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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Suffering for Stupidity...garage art
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02/06/2004 01:02:43 PM · #1
Does any one voting low on garage art know what/where the word 'garage' comes from... from the french 'garer' a verb meaning 'to shelter'. So we have 'shelter' and we have 'art', which can be debated here forever (and has been, see other threads), I think most would agree this word is somewhat what you make it to be. Perhaps now many folks shelter their cars and tools in 'garages', but just because often interpretted this way does not mean HAS to be that way. Maybe this should be a rant, but I am tired of my shots being misunderstood, interpretted and assumed to be what they are not. Challenges are open to interpretation, yes?... art is a creative endeavour yes? I know we all love to see hundreds of cats shots, so no more creative interpretations please, the only allowed shots acceptable for ALL challenges must have a cat, dog, flower, baby, or bug macros are strictly too creative and I am sure wont fit the challenge.
I'm done now...sorry for offending you in advance.
02/06/2004 01:13:27 PM · #2
Hey,
you forgot water (drops) & sunsets! :)

I feel your pain! But I'm quite positive that folks don't look into the linguistic origins of words associated with challenge titles & words in the description. at least I know that I don't. Creativity seems to take a beating most often in the voting process but not always. Byshen's On the edge shot was very creative & evetually, after all the DQ's, won the blue ribbon.

I think that creativity works if folks don't have to think too much about it. Afterall, as many others have said, there is only so much time folks even look at a shot. Lots of us are not going to stare at a shot until we figure it out. We will look at it, get it or not get it, vote & then move on.

That said, there is far more joy in the process of taking a shot & loving it for what you have created from your own vision. At least, for me, far more than I can get from the voters.

I suggest two things to you my friend;
1. Continue as you are & take shots that please you & fulfill your own vision of what the challenges mean (I prefer this one BTW)
or
2. Do what most ribbon winners do (kiwiness, jsetzler, jj, etc...) & shoot shots that will pleasse the masses, i.e. the voters

Good luck with whatever you do!
02/06/2004 01:17:51 PM · #3
If you want to score well on a multi-cultural, diverse site such as this, you need to nail the challenge for the most common theme.

If you want to do interesting, arty stuff that might not be so on topic - great - good luck, but dont be surprised when a smaller number of people get it. No point complaining about it if you have to write several lines explaining the link to the challenge theme that the world didn't just get it in the 2 seconds they look at your picture from.

I've tried both the literal and the obtuse interpretations. My most dpc successful pictures have come from the most literal (my painting with light is a shining example of that) but some of my most satisfying shots have scored low.

DPC is a popularity contest for the most easily understood, highest impact images. It gets easier when you accept that fact...
02/06/2004 01:28:53 PM · #4
I'm not french. In FRANCE we have "shelter art" challenge. In my house, we have "park your car next to the toolbox, oil, lawnmower, tools, snowblower challenge".
02/06/2004 01:45:04 PM · #5
Originally posted by hbunch7187:

I'm not french. In FRANCE we have "shelter art" challenge. In my house, we have "park your car next to the toolbox, oil, lawnmower, tools, snowblower challenge".


Urm, Heather - the word was taken from the french language - just like the majority of English words were taken from a wide variety of other languages... this isn't a freedom fries issue.... Nobody is saying it should be a french challenge just that it would nice (but unlikely) if people would widen their horizons a touch when voting...

Message edited by author 2004-02-06 13:46:18.
02/06/2004 01:50:17 PM · #6
I'm not French either, but I appear to have some interest in the meaning and interpretation of words we use. Without such an interest, I fear, communication would suffer. I'd have to, in all fairness, refrain from some forms of communication altogether. After all, how could I expect to be taken seriously, if my speech is muddled?


02/06/2004 01:51:03 PM · #7
It's a tradeoff-- enter a pic you really like and risk being misunderstood, or tailor one close to the topic to score a little higher. Until I get my first 3 or 4 ribbons the competitive side of me seems to have it's foot on the neck of my creative instincts. Subject to change, of course.
02/06/2004 01:51:19 PM · #8
I was basically trying to say that I have no clue what the origin of the words is, and if I lived in france, I might, but I don't. If the origin is french, than people who know french might understand that view better and rate those photos higher. However, I know nothing about the french language or the origins of words, so my interpretation of Garage is pretty much like 95% of everyone else. (judging by the photos in the challenge).
02/06/2004 01:53:30 PM · #9
Originally posted by zeuszen:

I'm not French either, but I appear to have some interest in the meaning and interpretation of words we use. Without such an interest, I fear, communication would suffer. I'd have to, in all fairness, refrain from some forms of communication altogether. After all, how could I expect to be taken seriously, if my speech is muddled?


indubitably.
02/06/2004 01:56:13 PM · #10
Heather, you said it.

Just to add, I think judging folks as suffering from stupidity just bc we don;t know french and/or don;t analyse the origins of words is kinda harsh.

