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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Review of JoeyL's second DVD
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10/16/2007 03:27:04 AM · #1
I decided to spring for Joey's second DVD after going back and forth whether or not the price was justified. I decided to put that aside and invest in his lessons, knowing full well that a photography workshop would cost much more and probably wouldn't teach as much.

I'm two-thirds of the way through the lessons, and have decided to write a critique on what I've seen so far. The following review is of Joey's DVD and lesson style, and has nothing to do with his business model or the nature of how he operates. having invested money in this product, I feel it is fair for me to judge its merits and advise those who are also intrigued by the product how I feel about it. No disrespect is meant to anyone, including Joey, who I deem to be an amazing photographer well beyond what I ever hope to accomplish. Anyway, on to the DVD...

My first impression is that Joey is a photographer and not a teacher. Many of the lessons have been nothing more than a rough recording of his workflow as he works through an image. Much of what he's doing is taken for granted, often just saying "blah blah blah" for what he's currently doing, assuming the person watching will simply know what's going on. I'd make sure you have a solid understanding of the tools in Photoshop before investing in this DVD.

My second impression was that the recording quality was sub-par for an investment of this amount. Audio is good throughout (though it seems to cut back and forth between mono and stereo), but there are numerous video artifacts throughout where old frames will remain on screen, creating a "sandwiched" image of old and new frames. It is distracting at best, and makes what Joey is doing incomprehensible at worst. In addition, the video quality is low enough that most text is illegible. The watcher must simply judge values based on the position of a particular slider, as text cannot be read. The size of recording (720 x 480) is fine (and necessary for DVD specifications), but it seems the videos have been compressed too much, creating far too many artifacts.

My third impression was that although Joey clearly knows his stuff, it's rarely explained why a certain adjustment is made (other than "this looks about right"). Although this may seem okay for a walkthrough of an image, it fails to communicate the reasoning behind the action to a person who is interested in learning technique, and not simply replicating a procedure.

To sum up, I found these lessons to be a rehashing of procedure, and not the teaching of technique. I won't give away any of his techniques (that would be unfair to him, as he is running a business off of teaching his style), but I would respectfully caution those who think that these lessons will turn their Photoshop lives around. On a good note, there are many actions (which I haven't looked into) and textures (which I have looked at) included, which certainly justify much of the value of this DVD.

I hope this review is helpful and that its intent is understood. I certainly hope that anyone else who has watched these lessons will either confirm or refute my opinions.
10/16/2007 07:46:21 AM · #2
Thank you for the review. As you say, it is a big investment and surely should be beyond what I read between the lines.

10/16/2007 07:54:28 AM · #3
Geoff, thanks for the review. It is well-stated and well-presented. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to let us know what you think.

Eric
10/16/2007 08:42:41 AM · #4
Hey Geoff,

thanks for the honest review. If you feel that you are missing any specific information or have any questions on anything due to the set backs / learning style you experienced, feel free to e-mail me and I'll be glad to answer anything.

Message edited by author 2007-10-16 08:43:46.
10/16/2007 10:06:36 AM · #5
I was wondering what the "quality" would be like. I have made a few tutorials for friends on simple processes. I use a "screen capture" package that captures the screen to video as you work. I can never get the quality of the "big boys" for example on Photoshoptv.

I was wondering if Joey conquered this issue.

I also know what you mean about not being a teacher. When friends look at my video, they still have tons of questions to ask me! It surprises me b/c I felt the video explained it ALL...which obviously it did not!
10/16/2007 10:10:27 AM · #6
I don't feel the compression compromises the video at all, but I understand your problem.

There is two hours of footage as well as over 50 high res textures, which brings the download size to 1.3 gigabytes, which I feel is pretty reasonable. I'm very picky on quality too, but the results impressed me
10/16/2007 05:52:05 PM · #7
Geoffb, thanks for the info. Not that I was going to buy it anyway, but I'm sure people who are on the fence about the price will probably use this to help them decide which way to go. I was interested to know how the dvd was, so I'm glad you reviewed it. I'm sorry to hear it wasn't to your liking, and hopefully you can resell it or maybe get a refund. Thanks for your input.
10/16/2007 06:10:57 PM · #8
Our studio purchased the DVD as well. I really can't see what compression has to do with what was offered. I think it was an excellent dvd with many helpful tips. Joey's multipy technique is worth quite a bit and that alone justifies the purchase to me.

Remember to think outside the box. One of the videos inspired me to do a photoshoot that I guarantee will make me a few thousand dollars. It is not like Joey said, "Ok here is how you make money". Use your own thoughts and creativity to spawn your own ideas.

Travis

Message edited by author 2007-10-16 18:13:24.
10/16/2007 10:09:01 PM · #9
Originally posted by Travis99:

Our studio purchased the DVD as well. I really can't see what compression has to do with what was offered.

I have screenshots from a few different cases--all repeatable--but I'm not about to post them here due to copyright. These are typically caused by video compression, but I suppose it might have to do with frame rate or the codec used.

Originally posted by Travis99:

I think it was an excellent dvd with many helpful tips.

I agree; there are definitely things I learned in the videos.

Originally posted by Travis99:

Joey's multipy technique is worth quite a bit and that alone justifies the purchase to me.

Can't say I agree with you, but that's fine.

Originally posted by Travis99:

Remember to think outside the box. One of the videos inspired me to do a photoshoot that I guarantee will make me a few thousand dollars.

That's great! He definitely has exceptional ideas, and is able to see and setup scenes that I could never even dream of.

Originally posted by Travis99:

It is not like Joey said, "Ok here is how you make money". Use your own thoughts and creativity to spawn your own ideas.

