Bibble)

I've spent a few hours trying LightZone. It's excellent! - the images are on a par with SilkyPix, but the main selling point is the intuitive editing method (it uses a modified zone system), and the use of pre-defined styles.

It also uses a layer system similar to PS, so you can have the noise reduction layer on top of the sharpen layer on top of the clone layer on top of the hue/saturation layer, and you can disable/delete/move layers just like in Photoshop! Also, you can define selection regions and apply effects to just these regions.

It's a very powerful package. The catch? Performance. It's slow... There's nothing worse than dragging a slider and waiting while the image redraws.

jbsmithana

Nikon D300

10/29/2007 11:21:58 PM · #13

Originally posted by Gnarf:

Pixmantec RawShooter
It was bought up by adobe i belive. But i will use it over Lightroom any time. Much faster and it does what you need from a raw converter, not 1000 other things.

This is the fastest and most intuitive of them all. However, it is no longer available. I still use the RAW Shooter Premium version but it was in fact bought out by Adobe. They said to incorporate the technology into Lightroom but I think it was to eliminate what was becoming a very fierce competitor in the RAW editing market. They did award those of us who purchased the Premium edition a free copy of Lightroom but it is not near as simple, fast and elegant as RSE.

So bottom line is unless you want to find and use an unsupported program RAW Shooter is out.

Message edited by author 2007-10-29 23:23:25.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

10/30/2007 12:19:43 AM · #14

Originally posted by jhonan:

It's a very powerful package. The catch? Performance. It's slow... There's nothing worse than dragging a slider and waiting while the image redraws.

I think the painful fact might well be that it is your computer that's slow. I just downloaded lightzone and had a quick play around. It takes a small fraction of a second to update a raw image for each change I made. It is a bit slower than lightroom, which is basically instantaneous, but I wouldn't call either package slow.

I'm not using a very up to date or fast computer either, though I do have a couple of gig of RAM.

Makka

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

10/30/2007 03:04:18 AM · #15

I always loved using RawShooter Premium in the past but having just got Lightroom I'm learning to use it! Plus

-bec- just got a new 400D which RawShooter doesn't support so we had no choice! I love all the features but I find it annoyingly slow at times, but that could partly be my PC too!

fotomann_forever

10/30/2007 03:08:21 AM · #16

LR likes memory... 2 gigs on a duocore machine and it purrs like a perfectly purring kitten.

Makka

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

10/30/2007 03:15:34 AM · #17

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

LR likes memory... 2 gigs on a duocore machine and it purrs like a perfectly purring kitten.

Yup! That's what I need! Currently only running a Pentium 4 3.2Gh with 1.5 gig ram! An upgrade is on the cards soon though! :)

Fisher Price Kid-Tough Digital

10/30/2007 05:23:50 AM · #18

Originally posted by Gordon:

I'm not using a very up to date or fast computer either, though I do have a couple of gig of RAM.

Yeah, you could be right. I'm running a P4 3GHz, but it's only got 1Gb ram. So I think more memory is the answer.

Gnarf

10/30/2007 06:57:30 AM · #19

Does anyone know if Rawshooter supports the Canon 5D?

Simms

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

10/30/2007 07:46:21 AM · #20

Originally posted by Gnarf:

Does anyone know if Rawshooter supports the Canon 5D?

Yes, it does.. the very final version did at least.

option

Nikon D200

Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D

10/30/2007 02:03:54 PM · #21

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

LR likes memory... 2 gigs on a duocore machine and it purrs like a perfectly purring kitten.

RAM lover! Techno-dork!

Speaking of RAW converters... when does the new DxO come out? I'm not a big fan of the interface, but their new processing engine sounds extremely interesting...

Message edited by author 2007-10-30 14:05:17.

11/05/2007 06:49:15 PM · #22

If anyone is using Nikon ViewNX, be careful when adjusting RAW values (i.e. make sure you've saved the original NEF somewhere)

Most RAW editing software I've tried saves any adjustments in a sidecar file, so the original is untouched. However, ViewNX writes directly back to the NEF, therefore invalidating the file as an original for DPC validation purposes.

Incidentally, I'm hooked on the FastStone -> SilkyPix -> PS workflow combination at the moment. :-)

11/13/2007 09:41:52 AM · #23

Originally posted by jhonan:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by jhonan:
I can't believe there aren't more SilkyPix users on DPC! - I keep going back to it to compare converted images, and it does a really nice job.

Thanks for the tip. I've checked their website and unfortunately, it doesn't look like the new Sony A700 is supported yet. I've sent a note to SilkyPix support to see if/when that will be updated.

Surprising, considering SilkyPix are a Japanese company. In fact, the SilkyPix UI has some fairly quirky English translations!

SilkyPix has a new release out that supports the Sony A700; Ver.3.0.14.2 [Early Preview]

Just downloaded it and hope to check it out tonight. Some of the people over at Dyxum posted examples of A700 photos converted with SilkyPix vs Lightroom...amazing difference.

Glad I haven't opened the Lightroom software that just came in. Gives me the option to send it back if this SilkyPix works out. $300 vs $150. I have gotten quite spoiled by the LR interface during this 30 day trial however. :-/ Decisions, decisions...

11/14/2007 05:14:38 AM · #24

Originally posted by glad2badad:

SilkyPix has a new release out that supports the Sony A700; Ver.3.0.14.2 [Early Preview]

Ah, finally!

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Glad I haven't opened the Lightroom software that just came in. Gives me the option to send it back if this SilkyPix works out. $300 vs $150. I have gotten quite spoiled by the LR interface during this 30 day trial however. :-/ Decisions, decisions...

I hated the LR interface. The SilkyPix UI takes a bit of getting used to, but give it a chance. All the interesting adjustments are in the icons along the bottom. And as I said some of the English they use is strange, but it grows on you. I'm still using FastStone for sifting through images, and SilkyPix for editing/raw conversion/resizing/cropping and batch stuff. And sometimes PS for cloning and adding borders.

Beware, this decision is likely to drive you nuts! I reached a stage where I was comparing 400% crops from 4 different RAW converters pixel-by-pixel to see which one gave the 'best' results. To be fair to Lightroom, there's very little in the difference of conversion quality. LR handled certain types of images better than SilkyPix, and vice versa. Also Lightroom has better cataloging functions, which is why I'm using FastStone in conjunction with SilkyPix.

What I especially like about SilkyPix is the way it handles colour, noise and sharpness, and the presets. What makes me unsure about SilkyPix is that I seem to be the only person on DPC using it :) (But perhaps that isn't such a bad thing?) And, tbh, $150 versus $300 does come into play.

Let us know how you get on with it.