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10/04/2007 10:00:21 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
It's interesting. That last line does sound like strong language, and I wonder what laws were in mind when this was stated. Still, how is a statement from 1993 news? |
Since someone decided to sensationalise it in his blog :)
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General comment to thread; these are the specifics in BC that apply to reporting;
WHEN PROTECTION IS NEEDED
Section 13 describes the circumstances where a child (person under age 19) needs or is likely to need protection. These circumstances include physical harm, sexual abuse, sexual exploitation, emotional harm, neglect, abandonment and inadequate provision for the child's care and deprivation of required health care.
from college of physicians and surgeons BC
DUTY TO REPORT AND NEED FOR PROTECTION
Section 14 describes the physicians' (and others') legal duty to report to the Ministry for Children & Families immediately if they have reason to believe that a child:
(a) has been, or is likely to be, physically harmed, sexually abused, or sexually exploited by a parent, or other person; or,
(b) needs protection under Section 13 (as outlined above) |
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10/04/2007 10:14:40 PM · #27 |
This reminds me of one early Saturday morning in the ER when the shoe was on the other foot.
A mom brought her two teenage daughters into the ER. Chief Complaint? "I want them checked for sex and drugs."
Message edited by author 2007-10-04 22:14:53. |
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10/04/2007 10:17:38 PM · #28 |
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10/04/2007 10:21:57 PM · #29 |
| Like sexing a baby chick? |
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10/04/2007 10:41:47 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
...Chief Complaint? "I want them checked for sex and drugs." |
LOL, did she also want them checked for Rock 'n Roll?
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10/04/2007 10:46:28 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
...Chief Complaint? "I want them checked for sex and drugs." |
LOL, did she also want them checked for Rock 'n Roll? |
I can hear Blue Oyster Cult in the Background.... And Ian Durry.....
Message edited by author 2007-10-04 22:57:53.
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10/04/2007 11:28:49 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by neophyte:
I can hear Blue Oyster Cult in the Background.... And Ian Durry..... |
I always enjoy watching the direction a thread can take after I release it into the wild. You just never know what you're gonna get. ;)
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10/04/2007 11:36:49 PM · #33 |
I have to say, that I get a little annoyed when you take your child to the ER and the person who admits your child, then the nurse and then the doctor all grill the child on every detail about the injury before attending to the imediate need. As if the two to three hour wait in the waiting room just to be seen isn't long enough to leave your child in pain/danger, they have to prolong it another 15 minutes with questions that border on accusations before they start to attend to the injury. Maybe it wouldn't take so long if they have an official interogator ask the questions while you wait to be called to the doctor, and then the doctor would be free to do his/her emergency care tasks more quickly. Argh! Besides, if we were abusing our kids, why would we bother to take them to the ER at all?? BTW, if your kid smashes his fingers in a car door, did you know its covered by auto insurance?? The world is bizaar.
Bleh, anyway. When I was a teenager and went for my MMR booster, the physician's assistant kept asking me if I was sexually active. It is of course important for her to inform young women receiving the booster of the risks the shot can pose during/near a pregnancy. However, when I told her that I wasn't active she kept asking over and over, and then insisted that I was active. Finally, after this went on for some time, I blurted out to her that I was absolutely not active, I've never had intercourse, I don't plan to until I'm married and that she was out of line to accuse me of lying to her. I asked her what her problem was and told her to just give me the shot so I could get out of there. Then she told me she "has to ask" because of the pregnancy risks. She didn't have to ask anything, she could have just warned me about the risks in the first place. I'm sure that she thought she was just doing her job, but I felt like I was being attacked.
All that said, I like my kids' pediatrician. One of the reasons I like him is that I feel like I can ask him anything and he relates to me as if I am an intelligent and caring parent. He'll look up information for me if he doesn't have it on hand, and his office now is set up so we can even email the doctors there and access our childrens' records online.
