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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> 550ex and umbrellas
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10/07/2007 06:29:15 PM · #1
these thing worth $99 bucks?

seems like what i am after. portable, wireless, and not too space consuming...

//www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/425220-REG/Impact_DFUMK_Digital_Flash_Umbrella_Mount.html
10/07/2007 06:41:16 PM · #2
Two stands, two umbrellas, two flash brackets ... for $98.95?

Looks a LOT like what I use ... 'cept that I purchased all of mine separately and I'm pretty sure (when you total it all up) that I paid than that. So it looks pretty good to me.
10/07/2007 07:00:04 PM · #3
It doesn't have any lights with it. What do you need them for?
10/07/2007 07:04:29 PM · #4
Originally posted by lovethelight:

It doesn't have any lights with it. What do you need them for?


I'm assuming (from the subject of the thread) that he's planning to put 550EX flashes on them.

That's what I do... I have a 580EX on camera as master and a 420EX and 550EX on stands with flash brackets and umbrellas (just like what you see in the link he provided). It makes for a *very* portable lighting system. I use my studio strobes when I'm in a fixed location, and my Canon flashes when I'm on the move.


10/07/2007 07:07:53 PM · #5
Slightly OT but can you remotely fire a 430ex with anything other than a 550ex? Like a third party master trigger of some sort?

-dave
10/07/2007 07:33:17 PM · #6
oops, not the right answer...

mis-read.

Message edited by author 2007-10-07 19:34:38.
10/07/2007 07:37:41 PM · #7
Originally posted by dknourek:

Slightly OT but can you remotely fire a 430ex with anything other than a 550ex? Like a third party master trigger of some sort?

-dave


I use pocket wizards.
10/07/2007 07:39:21 PM · #8
Originally posted by lovethelight:

It doesn't have any lights with it. What do you need them for?


Well, let's say I have it in a wishlist with two Sunpak 383s. They are manual, non-TTL auto flashes.

About OP, well worth it, if you add up the individual prices.
10/07/2007 07:56:58 PM · #9
- dwterry - how big are your umbrellas, and how well do they work outside for fill? distance wise. shoot through or bounce back?

i have a canon st-e2 wireless transmittor. i imagine that would fire the 430ex...

thanks for the replies ; }


10/07/2007 08:05:54 PM · #10
Soup, I use a 24 inch silver bounce umbrella outside with the Sunpak 333. Get much bigger (down here) and wind becomes a major issue.

I can get about 10-12 feet of usable distance in overcast or early/late hours.

Message edited by author 2007-10-07 20:07:44.
10/07/2007 08:07:49 PM · #11
Originally posted by soup:

- dwterry - how big are your umbrellas, and how well do they work outside for fill? distance wise. shoot through or bounce back?


Had to find the case for one to find out... they are 45" umbrellas (some of them may be a little smaller, but I figure I want the biggest umbrella that I can get, and still be portable).

I'm almost always using it as a shoot thru umbrella. I have a couple of silver umbrellas that I only use when I absolutely must have the most amount of light possible.

Distance wise... you always want to keep your flash close to the subject, for two reasons: 1) the further away it gets, the more power it takes to light the subject, and 2) the closer it is, the softer the light. Of course, if you want harsh light (and sometimes that's really cool too), just take the umbrella off.

Originally posted by soup:

i have a canon st-e2 wireless transmittor. i imagine that would fire the 430ex...


Yup. I've never used one, but that's what it's for.

The main thing I would worry about is that your slave needs to be able to see the master. To that end, I always swivel the body of the slave to point it towards the camera (the flash head points into the umbrella, the flash body is pointed towards the camera so that the infrared sensor can see my flash). But I sometimes point my on-camera flash head (580EX) at the slave, just to guarantee the slave can see it. And I don't know that the ST-E2 can swivel. So keep that in mind... the slave has to be able to see the master or it won't fire.

10/07/2007 08:08:54 PM · #12
Should definitely be a good way to get you started. I have those stands and umbrella mounts (but different umbrellas) and they work great with my Nikon SB-600s and SB-800. I'm pretty sure mine are 43" umbrellas but it really wont matter much. Keep in mind that silver umbrellas will be a lot more efficient, especially if you're using these to shoot outdoors. Also, using the umbrellas "shoot-through" really cuts down the power, but it's all about playing. It's a good price on a good set to get going. Enjoy!
10/07/2007 08:11:54 PM · #13
Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Soup, I use a 24 inch silver bounce umbrella outside with the Sunpak 333. Get much bigger (down here) and wind becomes a major issue.


I think I have my stands tip over at least once every photo shoot! You know ... just to "christen the shoot" or something. LOL

Some day I'm going to put a weight bag in my umbrella case so I can hang weights off the stands. I've gone through a couple of umbrellas by bending them up this way.

Normally I combat the problem by pointing one of the stand's legs in the same direction as the umbrella and, if the wind is too strong, keeping the light down low (though I typically prefer it up high). Actually, if the wind is TOO strong, I take the umbrella off. I never thought of putting smaller umbrellas on the stands!

10/07/2007 08:12:26 PM · #14
cool - thanks again.

the st-e2 is pretty responsive indoors. haven't used it much outside.
no it doesn't swivel.