No one can know what is in the minds of the fotogs and expect others to see & understnd everything as we do. I don't we are stupid bc we don't yours or anyone else's shot.
02/06/2004 02:01:42 PM · #11
And for future challenges, we can look up the etymology of each word here.
02/06/2004 02:04:10 PM · #12
Wow, who knew the thread would go there....
True, most participants are not 'french' here, however most are sticklers for 'topicality'.
I think if you are going to slam people for 'topic' you should be quite sure what the 'topic' is. And that is my point..slam my shot for being PSed, but what if it is not?? Slam my shot for being off topic...but what if it is and you just don't know it is due to YOUR limited background...ect..

(p.s. this site is just for fun for me, but debate is fun too)

It is not that I am calling others stupid, more so when you vote a shot down for not being on topic the voter is calling the photographer so.

Message edited by author 2004-02-06 14:06:11.
02/06/2004 02:10:30 PM · #13
I don't consider myself the smartest person in the world, but my IQ is far above stupid. We all have opinions, just like you do. That is why our votes count. The most common opinions win.

Like Rooster said, if you liked the photo, then it was a great shot. You can't change my opinion by slamming my voting competence, nor can your gain much respect from such behavior. I have liked most of the shots I have submitted, but I am middle of the pack amongst the masses. Do I get mad, nah. I learn pretty fast about preferences though. I saw your profile, you have submitted quite a few entries, done very well on many in fact. I figure by now you might have figured out that there are differing opinions on this site...
02/06/2004 02:13:21 PM · #14
Originally posted by ellamay:

Maybe this should be a rant, but I am tired of my shots being misunderstood, interpretted and assumed to be what they are not. Challenges are open to interpretation, yes?... art is a creative endeavour yes?


*smile*

I agree with you and zeuszen - the origin, usage and context of words is pretty important. I'll go one step further and say our evolution has always and will continue to depend upon this more than any other single contrived aspect of our existence. Whether you do it on a conscious or subconscious level every time you communicate you are considering what a word "means".

But, on the topic..

I had someone tell me my shot was "way too complicated" which pretty well sums up the way that non mainstream photography or so-called artistic interpretive photography (or whatever we're calling it today) is sometimes viewed here (or anywhere).

Hypothesis:

Some people are more interested in the engineering of a photograph - the lighting and the exposure and the focal depth. They are interested in the way a thing was set up to achieve a particular illusion or impression. How it conforms to the "ideal". They begin judging from this aspect. Thus, unusual lighting, exposure or composition choices tend fare poorly. These folks are after "improvement" as photographers. To make their own photographs closer to the "ideal". Show them a landscape amd they get out a wide angle lens.

Other people are more interested in the aesthetic and/or emotional appeal of a photograph - how it affects them like a painting or a sculpture might and they begin to judge it from this aspect - working backwards as to how it might be more appealing with technical or composition changes. These are the artist "types" and most artists are not after "improvement" except in finding the right technical ways to achieve their vision. Art, by definition, cannot be made "better" - although it can be made more appealing to more people. Show them a landscape and they get out a macro lens and focus on the single stalk of wheat in the foreground.

Back to Plato's cave with me.

Catherine
02/06/2004 02:14:50 PM · #15
Originally posted by Rooster:

...I think that creativity works if folks don't have to think too much about it...


The challenge called for art, Rooster, not just creativity. To a literalist, it seems to me, if an entry has no art, it would fail to meet topic, yes?

PS: If you peruse JJ Beguins challenge entries, you will find much evidence of controversy, even outright revolt against popular taste. Your inclusion of his photos in your context is far from my perception of it and, equally, from his intent and stance toward the matter.

JJ's contribution of (considered opinion) artful photography is considerable and, no doubt, critical to the very premise you stand on. His DPC porfolio, to me, is a beautiful document proving that not all is lost and that art need not sit on its blessed arse somewhere, o so holy and aloft.
02/06/2004 02:15:32 PM · #16
I do realize the way the site works and what it takes to do well for the most part with shots here...I also realize that the world at large is full of things that 'are the way they are' poverty, injustice, racism...I can accept these things too, or I can feed the poor, protest and defend what I think is a potentially better approach...
I am not trying to insult anyone, just trying to debate, using 'stupidity' was perhaps not the right word but, hey it grabs attn, and is that the 'popular approach'?
02/06/2004 02:16:16 PM · #17
Originally posted by brett2004:

I don't consider myself the smartest person in the world, but my IQ is far above stupid. We all have opinions, just like you do. That is why our votes count. The most common opinions win.

Like Rooster said, if you liked the photo, then it was a great shot. You can't change my opinion by slamming my voting competence, nor can your gain much respect from such behavior. I have liked most of the shots I have submitted, but I am middle of the pack amongst the masses. Do I get mad, nah. I learn pretty fast about preferences though. I saw your profile, you have submitted quite a few entries, done very well on many in fact. I figure by now you might have figured out that there are differing opinions on this site...