I'm glad that in the USA, we can usually choose our doctors. I've had some doctors that weren't very good or just weren't compatible with my personality. I've learned that when choosing a doctor, we should do what anyone does when hiring someone... check references. I call up anyone in the area who might have the sort of doctor I need (ob/gyn, family, dental, eye, whatever), and ask them who they have as a doctor and what they like/don't like about their doctor, if they've had other doctors and why they left that doctor. In doing so, I found an excellent ob/gyn doctor just prior to my third pregancy. I wish I had known to do that back at the beginning, instead of leaving my and my family's health up to random chance. I plan to ask for recommendations for any future doctor that we may need to acquire.
okay, I'll shut up now... :)
*stepping off of soapbox* |
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10/05/2007 12:05:04 AM · #34 |
Yep, I've been grilled. My oldest son broke his arm falling off monkey bars in a park. Soon after his cast was off, my other son fell off the bed and broke his arm. Between these breaks, one of them had to get stitches for a cut on his head. Child abuse for sure. Luckily, I know most of the ER staff and my family doctor is a friend.
We have had doctors ask about guns in the house. We "lectured" them about our 2nd Amendment Right and I love to see the reaction on their faces when I tell them that all our guns are loaded and have been for generations. |
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10/05/2007 12:18:11 AM · #35 |
Oh yeah...
and its not just doctors who are expected to report suspected abuse. So are teachers, youth leaders, scout leaders, religious leaders, counselors and basically anyone who has a legal obligation to your children. If I remember right, there is an 800 number to call and the caller has to provide quite a bit of information.
I'm sure that not every call that they receive is a true case of abuse. However, it is a good thing to have a reporting/investigation system in place to protect children. They can't take a child from a home without strong evidence, and even when there is evidence, there is an effort (in some areas anyway and depending on the issues) to try to remedy the problems that contribute to the abuse to keep the family together.
I've heard of stories where states/counties have misused their power. There is certainly that potential, which is why such things can be scary for parents. But, I don't think that there are many people out there who think every child is being abused, and those that call about every child they encounter, probably get ignored in short order. |
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10/05/2007 12:34:45 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by vtruan:
We "lectured" them about our 2nd Amendment Right and I love to see the reaction on their faces when I tell them that all our guns are loaded and have been for generations. |
LOL!
Sounds like a redneck joke. :) (btw, I might be a redneck, so I can say that. ;) )
We acquired a free gun lock from some fellow running for sheriff at a fair a month or so ago. I have to say its re-assuring to know that if our kids could get to the gun, and then to the bullets that are hidden elsewhere, they would have a very difficult time trying to do anything with it without the key. Probably the bullets themselves would pose the most danger... kids could do a lot with some shot and a little gun powder. My dad and his brothers did when they were kids. At least they hid behind things before they exploded their experiments. |
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10/05/2007 12:44:03 AM · #37 |
Ya, we NEVER saw real abuse in the ER...
(rolls eyes at the "bashing docs cuz their job is easy" direction the thread is taking...) |
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10/05/2007 12:44:26 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by fencekicker:
...its not just doctors who are expected to report suspected abuse. So are teachers, youth leaders, scout leaders, religious leaders, counselors and basically anyone who has a legal obligation to your children. If I remember right, there is an 800 number to call and the caller has to provide quite a bit of information. |
Very true... there are many professions which are mandated reporters. Every county should have an 800 number for reporting abuse.
Originally posted by fencekicker:
I'm sure that not every call that they receive is a true case of abuse. However, it is a good thing to have a reporting/investigation system in place to protect children. |
Many times, there will be reports which are deemed unsubstantiated, but after several reports over time, it may turn out there was abuse after all.
Originally posted by fencekicker:
They can't take a child from a home without strong evidence, and even when there is evidence, there is an effort (in some areas anyway and depending on the issues) to try to remedy the problems that contribute to the abuse to keep the family together. |
Not entirely accurate (at least in California). The county does not necessarily need strong evidence to initially detain a child. Actually, the level of evidence required is surprisingly low. Even to prove the case at trial, the burden that the county needs to meet is "preponderance of the evidence" (in other words, "more likely than not"). The level of proof goes up substantially to "clear and convincing evidence" at the disposition hearing if the county then seeks not to allow the child to return to the home. The disposition hearing is about 1 month after the initial detention (sometimes much more).
