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06/04/2002 10:05:21 PM · #26 |
Hokie: "But in my day-in and day-out work I get so much critique and hard nosed nit-picking from people much tougher than this crowd I may have become sort of hardened against it."
Which is worse, Hokie: Hard nosed nit-picking, or hard nit nose-picking?
:)
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06/04/2002 10:35:34 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by lisae:
... but your comment on my photo was a little bit much!
"I'm sorry, please try again. With practice I know you can do better."
When I read that, I quoted it to some people I was chatting with online and said OMG I just got the most patronising comment EVER! It was a good laugh :)
… I look at the fact that 36 people rated it above a 5, and one person gave it a 10, and I feel somewhat satisfied.
Sorry about the sarcastic comment, I’m glad you were able to at least get a laugh out of it anyway.
And you are right; I need to focus more on the fact that there were a large number of people that did enjoy the picture.
And, I did collect more Ones than you.
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06/04/2002 10:44:25 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by Yellowpeep:
Hokie: "But in my day-in and day-out work I get so much critique and hard nosed nit-picking from people much tougher than this crowd I may have become sort of hardened against it."
Which is worse, Hokie: Hard nosed nit-picking, or hard nit nose-picking?
:)
OMG!! :-)
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06/05/2002 01:00:03 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by hokie:
Anyway, my intention was not to make you feel bad but maybe to show you that people can be unmoved and still refrain from saying dumb sh1t like "trya again". :-/
Please don''t hate me....it took a tremendous amount emotional energy to post this :-)
Of course I don''t hate you :) Everything you said is fair enough. When I was wandering around the markets, I saw this little group of people of African, Islamic origin. The woman walking in front of the little girl is her mother, in a muslim head scarf, but there were some men in long white shirts and little hats, one holding an adorable sleeping baby. I tried desperately to get a photo of them together, but they split up and I hadn''t gotten anything good. Then I saw the mother and daughter again and tailed them, taking a couple of photos and probably looking way too suspicious seeing as that blond woman was staring at me, as you can see in the photo.
Anyway, I was really glad to get the girl in mid stride, looking around like that. I love the way the light catches her face and hair. I know how happy I was to get the photo, so I guess I can''t look at it without those emotions clouding my mind.
* This message has been edited by the author on 6/5/2002 1:00:39 AM. |
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06/05/2002 01:12:22 AM · #30 |
Why would anyone want a picture that looked like it came from a security camera?
IMHO a photo needs to be of good quality before it is manupulated. I poorly exposed, focued, framed, or of poor resolution cannot be saved. If you want to play with the big boys, get the right equipment and knowledge, and be prepared to work at it.
BTW; I am barely above a 4 in this challenge.
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06/05/2002 02:05:37 AM · #31 |
Oh, there are big boys here? I hadn''t noticed.
On second thoughts, I take that back :). I have PMS.
* This message has been edited by the author on 6/5/2002 2:06:58 AM. |
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06/05/2002 03:09:32 AM · #32 |
Originally posted by lisae:
Oh, there are big boys here? I hadn''t noticed.
On second thoughts, I take that back :). I have PMS
LOL...
Personally, IMHO, the "feeling" that a photo gives me is more important than the technical aspects, no matter how blurry, or grainy, etc. it might be. |
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06/05/2002 06:58:51 AM · #33 |
The comment isn't mine, but I don't understand your bewilderment with the comment. The reason I didn't submit a photo was because I couldn't find anything that I thought black and white was appropriate for. I could have taken a photo that I thought would like nice in black and white, but I wanted to take one where I thought black and white was actually the appropriate choice. Although most of the photos didn't suffer for this reason when I cast my votes, I did find it difficult to give a 10 to any photo where I really thought color would have been a much more appropriate choice.
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I have a comment that I can't wait to share.. lol.. My comment basically says that I submitted a photo to a black and white challenge that would look better in color and this is the only reason I didn't get a 10 on it.. lol...
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06/05/2002 07:44:37 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by lisae:
Oh, there are big boys here? I hadn''t noticed.
On second thoughts, I take that back :). I have PMS
ROTFLOL!!! You go Girl! |
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06/05/2002 08:00:42 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by shortredneck:
Originally posted by lisae:
[i]Oh, there are big boys here? I hadn''t noticed.
On second thoughts, I take that back :). I have PMS
ROTFLOL!!! You go Girl![/i]
~gets in the corner and laughs with the girls~
pfffttt NONE of you have anything to worry over comments about. If you need to feel better just go read about my air/snot bubble comments from last week:)
* This message has been edited by the author on 6/5/2002 8:01:03 AM.
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06/05/2002 08:57:51 AM · #36 |
| Everyone needs to remember "its a lot easier to hammer, than it is to hit the nail on the head". RP |
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06/05/2002 09:19:41 AM · #37 |
lisae...
Thanks for understanding about my comments :-)
A graphics teacher I studied under had this discussion a long time ago. He asked a class one time if it was fair to discriminate in the art world and, of course, as university students who thought we were too smart to get suckered in, as a group we said "depends"(we liked to hedge our bets with this professor).