Just had to point out the irony that you telling him that his rant won't change your ways was an attempt to change HIS ways [ie sit down, shut up, stop the ranting]. Sorry, just like pointing out the obvious. Sitting down, shutting up now.
02/06/2004 02:17:35 PM · #18
Originally posted by ellamay:

Does any one voting low on garage art know what/where the word 'garage' comes from... from the french 'garer' a verb meaning 'to shelter'. So we have 'shelter' and we have 'art', which can be debated here forever (and has been, see other threads), I think most would agree this word is somewhat what you make it to be. Perhaps now many folks shelter their cars and tools in 'garages', but just because often interpretted this way does not mean HAS to be that way. Maybe this should be a rant, but I am tired of my shots being misunderstood, interpretted and assumed to be what they are not. Challenges are open to interpretation, yes?... art is a creative endeavour yes? I know we all love to see hundreds of cats shots, so no more creative interpretations please, the only allowed shots acceptable for ALL challenges must have a cat, dog, flower, baby, or bug macros are strictly too creative and I am sure wont fit the challenge.
I'm done now...sorry for offending you in advance.


If you don't get it what is going on here - check the juice bottles, says "NO REFILL",or cigarette boxes " SMOKING IS HARMFULL FOR KIDS PETS ,PREGNANT WOMEN AND EVERYBODY ELSE" or coffee cups "WARNING HOT COFFEE",so might as well you put a sign next time on top of your set-up " YOU KNOW,THIS IS GARAGE ,OK" !
Pitsa,pitsa...
02/06/2004 02:22:37 PM · #19
Catherine. That was said beautifully. Thanks for posting it.
02/06/2004 02:24:30 PM · #20
Check this comment : "woww. superb macro.. i dont know if i can see a "season" in the shoot.. but nice pic.. =)"

For God sake it is a Wasp, lives only 2-3 months and does not come in Winter...
02/06/2004 02:29:47 PM · #21
Originally posted by pitsaman:

Originally posted by ellamay:

Does any one voting low on garage art know what/where the word 'garage' comes from... from the french 'garer' a verb meaning 'to shelter'. So we have 'shelter' and we have 'art', which can be debated here forever (and has been, see other threads), I think most would agree this word is somewhat what you make it to be. Perhaps now many folks shelter their cars and tools in 'garages', but just because often interpretted this way does not mean HAS to be that way. Maybe this should be a rant, but I am tired of my shots being misunderstood, interpretted and assumed to be what they are not. Challenges are open to interpretation, yes?... art is a creative endeavour yes? I know we all love to see hundreds of cats shots, so no more creative interpretations please, the only allowed shots acceptable for ALL challenges must have a cat, dog, flower, baby, or bug macros are strictly too creative and I am sure wont fit the challenge.
I'm done now...sorry for offending you in advance.


If you don't get it what is going on here - check the juice bottles, says "NO REFILL",or cigarette boxes " SMOKING IS HARMFULL FOR KIDS PETS ,PREGNANT WOMEN AND EVERYBODY ELSE" or coffee cups "WARNING HOT COFFEE",so might as well you put a sign next time on top of your set-up " YOU KNOW,THIS IS GARAGE ,OK" !
Pitsa,pitsa...


She might have a sign there saying IT'S ART. After all, this too is part of the challenge title. ;-)
02/06/2004 02:37:16 PM · #22
Originally posted by pitsaman:

Check this comment : "woww. superb macro.. i dont know if i can see a "season" in the shoot.. but nice pic.. =)"

For God sake it is a Wasp, lives only 2-3 months and does not come in Winter...


But that's also location based. I found 3 active wasp nests two weeks ago here - they never go out of season in texas, so I wouldn't see a 'season' in a wasp picture either...
02/06/2004 02:39:15 PM · #23
Originally posted by zeuszen / I'm not French either, but I appear to have some interest in the meaning and interpretation of words we use. Without such an interest, I fear, communication would suffer. I'd have to, in all fairness, refrain from some forms of communication altogether. After all, how could I expect to be taken seriously, if my speech is muddled?

Thats why noone takes me seriously

02/06/2004 02:41:45 PM · #24
I would consider myself a linguaphile as well and tend to put more choice and weight into words that I use than I am sure most people reading them bother to consider.

But I don't know that dpc is a good place to expect much consideration of the finer or more subtle aspects of entries. Certainly not for the vast majority of voters. On those images where I've tried to explore some less traditional approaches I've suffered badly but had the joy of a few people getting it. Often, they don't just get it, they gush, they adore it (they offer to buy it too!)

I like having everyone enjoy a picture but I love it when only a handful really feel moved by it. Pop music vs a good fugue. The world is big enough for both ends of the spectrum.


02/06/2004 02:49:28 PM · #25
Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by pitsaman:

Check this comment : "woww. superb macro.. i dont know if i can see a "season" in the shoot.. but nice pic.. =)"

For God sake it is a Wasp, lives only 2-3 months and does not come in Winter...


But that's also location based. I found 3 active wasp nests two weeks ago here - they never go out of season in texas, so I wouldn't see a 'season' in a wasp picture either...

Oh well,now you got me!
But how many people own a camera in Texas ,lol !? If you get shot in Texas you are most likelly dead not as model...
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