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01/27/2004 10:37:11 AM · #1 |
| Help I'm being robbed. I just finished voting on all the Zodiac Shots and looking at my score. I could just scream... Van |
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01/27/2004 11:09:50 AM · #2 |
Zodiac Signs? has not started yet...do you mean the "painting with light" challenge?
Message edited by author 2004-01-27 11:10:24.
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01/27/2004 11:10:29 AM · #3 |
| Chinese zodiac has already started. |
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01/27/2004 11:12:17 AM · #4 |
| why do you want to scream? |
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01/27/2004 11:28:30 AM · #5 |
| So many are so bad, and mine, to me, is better than the 4.6 I'm getting. That why. Yea Chinese Zodiac, sorry. Van |
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01/27/2004 11:41:56 AM · #6 |
Van, please help me as I try to understand... I'm new at this.
Your profile shows that you have cast almost 15,000 votes with an average vote of 4.48
It appears the vote (4.6) on the Chinese Zodiac suggest that the picture you submitted is above the average mark that you apply to everyone else. Why so sad?
(Edited to insert "votes" after 15,000.)
Message edited by author 2004-01-27 11:43:44. |
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01/27/2004 11:53:20 AM · #7 |
Originally posted by garrywhite2:
Van, please help me as I try to understand... I'm new at this.
Your profile shows that you have cast almost 15,000 votes with an average vote of 4.48
It appears the vote (4.6) on the Chinese Zodiac suggest that the picture you submitted is above the average mark that you apply to everyone else. Why so sad?
(Edited to insert "votes" after 15,000.) |
Very well put.
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01/27/2004 12:56:08 PM · #8 |
I admit I'm a tough voter, my average is low do to mostly I have little tolerance to photos not meeting the challenge(they all get from 3 down to 1, IMO as it should be) in my eyes. The photo I submitted this challenge, I thought, was at least a mid-5 or higher. I'm too off the wall to get many high scores and do not expect many high votes. Like a good skier, you have to fall numerous times to be a powder skier and I'm still learning , falling, and having fun. Sometimes you know a shot is better than the rating you are getting/or get. When the challenge is over, feel free to rip my shot appart, I need the critique to learn or just send a smiley face. Van
Message edited by author 2004-01-27 12:57:25. |
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01/27/2004 01:05:47 PM · #9 |
hmmm... very interesting posts here. Van, too bad about your shot. Like mine, you think it's good & better than others (very subjective BTW) but obviously others do not agree. another thing, entries meeting the challenge is often very subjective especially with thsi being an international site & all. Dunno where you are but giving WAY low scores is kinda unfair, at least IMO. I admit that some are blatantly inappropriate for certain challenges while others I just dont get but that's me.
Personally I dont get folks who have super low average votes. There are so many great shots here that the low ave seems unwarranted.
But that's just my opinion. Not judging how you do things.
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01/27/2004 01:07:48 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by vtruan:
I admit I'm a tough voter, my average is low do to mostly I have little tolerance to photos not meeting the challenge(they all get from 3 down to 1, IMO as it should be) in my eyes. |
As where most people only take away 1 to 3 points for not meeting the challenge and then vote on the shot from that point. To take away anywhere from 7 to 9 points because it didn't meet the challenge, even if it's an excellent shot is more than tough, it's also mean, IMHO. :)
Deannda
Not meeting the challenge loses two points with me
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01/27/2004 01:27:56 PM · #11 |
AHEM.
Just because the average photo on DPC is not very good (I'm sorry, but no matter what I think of my own work, I do feel that more than half of what gets submitted here qualifies mainly as "snapshots"), it doesn't mean that this is what should qualify as an average score for an average photo. My idea of an average photo and what comes out to be an average photo on the DPC are completely different things.
Obviously none of us can say how good or bad we think van's photo actually is at this stage since we don't know what it is, but to suggest that he should be satisfied with his score based on the fact that it is higher than what he has deemed the average score on the DPC makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Whether he deserves his score is entirely beside the point.
Assuming you strive to take professional quality photos for submission to the DPC, to use your own voting average as a measure against your own work doesn't make sense in an environment where the average photo is actually a below average photo in the professional world.
