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09/19/2007 01:12:14 PM · #26 |
Sweet, a rant about images not meeting a challenge. We haven't had one of those in 10 minutes. I was starting to get nervous.
ps ... How the heck do you know if that flower was in the process of opening or not? It shows the exact same amount of movement as your entry, which I'm sure you believe fits perfectly. |
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09/19/2007 01:17:00 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Spazmo99:
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
I see voters reward DNMCs -- why do we even bother with challenge themes?
Opening was to show something in the ACT of opening. A VERB, not a noun.
Both the second and third place finishes -- and many more -- took the noun route. Or showed something LOOSELY considered "already open" This isn't a shoehorn situation. It's a pretty clear distinction.
The photos are great, but as we see once again, DID NOT MEET CHALLENGE.
Ok, I'm done. |
I agree, all entries should be submitted to you for review to determine if the submission meets the challenge or not. Those that do may go on to be voted on by the less enlightened masses. Those that do not will be banned from DPC for 2 months. |
Hardy har har.
I just (wrongly it appears) assumed people could read and interpret basic English... It's not bad that people entered DNMC images. It's bad that the voters ignored the theme TOO.
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09/19/2007 01:17:31 PM · #28 |
It's definitely opening. Have you ever looked at a fully-open water lily? Wayyyy more flattened out. Fits the challenge perfectly, thanks!
(and stunning image, to boot)
Btw Hawkeye, if your entry took a 6 second exposure, shouldn't we see some motion blur if, indeed, it's in the act of opening and not merely being held to look as if it is? Correct me if I'm wrong :)
Message edited by author 2007-09-19 13:20:36. |
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09/19/2007 01:20:40 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Simms:
Whilst I would be classed by the masses as a DNMC Nazi (I hate shoe-horning and will mark an image down massively if the title has indeed shoehorned the image into the challenge),but even I would apply a bit more latitude to your rather strict interpretation of the challenge.
Maybe this rant is becuse you are not happy with your score. However I would probably say that your entry DNMC either, going by your reasoning.
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#1. No, I'm not unhappy with my score. I scored higher than I hoped with the results I got. The photo in my head was MUCH better. :) I actually think a couple of the other attempts at the same thing pulled it off way better than I managed to.
#2. It would be a far stretch to say mine DNMC. The box is clearly in a state of being opened.
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09/19/2007 01:22:19 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
but for most of the voters on this particular challenge, it meets the challenge, period. |
Sorry, but this is not a correct statement. Clearly, as has been seen in other challenges, the voters often IGNORE the challenge theme -- not endorse an images adherence to it.
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09/19/2007 01:23:30 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by willhadl:
I have to agree HawkeyeLonewolf your image is as much of a DNMC as my dads I see no evidence of the lid in motion as far as I can tell it is in a fixed position or closing, for that matter only the title indicates that the lid may be opening. My Dads cave opening shot scotthadl is a noun and a verb as erosion is steadily making the opening larger witnessed by time only.
I vote liberally in these challenges as this is intended to be fun and provides opportunity to get out of your normal shooting style. |
Not even close, but I do see how you could stretch and reach that the pool is continually "opening". Like I said, it is a great shot.
If you close your eyes, you could imagine mine DNMC.
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09/19/2007 01:25:03 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by levyj413:
But I also think people are far too restrictive in allowing there may be other interpretations beyond their own understanding of the world.
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Agreed... and I'm pretty loose -- except in cases like this one where it was as you said "Crystal Clear".
Oh well.
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09/19/2007 01:25:32 PM · #33 |
You guys do realize that the purpose of this website is to have fun, gain experience and receive real world feedback.
You are not going to "win" anything for getting a higher score.
The people have voted the way the perceived the image, not everyone is going to have the same opinion. |
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09/19/2007 01:26:36 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by BeeCee:
It's definitely opening. Have you ever looked at a fully-open water lily? Wayyyy more flattened out. Fits the challenge perfectly, thanks!
(and stunning image, to boot)
Btw Hawkeye, if your entry took a 6 second exposure, shouldn't we see some motion blur if, indeed, it's in the act of opening and not merely being held to look as if it is? Correct me if I'm wrong :) |
You are. The resulting image conveys opening. The image does not carry with it the exposure time, nor does that play a part in the judging of the image (which is not shown during voting).
So, nice try, but yep. You're wrong.
