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06/03/2002 02:18:15 PM · #1
With the comments i''m getting for my submission.. it seems a lot of people don''t realize that part of it is SUPPOSED to be out of focus. Admittedly, I don''t think I have much of a chance this time with all the great entries, but I wish people could see that this was intentional.

* This message has been edited by the author on 6/3/2002 2:24:03 PM.
06/03/2002 02:22:26 PM · #2
Originally posted by bhop73:
With the comments i''m getting for my submission "**********" it seems a lot of people don''t realize that the cat is SUPPOSED to be out of focus. Admittedly, I don''t think I have much of a chance this time with all the great entries, but I wish people could see that this was intentional.

I have some thougts on this that I will share with you in my comments, but we generally try to avoid discussing photos too much here while voting is in progress, as it may unfairly influence the voting.

Submissions are anonymous until voting is over so discussing one''s submission before voting is over is usually avoided.


* This message has been edited by an administrator on 6/3/2002 4:09:08 PM - keeping it anonymous.
06/03/2002 03:24:36 PM · #3
Originally posted by bhop73:
Admittedly, I don''t think I have much of a chance this time with all the great entries, but I wish people could see that this was intentional[/i]

OK it was intentional. Why? The photo does not work on so many levels.

Bryan
06/03/2002 03:31:26 PM · #4
Originally posted by heritcon:
OK it was intentional. Why? The photo does not work on so many levels.

Bryan



well, that''s fine that you think that. Everyone''s entitled to their own opinions. Personally I like photos that aren''t "normal" or follow set "rules".

* This message has been edited by the author on 6/3/2002 3:32:11 PM.
06/03/2002 03:34:22 PM · #5
Something that is intentionally out of focus that is outside the normal rules of photography would likely get hammered on this site. The viewer has no way of knowing that you 'intended' it to be out of focus. I tried 'soft focus' last week and got hammered for it... :)

06/03/2002 03:42:28 PM · #6
Originally posted by bhop73:
Originally posted by heritcon:
[i]OK it was intentional. Why? The photo does not work on so many levels.

Bryan



well, that''s fine that you think that. Everyone''s entitled to their own opinions. Personally I like photos that aren''t "normal" or follow set "rules".[/i]


I like photos that break the rules to. But the rules are not there by accident. The photo must work -it matters not if it follows the rules or not. That image was simply not interesting on many more levels than the focus. As I said though there are those who will like it. You got to please yourself.

Bryan
06/03/2002 03:48:57 PM · #7
this picture is blurry on purpose

yakuza witness protection program

i didnt submit it mostly because i think it would get instantly hammered with no consideration of why it was done like that : )
06/03/2002 03:52:28 PM · #8
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
this picture is blurry on purpose

yakuza witness protection program

i didnt submit it mostly because i think it would get instantly hammered with no consideration of why it was done like that : )



I agree. Within context the photo can work. But the viewer needs to know what a yakuza is and has to know about witness protection. Without the title the photo does not work. With the title and a little back ground it could work as a serious piece --or as I take it -a funny piece.

bryan
06/03/2002 03:54:07 PM · #9
I have a comment that I can't wait to share.. lol.. My comment basically says that I submitted a photo to a black and white challenge that would look better in color and this is the only reason I didn't get a 10 on it.. lol...
06/03/2002 03:57:02 PM · #10
That comment's not from me, but I do take that into account when voting. There are photos that would look better in color and I think part of the challenge is not just to convert any photo to b&w but to choose one where b&w works well. That's just my personal opinion of course. I didn't submit one of my "outtakes" exactly because of that reason.

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I have a comment that I can't wait to share.. lol.. My comment basically says that I submitted a photo to a black and white challenge that would look better in color and this is the only reason I didn't get a 10 on it.. lol...



06/03/2002 04:00:08 PM · #11
it's ok.. i think my submission looks really great in black and white too :)

Originally posted by gr8photos:
That comment's not from me, but I do take that into account when voting. There are photos that would look better in color and I think part of the challenge is not just to convert any photo to b&w but to choose one where b&w works well. That's just my personal opinion of course. I didn't submit one of my "outtakes" exactly because of that reason.