I'm not claiming that that's what I expected. It was simply a review of the lessons.
10/16/2007 10:11:38 PM · #10
Originally posted by Joey Lawrence:

Hey Geoff,

thanks for the honest review. If you feel that you are missing any specific information or have any questions on anything due to the set backs / learning style you experienced, feel free to e-mail me and I'll be glad to answer anything.

Thanks Joey. Although I understood most of what you were doing, I might have to take you up on that. Much appreciated.

ETA:

Originally posted by Joey Lawrence:

There is two hours of footage as well as over 50 high res textures, which brings the download size to 1.3 gigabytes, which I feel is pretty reasonable. I'm very picky on quality too, but the results impressed me

I fully understand how difficult it is to fit that much data in as small of files as is possible. It's a tradeoff, for sure. My intention was only to make people aware of the few issues I had; 99% of the time, the video quality was great.

Message edited by author 2007-10-16 22:13:18.
10/17/2007 02:13:01 AM · #11
Hit me up on e-mail any time, dude. I'm typing from Abu Dhabi airport right now but I am looking after my e-mail in between things I'm up

From the sound of your first post, it seemed like you were totally not digging the disk at all... so I'm glad you at least got some things out of it! Thanks

Message edited by author 2007-10-17 02:13:17.
10/17/2007 11:03:44 AM · #12
Have to say I find it somewhat pricey too. I have not seen the dvd and it does look fun, yet we're still talking $200 plus. In the 3D field, you find top notch 8 hour walkthroughs for $59, so I really can't see how such a price is justified (not to mention digital download). Gary Fong's lightsphere is already expensive enough ;).

Nothing against Joey or his great DVD's, just my inner-business thoughts coming out :P
10/18/2007 12:49:54 PM · #13
(edited to keep reviews on one thread as per Ursula's post)


Message edited by author 2007-10-18 14:01:16.
10/18/2007 02:01:23 PM · #14
After Geoffb’s review, here is my review of Joey’s Complete Tutorial.

The short version : It’s pricey, but it’s solid stuff.

The long version:

With the tutorial you get 9 lessons, on 9 topics that are individual steps in image editing. For example how to improve a photograph by playing with the S curve (and some more advanced ones). You also get 50+ high resolution textures, 10 Photoshop actions and a a few behind the scene videos on shoots set-up.

The videos explain fairly well the ideas, as long as you own and know how to use Photoshop. As Geoff pointed out, most of the time you’ll get Joey telling you “do this until it looks cool”. But the truth is, did you expect this tutorial to make an artist out of you? Nah, you’ll get the tool, what you make of it is up to you. It’s up to you for example to decide if your image has more impact with more or less contrast here or there.

The video are of good (as in not amazing, but good enough) quality, except 2. For lessons using the picture of a beaten up guy and one with a man on a boat, the quality is poor. You see the picture being edited ok, but can only guess what’s happening beside it. And you do get strange video artifacts that are not helping either. Now it’s annoying, but you can still understand what’s happening. And this is only the case with 2 pictures being discussed while in each case, the lesson also discusses other pictures where the quality of the video is good. So all in all, a bit disappointing, but not terrible. So overall, no major problem with the video.

2 hours and 9 lessons are actually not a huge lot. But it is the right 9 lessons and 2 hours. If you are into portrait photography, and want to get inspiring editing techniques, you’ll get them. This may have to be read in the context of my own level. I know some basic stuff in Photoshop, but I am still discovering some more advanced stuff, and Joey's tutorial fitted very well my need.

So is it worth it? No straight answer IMHO. I do think that (some? all?) Pros can get their money back. For amateurs, that’s a tougher call (hey Joey, what about doing a pro / amateur pricing?). You can get thousands of Photoshop techniques for free on the Internet, but here you get the Joey tried and tested ones. Proprietary material, from a (now) pro. Try ask Dave Hill how much he would charge you to get even 2-3 editing lessons.

You should buy this DVD if:
• you’re not short on cash, and/or you live in the Euro zone or in a country where you can benefit from the cheap US$.
• you’re into portrait photography
• you’re looking for a few, well selected, inspiring editing tools
• you own and know well how to use Photoshop, just need guidance on how to use it better
• you’re a pro and can improve your business this way

You should think twice if:
• you’re tight on cash
• you shoot macro or landscapes etc. Any photo can benefit from the featured techniques, but you’ll probably get most of it with portrait photos (all the examples are portrait photos)
• you want an extensive library of Photoshop tools (better buy one of those excellent hundred pages Photoshop books for $30)
• "Photoshop, you mean Elements?"
• You’re Dave Hill

What I really liked :
• Simple yet effective. It just sounds so easy. Most of those techniques can improve your picture without 10h of work
• You’re not lost in such a long list of techniques that you just can’t find your way, nor find the right one (nor find any really good one). Quality over Quantity
• The explanations are clear, although you must pay attention to details, sometimes barely or very quickly mentioned by Joey

What could have been improved
• Too bad about those 2 crappy video lessons parts
• Would have been great to have the original photos being discussed included to try yourself
• A couple of more lessons?

Message edited by author 2007-10-22 12:28:38.
10/18/2007 02:10:19 PM · #15
Originally posted by mouten:

After Geoffb’s review, here is my review of Joey’s Complete Tutorial.

The short version : It’s pricey, but it’s solid stuff.

The long version:

[edited for brevity]


Great review, Nicolas. I was glad to see we generally agreed on most aspects of the DVD.
10/18/2007 03:39:34 PM · #16

Lengthy review at Strobist

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