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01/27/2004 01:40:25 PM · #12 |
Deannda,
Some will agree with you, but this is a challenge site and we have a definite subject and time frame to do the subject. I feel a shot that is beautiful, and I agree there are many, but doesn't meet the challenge, compared to a semi-good shot that does meet the challenge, shouldn't be graded higher, just because it is perfectly done. What is the subject of our photo community here. I have many scores that were questionable as to being interpreted as not meeting the challenge, but that was my fault for not doing a great job of meeting the challenge or being a bit off the wall in my thoughts. I didn't do a very good job on painting with light, and deserve the score I'm getting do to my miss reading what the challenge example ment.
In my ratings, a 4 meets the challenge and I rate from there up to a 10. I don't start at 10 and work down. So, a 4 in my opinion meets the challenge, but isn't a very quality shot, but they at least met the challenge. A perfectly beautiful photo might be a 3 if it does not meet the challenge. But I think I'm consistent in my scores. So I have to say if this is being mean, then I am a Tiger not a little kitten. Van
Message edited by author 2004-01-27 13:46:32. |
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01/27/2004 01:53:54 PM · #13 |
I'm only disappointed with the voting on my picture because it seems people are seeing a 13 k version of the image I uploaded when it was much larger than that when I uploaded - don't have a clue yet of why that is the case. Still haven't been able to find a way to get to the bottom of it. I don't mind getting low votes because people don't like what I'm trying but I really feel shortchanged if I get low votes for things that I have no control over. If I can't figure out why the file got smaller when I uploaded it, I won't be able to enter any more challenges. Bummer.
I should add that I take photos at the highest quality jpg or, preferably, as tiffs with no compression at all. So, to make the image small enough to fit the challenge limitations, I had to resize the image. I used PhotoShop though and it clearly states the resultant size. Somehow, the image lost 73 K during the upload process. Just don't see how yet.
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01/27/2004 02:26:38 PM · #14 |
Dear Van!
Could you please post here some links of photos, where you voted 1 or 2, then is more easier to understand why your zodiac is voted low...
BR,
Sirje
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01/27/2004 02:41:21 PM · #15 |
I don't understand how someones average vote cast should relate to the score they Receive? It is like saying that if you vote all shots over a 7 your photo's deserve to get ribbons.
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01/27/2004 02:42:50 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by Neuferland:
As where most people only take away 1 to 3 points for not meeting the challenge and then vote on the shot from that point. To take away anywhere from 7 to 9 points because it didn't meet the challenge, even if it's an excellent shot is more than tough, it's also mean, IMHO. :)
Deannda
Not meeting the challenge loses two points with me |
For me, not meeting the challenge is a one. If there were an option for zero that's what I would vote. I don't see it as a question of taking away points rather just not awarding any. |
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01/27/2004 02:46:07 PM · #17 |
How credible is the complaint that judging on a particular image is too harsh, when the person complaining has a long history of judging other entries very harshly?
And yes Darcy, I would expect that should you receive a higher score than your 4.5 avg vote cast, that you would not come here and complain that the voting process was too harsh.
Van, I commend and respect you for your honesty in answering the questions. Thanks for the reply. |
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01/27/2004 02:47:23 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:
For me, not meeting the challenge is a one. If there were an option for zero that's what I would vote. I don't see it as a question of taking away points rather just not awarding any. |
I totally agree - the rules themselves say "While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly." To me that says meeting the challenge is one of the most important aspects in voting. A shot that doesn't meet the challange to me won't get above a 4.
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01/27/2004 02:48:10 PM · #19 |
Serji,
Here are three examples of 1s I gave.
Nothing personal to the photographers, I just found three in three challenges that I rated. Van
 Macro
 Money (with not showing real money)
 Still Life |
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01/27/2004 02:49:59 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by tjuneau13:
I don't understand how someones average vote cast should relate to the score they Receive? It is like saying that if you vote all shots over a 7 your photo's deserve to get ribbons. |
I think it's more about if you consistently give others a low score, why come here and complain about others giving you a low score. |
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01/27/2004 03:23:20 PM · #21 |
Thanks Van
I have an idea.
Why cant be so, that every time if somebody is voting 1-3 he/she MUST add a comment, then is easy to understand, why my score is low.
I personally do not vote any more (I did it when I started) 1-3, cause I do not want to do for others smth which I do not like to get.
But every time when I vote 10, then I add a comment. So is easy to find a photo after voting.