Of course he said,"depends on what". The class was silent for a bit then one person yelled out "depends on who we are trying to impress!".
He stood back, looked a bit puzzled and asked the student.."How many times are you gonna take this course?".
The student was right. We all know art is subjective, of course there are technical considerations but all we can do is throw ourselves into as many opportunities to experience something and see if anything sticks. But through it all don't try to impress anyone other than yourself.
If you have any talent and are true to whatever makes you who you are, that will be enough. Time will take care of the rest.
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06/05/2002 11:27:58 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by hokie:
lisae...
Thanks for understanding about my comments :-)
A graphics teacher I studied under had this discussion a long time ago. He asked a class one time if it was fair to discriminate in the art world and, of course, as university students who thought we were too smart to get suckered in, as a group we said "depends"(we liked to hedge our bets with this professor).
Of course he said,"depends on what". The class was silent for a bit then one person yelled out "depends on who we are trying to impress!".
He stood back, looked a bit puzzled and asked the student.."How many times are you gonna take this course?".
The student was right. We all know art is subjective, of course there are technical considerations but all we can do is throw ourselves into as many opportunities to experience something and see if anything sticks. But through it all don't try to impress anyone other than yourself.
If you have any talent and are true to whatever makes you who you are, that will be enough. Time will take care of the rest.
When I judge a photo, I ask myself "how would that look on my wall?" I have been shooting for 15 years, and I only have a handful of my own prints up on the wall. To my way of thinking, if it would not be worth posting on the wall, it is lower than a 5. A picture that looks washed out and fuzzy at 640x480, is not going to make a good print.
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06/05/2002 11:31:34 AM · #39 |
Zeiss,
I am posting my FIRST photo on my wall this week out of my own collection... It's one of my tossout photos for the black and white challenge called "Will I Make It"... the link to my OUTTAKES below will show you that photo... I would love to have your comments on it... :)
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06/05/2002 11:54:50 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by Zeissman:
When I judge a photo, I ask myself "how would that look on my wall?" I have been shooting for 15 years, and I only have a handful of my own prints up on the wall. To my way of thinking, if it would not be worth posting on the wall, it is lower than a 5. A picture that looks washed out and fuzzy at 640x480, is not going to make a good print.
That works for you but I will say this..there is some incredible art I would not necessarily want on my wall
:-)
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06/05/2002 12:09:19 PM · #41 |
I love putting my (non-digital) photos around my house. These are scans of a few that I have on my wall:
Wilson Lane (that has a lot of meaning to me that it wouldn't have to anyone else, because of the number of times I've walked down that lane in bare feet to buy a loaf of bread and some milk...)
Quokka
Adelaide Botanical Gardens
The Pinnacles
When I take photos with my little polaroid digital camera, it's not really for that reason though. It's just for fun. And since this is just a friendly contest with no prize, I see it that way as well. |
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06/05/2002 12:13:54 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by hokie:
That works for you but I will say this..there is some incredible art I would not necessarily want on my wall
:-)
Very true. Even some of my own photos that I like, I wouldn't put on the wall. I mean, I like the color and composition alright, but an 11x14 glossy of rotting tomatoes just wouldn't match my decor... |
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06/05/2002 12:16:44 PM · #43 |
I also have some of my photos on the wall (even though my poor husband doesn''t like all of them, and now has to look at them all the time! ;-)
after the rain
In Between This one was going to be my first entry for "Transition" but my firewall stopped me from submitting ...
White Goose Watching
Bottoms Up
And of course Orange Symphony
And yes, I know this puts me square in the cute cat/flower/baby class even though I don''t have a cat picture up (yet) and don''t have a kid so don''t take baby photos! ;-)
Originally posted by lisae:
[i]I love putting my (non-digital) photos around my house. These are scans of a few that I have on my wall:
* This message has been edited by the author on 6/5/2002 12:18:50 PM.
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06/05/2002 12:17:10 PM · #44 |
There is a lot of talk about "rules" and "working in context" in this thread.
My view is that photography is a visual art. That means to me, that the image needs to communciate visually to the viewer. If the title and some other contextual information is required for even basic communciation to occur the image has failed a basic communications test.
Alternatively, when an image communicates a strong message, then technical and compositional "rules" are far less significant. One image that comes to mind is the one from the vietnam conflict era -where the policeman is firing into the head of a "prisoner". 30 years later I can pull that image into my memory. My recollection is that compositionally and technically it is average. As are a lot of powerful photo journalistic images. Artsy photography is hard and anyone attempting to do digital photo images as art needs to expect that most of the attempts will fall well short of their expectations and that even fewer observers will appreciate the attempt.
A lot of people don't like Piccaso or Van Gogh, yet each are seminal artists using very different technical and compositional guidelines.
The challenge is to create something that we are pleased with and then use the voting as a barometer of wider impressions. Remembering that most voters have realitively uneducated artistic eyes. Let's also remember that the average pair of eyes sees more than a thousand visual images every day. Nearly all of them produced by professional image makers to illisit their attention for commercial perposes. That photographic collective has done more to condition viewers to technical and compositional "rules" than anything else.