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
[i]I have a comment that I can't wait to share.. lol.. My comment basically says that I submitted a photo to a black and white challenge that would look better in color and this is the only reason I didn't get a 10 on it.. lol...



[/i]


06/03/2002 04:01:21 PM · #12
Then all is well! :)

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
it's ok.. i think my submission looks really great in black and white too :)

Originally posted by gr8photos:
[i]That comment's not from me, but I do take that into account when voting. There are photos that would look better in color and I think part of the challenge is not just to convert any photo to b&w but to choose one where b&w works well. That's just my personal opinion of course. I didn't submit one of my "outtakes" exactly because of that reason.

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
[i]I have a comment that I can't wait to share.. lol.. My comment basically says that I submitted a photo to a black and white challenge that would look better in color and this is the only reason I didn't get a 10 on it.. lol...



[/i]


[/i]


06/03/2002 04:05:41 PM · #13
I got hammered on my last photo for having a TOO much soft focus.

I liked the soft focus on my last entry because the soft focus allowed my live person element to "melt" into my art element better.

But..I unintentionally went tooooo far and deserved to get hammered. Especially because I was going for an experimental art photo and should have known that I was gonna get hammered enough on that not to correct the focus and give myself a double whammy.

But soft focus in general on this site will get you a gaurantee on a lower score by a large margin. I have said it before many voters treat this site as a "easter egg hunt" meaning looking for what is wrong more than for what is right.

DO NOT USE SOFT FOCUS HERE!!!! unless you got the teflon ego to take all the comments that go with it. :-)
06/03/2002 04:07:52 PM · #14
I honestly thought my attempt at image distortion would have received some recognition as an art form. But 27 ones, Ouch! This newbe just got hit right between the eyes with reality. If it hadn’t been for some really great comments from people with open minds I probably would have been totally discouraged. The next challenge well we’ll see, I might even try a something else.


06/03/2002 04:10:07 PM · #15
Hokie,

I believe that properly used soft focus is very nice in a photograph. I also believe its an easy out for anyone that is not for anyone who is looking to be critical...


Originally posted by hokie:
I got hammered on my last photo for having a TOO much soft focus.

I liked the soft focus on my last entry because the soft focus allowed my live person element to "melt" into my art element better.

But..I unintentionally went tooooo far and deserved to get hammered. Especially because I was going for an experimental art photo and should have known that I was gonna get hammered enough on that not to correct the focus and give myself a double whammy.

But soft focus in general on this site will get you a gaurantee on a lower score by a large margin. I have said it before many voters treat this site as a "easter egg hunt" meaning looking for what is wrong more than for what is right.

DO NOT USE SOFT FOCUS HERE!!!! unless you got the teflon ego to take all the comments that go with it. :-)



06/03/2002 04:28:00 PM · #16
or unless you have a penthouse model in front of your camera ; ) ...

Originally posted by hokie:
DO NOT USE SOFT FOCUS HERE!!!! unless you got the teflon ego to take all the comments that go with it. :-)

06/03/2002 04:43:52 PM · #17
Regarding "Easter Egg Hunts" for photo problems. In some respects, that fits me. I do look for what I consider to be "flaws" in every photo -- sometimes that means grain, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it's focus, sometimes it's not. And while I'm pretty sure I don't speak for all the Easter Egg Hunters, just because I point out something I see as a flaw doesn't mean that I also gave you a 1. Most of the time I make suggestions to photos I score as 10 -- something that the photog might consider in the future to take their work yet an additional step into the excellent.

You can't get even better if all you get is "atta-boys" -- someone needs to push. Personally, I love the well thought out critiques of things I consider my best work. I may or may not agree, but it means people are taking me seriously enough to say, "This is really good, but you might make it better yet by..."

Anyway, my whole point summarized: just because it looks like criticism doesn't mean it's necessarily bad.
06/03/2002 04:51:56 PM · #18
Yup, for most of my comments I try to highlight things I like and things that I would consider trying differently. That's the kind of feedback I like, too. If I have submitted a photo that I can recreate, then I sometimes try the suggestions just to see if I like them better or not.