SIrjE
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01/27/2004 03:38:15 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by kinks:
Thanks Van
I have an idea.
Why cant be so, that every time if somebody is voting 1-3 he/she MUST add a comment, then is easy to understand, why my score is low.
I personally do not vote any more (I did it when I started) 1-3, cause I do not want to do for others smth which I do not like to get.
But every time when I vote 10, then I add a comment. So is easy to find a photo after voting.
SIrjE |
I agree with the vote range 1-3 to every out of topic. A complete out wins 1 (like the cat in macro challenge). Other strange but equally out with a good photography (that is rare...) wins 2-3. I vote this way all the time.
I´m compreensive, but save my time sometimes! In some challenges are so many 1-3 that simply a copy and paste a saved comment to explain that is out of topic. But in many cases where almost all are low score, I preffer to save my fingers to write some eluding thing to someone that is trying to improve your skills and take serious your photography and this site! |
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01/27/2004 04:02:20 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by kinks:
Thanks Van
I have an idea.
Why cant be so, that every time if somebody is voting 1-3 he/she MUST add a comment, then is easy to understand, why my score is low.
I personally do not vote any more (I did it when I started) 1-3, cause I do not want to do for others smth which I do not like to get.
But every time when I vote 10, then I add a comment. So is easy to find a photo after voting.
SIrjE |
The new rules encourage folks to do just that.
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01/27/2004 04:07:30 PM · #24 |
garry,
People can complain about whatever they want, and people can argue against the reasons why someone is complaining, but your argument just doesn't hold water.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the way people vote here. If people here vote on a bell curve, where every photo in a challenge influences the way they judge every other photo, then maybe you're close to having a point.
But I imagine that when people vote here they vote on the photo's integrity in the scope of professional photography, not just compared to other DPC entries. I personally feel that this is the responsible way to vote in that it helps people guage and improve their photography not just within the microcosm of DPC, but in the world of photography in general.
Its a simple matter of not shooting the messanger. If the majority of photos on the DPC don't meet the 5 grade, either because they are off-topic or poorly executed, that doesn't mean that a photgrapher should be pleased when their photo exceeds the 5 mark. My average vote cast is just over a 4.5. That doesn't mean that I feel a 4.5 is an average, or acceptable score for a decent photo. It means that a lot of the photos I've seen here are less than decent, and for the sake of the photographer I scored them accordingly. When I first arrived here I submitted some pretty crummy shots, and they got scored low, in the 3's. If they had been scored higher, I never would have looked hard enough at my photography to see that it needed improvement. But because they scored low, I did rethink my approach and have since improved dramatically. I'm scoring high 5's now, with my sights set on 6 and beyond.
Just look at the current street signs challenge. Well over half of those submissions are snapshots at best, with little to no apparent thought put into composition or style. If we are to uphold professional standards on this site, submissions like these need to be scored accordingly. If that means that people end up with low scores for their average votes cast, then that can hardly be the fault of that person, and they can hardly be expected to use that score as a means to judge their own performance by.
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01/27/2004 04:15:55 PM · #25 |
Wow, had no idea so many people did vote so low for off topic shots, my mistake and apologies for assuming to speak for others.
I thought I knew what the site was about but color me wrong once again. Guess I better go back to the current challenges and change some votes for any that I feel are off topic, NOT! Sorry but I will take away points for being off topic but if the shot is above average it will get better than a 1, 2 or 3 from me. If that's wrong then cancel my membership right now and throw me out :)
My point is this, everyone is going to view each challenge differently, there have been a few where I left a comment stating that I thought the shot was off topic and the person was nice enough to PM me and let me know how they felt it did fit the challenge. I went back, looked again and could see their point. Yes, sometimes they were reaching but all in all still met the challenge on some level. The only one that did not get any sympathy from me was the money challenge, it was very specific but I still didn't give low scores just for that reason.
The current PWL challenge is a perfect example of how people are seeing each shot differently, I know I painted my subject with light but to some it was a stationary light and that's fine, with my camera and a 3 second window I had to do what I could with what I had. But my score is reflecting the fact that people don't think I met the challenge and that's fine, that's their choice.
Okay, enough on this subject, time to go change my son's third stinky diaper and dance with him. Ooooooooooooooooo, baby powder and his bare bottom for the THings that go together challenge, LOL!
Deannda
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