DMW
Originally posted by heritcon:
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
[i]this picture is blurry on purpose
yakuza witness protection program
i didnt submit it mostly because i think it would get instantly hammered with no consideration of why it was done like that : )
I agree. Within context the photo can work. But the viewer needs to know what a yakuza is and has to know about witness protection. Without the title the photo does not work. With the title and a little back ground it could work as a serious piece --or as I take it -a funny piece.
bryan
[/i]
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06/05/2002 01:02:12 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by dmward:
....Let's also remember that the average pair of eyes sees more than a thousand visual images every day. Nearly all of them produced by professional image makers to illisit their attention for commercial perposes.
.....That photographic collective has done more to condition viewers to technical and compositional "rules" than anything else.......
Your comment hits home dmward...
I had been thinking about going back for my masters in communication. I live near a university that specializes in communication/advertising/etc. with lots of ties to the advertising community.
When I started to really think about it..studying their prospectus I realized that what I did not want in my life at this point was the privelage of paying $18,000 a year to be reconditioned by folks with less real life experience than myself. Telling me how to break established rules to follow new "x" rules.
I saw privelaged twenty somethings with lots of money and time designing pretentious "fake" ads/community bulletins based on barely cooked thoughts and proclaiming something "new".
Now I know why I watch so little TV and read so few major magazines.
That $36,000 is gonna buy a lot of fun new camera toys, send my kid to college and let my wife and I see some more of the world before we are too old to climb mountains....
I ain't going back :-P |
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06/05/2002 01:24:02 PM · #46 |
| what you may be paying for hokie are the connections and guaranteed job prospects? |
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06/05/2002 02:18:34 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
what you may be paying for hokie are the connections and guaranteed job prospects?
Thing is, if these young adults are having to pay for contacts at 18 grand a year then that might be what is wrong with the industry...too much inbreeding of the mid-american elite.
I guess if you have few other options as a 22 year old college graduate what else you gonna do but get more college? I don't see a lot of demand in the graphics industry nowadays for 22 year old novices with bachelors degrees in graphic design/marketing. The advertising industry as a whole has taken a nose dive into the proverbial toilet with the economy. And every body and their third cousin can open a graphics house.
As for myself, I was already in the "industry" 15 years ago. When I first got out of college, myself and a few others started our own agency. I did the sales/presentations, we had a computer hardware/software whiz, an art director and a business/office manager and some graphics labor.
But as a person of my age and position today I look at more college and said "this don't feel right for me". If my daughter were coming out of college I might say think long and hard about a masters and if she wanted to do it with her own money..go for it.
As the "frontman", having to sell and maintain business relationships (I was the only one that could fit in the suit!) I've never had a chance to explore art as much as I wanted. I am gonna take my time now and screw around with stupid stuff at my leisure...for free :-) |
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06/05/2002 06:33:43 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Zeiss,
I am posting my FIRST photo on my wall this week out of my own collection... It's one of my tossout photos for the black and white challenge called "Will I Make It"... the link to my OUTTAKES below will show you that photo... I would love to have your comments on it... :)
I wanted to comment on that one, I was looking for a link on the website to email you. It is stunning. That is everything a BW should be. Great tone, real depth. That reminds me of an Adams, with the richness. That is definitely a ten.
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06/05/2002 06:50:53 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by gr8photos:
I also have some of my photos on the wall (even though my poor husband doesn''t like all of them, and now has to look at them all the time! ;-)
after the rain
In Between This one was going to be my first entry for "Transition" but my firewall stopped me from submitting ...
White Goose Watching
Bottoms Up
And of course Orange Symphony
And yes, I know this puts me square in the cute cat/flower/baby class even though I don''t have a cat picture up (yet) and don''t have a kid so don''t take baby photos! ;-)
Originally posted by lisae:
[i]I love putting my (non-digital) photos around my house. These are scans of a few that I have on my wall:
Those are very nice gr8. And I think some of you are taking me a little two literally. I would not want rotting tomatoes on my wall either, but it would still hold up. If I want it on my wall, it would be an 9-10
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06/05/2002 07:26:00 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by dmward:
[i]There is a lot of talk about "rules" and "working in context" in this thread.
My view is that photography is a visual art. That means to me, that the image needs to communciate visually to the viewer. If the title and some other contextual information is required for even basic communciation to occur the image has failed a basic communications test.
Since you quoted my yakuza comment I thought I would respond. What i tried to convey agrees completely with you. Photo is a visual medium and, standing alone, must convey its message that way.
HOWEVER a photo that can not stand alone such as the yakuza photo can in context (say a newsapaper article on yakuza witness protection)work just fine. As for the rules I think breaking them are wonderful things to do. BUT THE PHOTO MUST WORK!!! WETHER THE RULES ARE FOLLOWED OR NOT. The photo that started this thread did not work. Even with the explaniation. That is my opinion and I am sure there is someone besides the photographer who will like that photo.
In dpchallenge there is no ability to have context (as a video or print media might allow) so the photos must stand alone. That does not mean that failed challenge photos can't work well in context elsewhere.
Bryan |
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