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09/19/2007 01:26:54 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by GueDesigns:
You guys do realize that the purpose of this website is to have fun, gain experience and receive real world feedback.
You are not going to "win" anything for getting a higher score.
The people have voted the way the perceived the image, not everyone is going to have the same opinion. |
Horse = dead.
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09/19/2007 01:30:37 PM · #36 |
| Hmn. These were two extremely difficult challenges (opening and closing) for those who pay attention to language. Didn't enter because my attempts didn't meet my own expectations, though seeing the results I wish I had. (Actually I did, but I was too close to the wire because I dithered). Trying to meet the challenge is, for me, an opportunity to learn something; meeting it well is a matter of personal satisfaction. DPC operates on many levels - we are free to choose and that is not a bad thing. And we've said all this before; possibly those of us for whom meeting the challenge is prime should reflect this more in our comments - not with more DNMC but with more MC!! |
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09/19/2007 01:31:27 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by tnun:
Hmn. These were two extremely difficult challenges (opening and closing) for those who pay attention to language. Didn't enter because my attempts didn't meet my own expectations, though seeing the results I wish I had. (Actually I did, but I was too close to the wire because I dithered). Trying to meet the challenge is, for me, an opportunity to learn something; meeting it well is a matter of personal satisfaction. DPC operates on many levels - we are free to choose and that is not a bad thing. And we've said all this before; possibly those of us for whom meeting the challenge is prime should reflect this more in our comments - not with more DNMC but with more MC!! |
Well said!!!
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09/19/2007 01:36:53 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by GueDesigns:
You guys do realize that the purpose of this website is to have fun, gain experience and receive real world feedback.
You are not going to "win" anything for getting a higher score.
The people have voted the way the perceived the image, not everyone is going to have the same opinion. |
Horse = dead. |
What does that even mean?
...and why are you so angry? |
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09/19/2007 01:54:33 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by BeeCee:
It's definitely opening. Have you ever looked at a fully-open water lily? Wayyyy more flattened out. Fits the challenge perfectly, thanks!
(and stunning image, to boot)
Btw Hawkeye, if your entry took a 6 second exposure, shouldn't we see some motion blur if, indeed, it's in the act of opening and not merely being held to look as if it is? Correct me if I'm wrong :) |
You are. The resulting image conveys opening. The image does not carry with it the exposure time, nor does that play a part in the judging of the image (which is not shown during voting).
So, nice try, but yep. You're wrong. |
So, by your own reasoning, to anyone who knows anything about water lilies "the resulting image conveys opening" just as clearly as your image. Merely because you don't see/know/understand doesn't mean it ain't so! :) |
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09/19/2007 03:01:43 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
Originally posted by BeeCee:
It's definitely opening. Have you ever looked at a fully-open water lily? Wayyyy more flattened out. Fits the challenge perfectly, thanks!
(and stunning image, to boot)
Btw Hawkeye, if your entry took a 6 second exposure, shouldn't we see some motion blur if, indeed, it's in the act of opening and not merely being held to look as if it is? Correct me if I'm wrong :) |
You are. The resulting image conveys opening. The image does not carry with it the exposure time, nor does that play a part in the judging of the image (which is not shown during voting).
So, nice try, but yep. You're wrong. |
In fact, when viewing the entries I actually thought yours was CLOSING, so marked it as a one since it DNMC. |
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09/19/2007 03:05:16 PM · #41 |
| I thought the winning closing was opening or at least just holding...lol |
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09/19/2007 03:21:28 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by HawkeyeLonewolf:
But don't harp on ME being STRICT, when I simply took the time to READ the challenge theme and not jump on the one word title of the challenge. |
You've encountered reality as it is expressed at DPC my friend. You either accept it, or not. If you continue tilting at windmills, I suspect you'll be swallowed by a white whale. We really appreciate the fact that you take time to comment on our images. If you'd like some friendly advice... many people see "S%&T" when they see DNMC. Maybe a comment like: "I can't personally relate your image to the challenge, but "this" is what I really like about it. And "this" might be better as "this".
It seems the more I comment on images the better mine become. I hope you find the same.
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09/19/2007 03:54:53 PM · #43 |
Much kudos to you for understanding the challenge clearly!
BUT SOOOOO bad that you are so bummed out because of that while the ribboners and others are dancing to happy tunes. ^_^
Message edited by author 2007-09-19 22:53:59. |
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09/20/2007 08:21:58 AM · #44 |
I can undertand Hawkeye's disappointment. For the people who actually go out and TRY to meet the challenge, it's incredibly frusterating to see people who take pictures and say "Now which challenge can I squeeze this into..." It's even more frusterating when they're rewarded for that.