Originally posted by Patella:
Regarding "Easter Egg Hunts" for photo problems. In some respects, that fits me. I do look for what I consider to be "flaws" in every photo -- sometimes that means grain, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it's focus, sometimes it's not. And while I'm pretty sure I don't speak for all the Easter Egg Hunters, just because I point out something I see as a flaw doesn't mean that I also gave you a 1. Most of the time I make suggestions to photos I score as 10 -- something that the photog might consider in the future to take their work yet an additional step into the excellent.

You can't get even better if all you get is "atta-boys" -- someone needs to push. Personally, I love the well thought out critiques of things I consider my best work. I may or may not agree, but it means people are taking me seriously enough to say, "This is really good, but you might make it better yet by..."

Anyway, my whole point summarized: just because it looks like criticism doesn't mean it's necessarily bad.



06/03/2002 04:52:21 PM · #19
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
or unless you have a penthouse model in front of your camera ; ) ...

Originally posted by hokie:
[i]DO NOT USE SOFT FOCUS HERE!!!! unless you got the teflon ego to take all the comments that go with it. :-)


[/i]

Hehheh.....

I would be lying if I said that criticism had no affect on me at all. I don''t want to seem above it all. I am not and I am human.

But in my day-in and day-out work I get so much critique and hard nosed nit-picking from people much tougher than this crowd I may have become sort of hardened against it.

I definitely deserved the focus criticisms in my last photo. Those were right on. I just submitted a photo that was only 85% of what I wanted and I deserved to get smacked a bit :-) I actually would like to see this same photo done with film so I could blow the image up to about 6 foot across to 4-1/2 tall..I see this image as really big on a wall.

The other changes...I don''t agree with at all but that doesn''t mean the folks that made the comments should not have made them. They definitely should comment as often and as passionately as they need to and as they see fit :-)

I had a vision. I usually do with each photo. Some attempts fall short of what I envisioned and the comments here help me to crystalize what I may have already thought about doing differently.

The last photo had the colors I wanted, the lighting like I wanted, the human element I wanted but the focus was not EXACTLY like I wanted. If I were to change other elements the photo would simply be a different photo, different but not necessarily better or worse.

I think that a lot of folks here have to get to that same point in their photography. Have a vision, stick to it and use what ever info they get here to get them closer to their vision.



* This message has been edited by the author on 6/3/2002 4:53:15 PM.
06/03/2002 04:57:41 PM · #20
Originally posted by Patella:
Anyway, my whole point summarized: just because it looks like criticism doesn't mean it's necessarily bad.


I' ve got nothing against criticism. In fact, I welcome it. I'm a graphic designer by trade, so it's part of my everyday life...it's just that when people seem to miss things that, to me, seem completely obvious.... well, that's why I titled this thread "I just don't get it"
06/04/2002 12:48:48 AM · #21
Originally posted by daysez:
I honestly thought my attempt at image distortion would have received some recognition as an art form. But 27 ones, Ouch! This newbe just got hit right between the eyes with reality. If it hadn’t been for some really great comments from people with open minds I probably would have been totally discouraged. The next challenge well we’ll see, I might even try a something else.




Well, you could tell from my comment I loved it... but your comment on my photo was a little bit much!

"I'm sorry, please try again. With practice I know you can do better."

When I read that, I quoted it to some people I was chatting with online and said OMG I just got the most patronising comment EVER! It was a good laugh :)

A lot of the things people didn't like about my photo were done intentionally... I set out to get a photo that would actually seem like a security camera image (something one comment likened it to), and since my camera is completely automatic and low resolution, and doesn't handle low light situations well at all, I knew it would not turn out very nicely, but then I turned the colours up in the gimp and played with the levels a lot and ended up with something I really like. But like your photo, it's not something many other people ended up liking, not even you :) That's the way it goes here. I look at the fact that 36 people rated it above a 5, and one person gave it a 10, and I feel somewhat satisfied.