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10/05/2007 12:44:46 AM · #39 |
| This is why you vote for Ron Paul. Get your liberties back in the land of the free. |
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10/05/2007 12:49:41 AM · #40 |
Originally posted by Gotaka:
This is why you vote for Ron Paul. Get your liberties back in the land of the free. |
Oooooo! Is this where we begin bashing politicians and get this thread tossed into RANT?
:) |
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10/05/2007 01:38:30 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by _eug:
Originally posted by Gotaka:
This is why you vote for Ron Paul. Get your liberties back in the land of the free. |
Oooooo! Is this where we begin bashing politicians and get this thread tossed into RANT?
:) |
lol. nice sarcasm, but in defense of what I said, you can't really put Ron Paul with the rest of politicians. He is as honest as anyone can get and has never changed his position just to please the crowd. He says the truth and follows the constitution. He truly can make this country a better place. Anyway, that was my rant about Ron Paul. Please don't toss this in the rant section. Case closed. |
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10/05/2007 06:20:24 AM · #42 |
Originally posted by fencekicker:
... Argh! Besides, if we were abusing our kids, why would we bother to take them to the ER at all?? |
You would be amazed at the number of times that people do exactly that, and then try to tell the attending physician that little Johnny fell off of a swing, down the stairs or some other story they believe will sound plausible.
Ray |
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10/05/2007 08:37:03 AM · #43 |
Originally posted by Hye5:
Originally posted by fencekicker:
I'm sure that not every call that they receive is a true case of abuse. However, it is a good thing to have a reporting/investigation system in place to protect children. |
Many times, there will be reports which are deemed unsubstantiated, but after several reports over time, it may turn out there was abuse after all.
Originally posted by fencekicker:
They can't take a child from a home without strong evidence, and even when there is evidence, there is an effort (in some areas anyway and depending on the issues) to try to remedy the problems that contribute to the abuse to keep the family together. |
Not entirely accurate (at least in California). The county does not necessarily need strong evidence to initially detain a child. Actually, the level of evidence required is surprisingly low. Even to prove the case at trial, the burden that the county needs to meet is "preponderance of the evidence" (in other words, "more likely than not"). The level of proof goes up substantially to "clear and convincing evidence" at the disposition hearing if the county then seeks not to allow the child to return to the home. The disposition hearing is about 1 month after the initial detention (sometimes much more). |
Honestly, it doesn't take much more than a suspicious (or malicious) neighbor making a phone call to the police to get your kids taken away by CPS. The burden is not on the authorities to prove that abuse occurred, but rather it is on the parents to disprove the allegations. It's one of the few instances where the accused is considered guilty until proven otherwise.
It's a good thing to get kids away from abuse when it really is happening, but it's a tragedy to break up families over an unproven allegation.
Message edited by author 2007-10-05 08:38:32. |
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10/05/2007 09:19:01 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by fir3bird:
The next time you carry your kid to the doctors office in the US, especially Ma., you might want to be sure you stay at your kids side the entire time. Doctors are being told to ignore ethics, even legal issues to interrogate children about certain subjects.
Parents can no longer be trusted. |
Who in the world lets their kids go back with the doctor alone anyway? We always go in, even when they became teens.
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10/05/2007 09:43:52 AM · #45 |
| Wow. I guess I have been real lucky because I always go back with my daughter and the doctors encourage it. |
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10/05/2007 10:15:41 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Ya, we NEVER saw real abuse in the ER...
(rolls eyes at the "bashing docs cuz their job is easy" direction the thread is taking...) |
If you are talking about my posts, I'm sorry if you think I'm doctor bashing. I don't think your job is easy. In regards to the ER, I'm saying that its more important for doctors to attend to the injuries first (afterall, it IS an emergency). It pisses me off as a parent to be interogated while my child is bouncing up and down in pain. Relieve his/her pain, then ask me and my child the questions.
I'm sure you do see real abuse in the ER, but just because someone takes a child to the ER doesn't mean the person is abusing that child.