10/07/2007 08:14:08 PM · #15
use a camera bag, or the stand bag itself with a rock in it... ;}

Originally posted by dwterry:

Some day I'm going to put a weight bag in my umbrella case so I can hang weights off the stands. I've gone through a couple of umbrellas by bending them up this way.

10/07/2007 08:18:43 PM · #16
Bring more models :-)


10/08/2007 06:15:53 PM · #17
i've got a 550ex now, and would just assume get a match to it. that or a 430ex.

thoughts on the second unit? i would jump at the 580ex II - but at this point i have no use for the extra features ( over the 550ex ), and not sure when i'll upgrade bodies.

i have the umbrellas in my cart but would like to make a decision about the flash so the shipping would be cheaper. ebay might be an option for the flash unit, but i don't really like ebay much - and would prefer to buy new.


10/08/2007 07:24:25 PM · #18
Originally posted by soup:

thoughts on the second unit? i would jump at the 580ex II - but at this point i have no use for the extra features ( over the 550ex ), and not sure when i'll upgrade bodies.


Might want to consider the Sigma EF500 Super. Cheaper than the 580EX and 430EX for many of the same features as the 580EX including being a wireless master. It also has a built in optical slave to fire off of any flash.
10/08/2007 07:41:33 PM · #19
well i'm planning on using a canon hot shoe trigger - st-e2.

not sure the sigma would respond.


10/08/2007 08:36:09 PM · #20
IIRC, the 580ex uses the main flashlamp to send commands to the slaves, and I've heard you get more distance than with the ST-E2.

The 580ex gives you 3 flash groups, the ST-E2 gives you only 2.
10/09/2007 09:17:36 AM · #21
I think I have my stands tip over at least once every photo shoot!

I keep two forms of stabilizers in my light bag:
1. Stakes that I can use for soft ground
2. Socks. I filled two ziplocks with sand and taped them shut. I placed them in a long sock. I then used two ties to secure the open end and middle. So I can drape a sock over a leg of the stand. I keep three sock-things in my bag.

Some stands have a place to hang weights. I don't know why they don't make all stands so that you can (a) attach weights to the center and (b) stake down the legs.
10/09/2007 10:13:31 AM · #22
i have that option now with the 550ex, but am trying to avoid having to buy two flash units at this point.

yes the st-e2 only allows two groups. not sure about the distance.

Originally posted by hankk:

IIRC, the 580ex uses the main flashlamp to send commands to the slaves, and I've heard you get more distance than with the ST-E2.

The 580ex gives you 3 flash groups, the ST-E2 gives you only 2.

10/09/2007 10:38:46 AM · #23
I use the ST-E2 to trigger both a 580EX and 430EX off camera. I haven't been using Canon's flash metering system, so only having two groups with the ST-E2 isn't a problem. I just put each flash on manual so each can be adjusted independently, just like in the studio. I also almost always use a shoot through umbrella, but buy a couple because they will get broken.

The optical trigger of the ST-E2 works ok outside. I've only had a couple of situations where it wouldn't trigger and in those cases I just twisted the flash body a bit. At some point I'll move to pocket wizards, but the ST-E2 was less expensive to start and it gives me the option of using Canon's flash metering system if needed for a wedding or some other fast moving event.

You asked about flash power in full sunlight. These two images were captured just a week or so ago with the exact setup we are discussing. The sun was too bright to use as a main light so we used it as a rim light and then used a single 580EX through an umbrella as the main light with an ST-E2 as a trigger. The exposure still had to allow for a very bright environment, but the 580EX was never set above 1/2 power.



I hope you don't mind me attaching a couple of shots, but they seemed to match the setup being discussed and might help with you question about the ability to work outdoors in full sun.
10/09/2007 10:53:02 AM · #24
Originally posted by dwterry:

Originally posted by fotomann_forever:

Soup, I use a 24 inch silver bounce umbrella outside with the Sunpak 333. Get much bigger (down here) and wind becomes a major issue.


I think I have my stands tip over at least once every photo shoot! You know ... just to "christen the shoot" or something. LOL


I "christened" my brand new 580Ex II (my old one died) last week this way. I was doing portraits in an (almost) dry creek last week. 580 in a 60" umbrella, sandbag on the stand. No wind at all, then halfway through the shoot a big gust came up and blew over the setup. Usually the umbrella breaks the fall, but the flash broke the fall on a rock that was jutting out. The flash got a nice gouge on the the top of the head but still worked fine and we continued the shoot. There was still a little water running in the creek, so thankfully it didn't fall in there.
10/09/2007 10:58:52 AM · #25
you find the difference in power to be an issue with the 580/430 combo? i was thinking it might be easier to balance the output if the two flashes were the same power.

ie: 1/2 power on each would produce the same amount of light -vs 1/2 power on the 580 would be more powerful than 1/2 power on the 430...

Originally posted by Nusbaum:

I use the ST-E2 to trigger both a 580EX and 430EX off camera. I haven't been using Canon's flash metering system, so only having two groups with the ST-E2 isn't a problem. I just put each flash on manual so each can be adjusted independently, just like in the studio. I also almost always use a shoot through umbrella, but buy a couple because they will get broken.

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