06/04/2002 12:47:28 PM · #22
After reading your background of your shot, I better understand why it is the way it is.
"Candid" shots are tough, especially shooting blind, like you were. Good thing digital media is deletable. This type of photography would be WAY overly expensive in film. Take lots, and lots of this type shot and expect to dump many.
In a lame attempt to defend daysez, viewed optimistically, to say, I don''t like this, shoot more, but that person should defend themselves.
I have been attempting to offer a new view - the glass is not half empty or full, it has water in it!!!!!
IMO - Every photo editor I have ever played with (I''m a player, not an experienced abuser) every effect applied to a digital image has a negative impact. Even sharpening a shot can have minor overcorrections that I personally don''t care for. Using more powerful tools such as color saturation adds pixelation. It''s not your fault or the programs, it''s the nature of the beast/media.
One of the reasons I appreciate this site is the rules about post production.
My advise to anyone that doesn''t have a Silicon Graphics CPU is to avoid "touch ups", but that is just my opinion.

Happy shooting!

* This message has been edited by the author on 6/4/2002 12:49:06 PM.
06/04/2002 01:16:55 PM · #23
Lisae..I must say..I cannot lie to be nice to you..even though I like you immensely.

I voted a 3 on your photo.

Why.....

Because I am an a-hole. Actually..I have a personal preference when it comes to open public grab shots. They have to be spellbinding to get my attention..they have to speak about some condition. Take a peek at these shots by photo journalist Mary Englander.

Mary Englander

There a million other variations but I think you get where I am going. And yes, it is unfair to compare you to Mary Englander or anybody else. I am just trying to give you an idea of what images of good open public shots mean to me.

Maybe if you shot focused on a small child lost in the market looking for their mom or dad..that searching kind of thing....maybe a sharper focus on the environment. I don't know...but the photo left me untouched in any way..technical or emotional.

I am not a openly critical kind of guy. A-hole ..guilty as charged. But I try as hard as I can..to focus my attention on things that move me. To see that spark that speaks to me..as subjective as that may be.

Anyway, my intention was not to make you feel bad but maybe to show you that people can be unmoved and still refrain from saying dumb sh1t like "trya again". :-/

Please don't hate me....it took a tremendous amount emotional energy to post this :-)


06/04/2002 02:32:55 PM · #24



A lot of the things people didn't like about my photo were done intentionally... I set out to get a photo that would actually seem like a security camera image (something one comment likened it to), and since my camera is completely automatic and low resolution, and doesn't handle low light situations well at all, I knew it would not turn out very nicely, but then I turned the colours up in the gimp and played with the levels a lot and ended up with something I really like. But like your photo, it's not something many other people ended up liking, not even you :) That's the way it goes here. I look at the fact that 36 people rated it above a 5, and one person gave it a 10, and I feel somewhat satisfied.

[/i]

With the understanding that you like the photo and you knew the intent/limitations I understand your comment. The photo did not work for me but TASTE DIFFERS.

textWhat is amazing to me is how you got so darn many ones. Maybe I am way off base but I save one votes for two things. First any photo that is just pure crap and it would have to be really bad. And I would likely still give that a two. The ones that I have given a few ones on are those photos that I feel really do not even attempt to meet the challenge. Your photo was IMHO a 2 or a 3 for quality and content but there was no doubt in anyones mind it was a people photo. You should not have gotten any ones except from those folks who had to dig out that airline barf bag from their last flight when they looked at it (I dont think it was that bad).
06/04/2002 09:58:05 PM · #25
Originally posted by heritcon:
With the understanding that you like the photo and you knew the intent/limitations I understand What is amazing to me is how you got so darn many ones. Maybe I am way off base but I save one votes for two things. First any photo that is just pure crap and it would have to be really bad. And I would likely still give that a two. The ones that I have given a few ones on are those photos that I feel really do not even attempt to meet the challenge. Your photo was IMHO a 2 or a 3 for quality and content but there was no doubt in anyones mind it was a people photo. You should not have gotten any ones except from those folks who had to dig out that airline barf bag from their last flight when they looked at it (I dont think it was that bad).

I feel the same way. I don't understand why most of the photos get a couple of ones. A one to me means completely lacking in any technical or artistic merit and completely failing to meet the challenge. I usually give one or two per challenge. Even if I hated the subject and thought the photo was extremely poor technically, it would still rate at least a two or three from me as long as it met the challenge in some way.
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