Also, while a doctor's job isn't easy, not all doctors are great doctors. Some doctors are themselves abusive. A special degree doesn't make a doctor a god, nor exempt from the flaws of the rest of humanity.
That said, there are also great doctors out there, and I gave some examples in my posts above. We should do our homework and not leave our medical care up to chance when we have to power to do so.
Just my opinion as a parent. |
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10/05/2007 11:55:29 AM · #47 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Ya, we NEVER saw real abuse in the ER...
(rolls eyes at the "bashing docs cuz their job is easy" direction the thread is taking...) |
It would be easier on everyone else if some doctors weren't so full of themselves. |
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10/07/2007 12:54:28 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Ya, we NEVER saw real abuse in the ER...
(rolls eyes at the "bashing docs cuz their job is easy" direction the thread is taking...) |
It would be easier on everyone else if some doctors weren't so full of themselves. |
What's that supposed to mean?
I was point out that plenty of abuse shows up in the ER. Parents who abuse their children often actually care for them but lack coping mechanisms and do things they immediately regret. They then take them to the ER to seek care and feel compelled to lie to protect themselves.
I would also point out that eventually parents are going to have to let their children go. Do you think your teen is going to talk about their sexual activity, their drug use, their drinking, or even much more innocent things like questions about their body when their parents are sitting right there? Sure, go in the room with them, I'd do that too because I want to know what the doc thinks, but give your child 5 minutes or whatever to be with the doc alone. If you are worried about the doc somehow then either a) find a new doc or b) ask for a chaperone (a female nurse). Most offices are more than happy to comply with that as it protects the doctor from false allegations later anyway. This is most important with teens. If your child is six or eight, then I don't think it's necessary.
Anyway, I don't appreciate the personal attack Spaz.
Message edited by author 2007-10-07 12:55:44. |
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10/07/2007 01:52:55 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Ya, we NEVER saw real abuse in the ER...
(rolls eyes at the "bashing docs cuz their job is easy" direction the thread is taking...) |
It would be easier on everyone else if some doctors weren't so full of themselves. |
What's that supposed to mean?
I was point out that plenty of abuse shows up in the ER. Parents who abuse their children often actually care for them but lack coping mechanisms and do things they immediately regret. They then take them to the ER to seek care and feel compelled to lie to protect themselves.
I would also point out that eventually parents are going to have to let their children go. Do you think your teen is going to talk about their sexual activity, their drug use, their drinking, or even much more innocent things like questions about their body when their parents are sitting right there? Sure, go in the room with them, I'd do that too because I want to know what the doc thinks, but give your child 5 minutes or whatever to be with the doc alone. If you are worried about the doc somehow then either a) find a new doc or b) ask for a chaperone (a female nurse). Most offices are more than happy to comply with that as it protects the doctor from false allegations later anyway. This is most important with teens. If your child is six or eight, then I don't think it's necessary.
Anyway, I don't appreciate the personal attack Spaz. |
It means that there are a large number of doctors that have some belief that they are above everyone else. Since they often hold a patient's fate in their hands, they are obviously (in their eyes anyway), some sort of minor deity and should be treated accordingly.
Did I mention you by name in my reply? No. Did I refer to you specifically? No. I only referred to some doctors. I've had enough experience dealing with doctors to know that the problem and attitude is not uncommon with doctors. As for the nature of the comment, it's only personal if the description applies to you. |
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10/07/2007 03:21:17 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Did I mention you by name in my reply? No. Did I refer to you specifically? No. I only referred to some doctors. I've had enough experience dealing with doctors to know that the problem and attitude is not uncommon with doctors. As for the nature of the comment, it's only personal if the description applies to you. |
Well, at best you are guilty of unclear motives. If you quote a doctor from a post 10 posts up and say that some docs are full of themselves, what's the reasonable response?
I'm quite sure you were aware of the implication as you did not go out of your way to smooth things over in your response when called on it. Instead you continue to go on the offensive. I don't buy your "I didn't do anything" excuse at all.
Maybe if some people from Michigan would think about what they say before they say it... |
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