Now I agree with the satement that DPC is for fun. But it's not much fun having voters tell you you should have ignored the challenge theme completely to do well. |
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09/20/2007 09:01:34 AM · #45 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
The 2nd and 3rd place entries may rely heavily on their titles for any sense of opening, but the title IS an integral part of the entry, and perhaps no less important in communicating the concept than composition or lighting. |
Then why bother with a description?
And I *still* wanna know WTF is up with people who state during voting that something doesn't meet the "Spirit of the Challenge" when the description is NA.
I gots to agree with Hawkeye that the entries in question really do not meet the description.
Part of the reason I did not enter was due to verbiage.....(pun intended)
I could not come up with a suitable shot that made either opening or closing a verb.
I could come up with openings in the noun sense all day long.
But.....that wasn't the challenge description, now was it?
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09/20/2007 09:11:40 AM · #46 |
Originally posted by JBHale:
I can undertand Hawkeye's disappointment. For the people who actually go out and TRY to meet the challenge, it's incredibly frusterating to see people who take pictures and say "Now which challenge can I squeeze this into..." It's even more frusterating when they're rewarded for that.
Now I agree with the satement that DPC is for fun. But it's not much fun having voters tell you you should have ignored the challenge theme completely to do well. |
And to add to that, remember the old 3rd grade thing?
"If everybody jumped off a cliff, would you?"
Just because someone entered an image that did well and both the entrant and the votors ignored the challenge description doesn't mean that it did the best job of meeting the challenge.
Truth be told, I think the Posthumous Ribbons of the Week are starting to reward honest challenge entries more than the challenges.
At least there, you're genuinely rewarded for a good effort to meet the challenge in the pure sense of the description.....at least from what I've seen by watching the results.
And the exchanges amongst the nominators and nominees are decent and constructive.
Just my opinion.....YMMV!
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09/20/2007 09:44:26 AM · #47 |
| I offered a solution that I believe would be effective in allowing the DNMC to move in a different direction, but it seems the general concensus was that it was more fun to complain about DNMC in the forums than to work on a solution. |
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09/20/2007 09:52:56 AM · #48 |
Originally posted by hopper:
Sweet, a rant about images not meeting a challenge. We haven't had one of those in 10 minutes. I was starting to get nervous. |
So how is it that someone can't honestly question the results of a challenge without getting blasted?
Did you have anything legitimate to add to the discussion, or just a snide remark?
How can you read the question and not see that though the voters chose otherwise, that Hawkeye's question is well-founded?
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09/20/2007 09:56:13 AM · #49 |
If I read your suggestion correctly, it assumes that the DNMC entries are obvious and therefore easy to pick out of the challenge. Many of these debates stem from an inability to agree on what does, and what does not meet the challenge topic.
Who decides the DNMC? And once they've been removed from a challenge (possibly embarassing someone who thought it met the challenge), what's the motivation to vote on them? They'd simply be ignored by most people.
I think the current system is fine, but the problem is that the general feeling on DPC is that if you aren't going to give a high vote, you should ignore the entry ... that's silliness. We should be encouraging everyone to use the entire scale from 1 to 10. What good is the scale if it's poor manners to use from 1 to 3? If an image obviously doesn't fit in the challenge (all red image in a green challenge), then give it a 1 - that's what the 1 is there for. If everyone agrees with you, it won't win .... and if it does win, perhaps you missed something during voting that everyone else saw.
Originally posted by eschelar:
I offered a solution that I believe would be effective in allowing the DNMC to move in a different direction, but it seems the general concensus was that it was more fun to complain about DNMC in the forums than to work on a solution. |
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09/20/2007 09:58:50 AM · #50 |
Hawkeye's question gets asked every week.
My legitimate addition came just after you decided to stop quoting me.
How is it that it's ok to start a thread blasting every voter on dpc?
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by hopper:
Sweet, a rant about images not meeting a challenge. We haven't had one of those in 10 minutes. I was starting to get nervous. |
So how is it that someone can't honestly question the results of a challenge without getting blasted?
Did you have anything legitimate to add to the discussion, or just a snide remark?
How can you read the question and not see that though the voters chose otherwise, that Hawkeye's question is well-founded? |
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