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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Voting on images considered "DNMC"
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09/05/2007 08:46:14 AM · #1
I'm a newbie here, so this issue might already have been discussed dozens of times... (You may slap me in this case and direct me to the relevant posts, thanks.)

I consider myself very tolerant when it comes to creative interpretations of a challenge topics. However, I had a hard time voting for the current Challenge "Power". The challenge description reads "Your image should convey the feeling of power to the viewer.". In my opinion, many of the pictures do not meet this requirement.

However, some of these pictures are really beautiful and I'd feel bad giving them a low rating just because they do not fit the challenge. At the same time it would not be right if they won... Can you see my dilemma?

Whether a picture meets the challenge or not is often a question of opinion and not as clear as whether the editing rules have been respected. However, one could consider adding a checkbox like "I think this picture does not meet the challenge." to the voting process. Ratings would be given as if the picture met the challenge, but if a certain percentage of voters considered a picture "DNMC", it would get some kind of "soft disqualification" and be ranked after all the entries meeting the challenge.

And if this was done after a quick review process, tragedies like this one could be prevented:

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/731/thumb/576487.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/731/thumb/576487.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Let me know what you think. Thanks,

Sam
09/05/2007 09:02:34 AM · #2
The search function would produce a plethora of results on this topic.
09/05/2007 09:13:39 AM · #3
I think allowing a simple description of what we're seeing -- without any identifying comments -- should be allowed.

However, votes should be NOT for the great photo, but for the great photo MEETING THE THEME.

To be fair anyway.
09/05/2007 09:18:01 AM · #4
Of course, you're right, CEJ. This is a recent one that mentions pretty much all the possible options: DNMC Bag for Challenges

However, there does not seem to be a conclusion. Is this such a controversial topic that we could never find an acceptable solution?
09/05/2007 09:28:04 AM · #5
Originally posted by Sam94720:

Of course, you're right, CEJ. This is a recent one that mentions pretty much all the possible options: DNMC Bag for Challenges

However, there does not seem to be a conclusion. Is this such a controversial topic that we could never find an acceptable solution?


Not sure I see why it's so controversial. If your photo does not fit the theme, it deserves the low votes it gets. Pretty simple and I don't see why the site needs to code some special "time-out" area. As with kids, spanking works far better.
09/05/2007 09:30:24 AM · #6
I fail to see how not meeting the challenge in some of the voters opinion or many voters not understanding the connection of the photo to the theme is a "tragedy". Meeting the theme is part of the deal and communicating that connection (without a paragraph for the title) is the responsibility of the artist, i.e. photographer. I also fail to see the need to do anything special for the photos that fail to communicate their connection to the voters. Simply explain the connection in the photographer's comments and enlighten us.....Sorry. Just my opinion.
09/05/2007 09:58:00 AM · #7
Originally posted by Sam94720:

However, there does not seem to be a conclusion. Is this such a controversial topic that we could never find an acceptable solution?


There NEVER will be a conclusion either. People see and interpret things differently. So vote YOUR conscience and be happy.

From the voting rules: "consider the challenge topic when voting, and adjust your score accordingly."
09/05/2007 10:07:14 AM · #8
There are many threads on DNMC. The reason for these threads is that each of us on DPC have a different opinion and outlook on things - including how to interpret a challenge. We have people entering from all around the world, with many different backgrounds and experiences.

It is my opinion, and those of others on the site, that challenge descriptions should be a guide for what to enter in a photographic challenge. Often the challenge descriptions are left purposefully broad and general, allowing the artists (photographers) that enter to interpret the challenge as they see it in their world. Forcing a very specific and closed interpretation will prevent artistic freedom and new ideas. I believe that it is our job as voters to open our minds to a more broad interpretation as well. This will make the site a more enjoyable and rewarding place to visit.

IMO, The photographer's job is to take a quality image AND to tell a photographic story that supports the theme of the challenge. The photographers job is also to portray the challenge to the voters in a way that connects. The better the photog does this, the higher the score will likely be.

It is our job as voters to vote on image for quality of photography AND how well we feel the image meets the challenge. How each of us individual voters decide to place the weighting of each is up to the individual.

Since this is primarily a photography site, I tend to feel that images that are well taken should be rated higher, and it is my job to try and understand the connection of the photo to the challenge as best I can. If I don't see any connection, I will likely take the image down a couple of points, but it is because I don't feel the photographer did a good enough job reaching me. But, the photography will take priority.
09/05/2007 10:51:54 AM · #9
Originally posted by bassbone:

Since this is primarily a photography site, I tend to feel that images that are well taken should be rated higher, and it is my job to try and understand the connection of the photo to the challenge as best I can. If I don't see any connection, I will likely take the image down a couple of points, but it is because I don't feel the photographer did a good enough job reaching me. But, the photography will take priority.


I think you're wrong in how you're voting.

But I also think you're right to vote how you feel best.

Does that make sense?

Some will vote like you, penalizing very little for the photographer's failing to do their job correctly. Others will see it as a package deal.

If J. Jonah Jameson tells you to go out and get pictures of Spider-man and you bring back the most awesome pictures of a bunny eating carrots romping in the flora, you will be fired. Or re-assigned to the garden section.

So the theme IS important.
09/05/2007 10:58:36 AM · #10
Ummm...didn't we just have this conversation a week ago?

Oh well, let 'er rip. ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/447738.gif', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/447738.gif', '/') + 1) . '
09/05/2007 11:01:03 AM · #11
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Ummm...didn't we just have this conversation a week ago?

Oh well, let 'er rip. ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/447738.gif', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/447738.gif', '/') + 1) . '


Yup but heck lets do it one more time! I think I will have some of that popcorn! ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/447738.gif', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/447738.gif', '/') + 1) . '' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/447738.gif', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/447738.gif', '/') + 1) . '
09/05/2007 11:01:39 AM · #12
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Ummm...didn't we just have this conversation a week ago?

Oh well, let 'er rip. ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/447738.gif', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/447738.gif', '/') + 1) . '


Yup but heck lets do it one more time! I think I will have some of that popcorn! ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/447738.gif', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/447738.gif', '/') + 1) . '' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/447738.gif', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/447738.gif', '/') + 1) . '


I'll just sit over here with these guys and watch the action. Pass the popcorn. :)
09/05/2007 11:12:47 AM · #13
Originally posted by idnic:


I'll just sit over here with these guys and watch the action. Pass the popcorn. :)


' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/447738.gif', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/447738.gif', '/') + 1) . '

Here ya go! Feels like old times. :-D
09/05/2007 11:19:31 AM · #14
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:


' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/447738.gif', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/447738.gif', '/') + 1) . '

Here ya go! Feels like old times. :-D

ssshhhhh! I think we're in the quiet part of the show. :P

BTW - Anyone seen the popcorn maker? Could be running low here soon.
09/05/2007 11:27:14 AM · #15
"Too much consideration, IMO, is given to voters and commenters to rate entries by topicality, and this stance is stressed in the rules. While I am all for challenges in the general spirit we conduct them, I feel that by encouraging voters to sit in judgment of matters they cannot, reasonably, be expected to fathom and, thus, appreciate, we encourage conflict and tedious discussion largely external to photography and art.

The energy wasted and lost here, IMO, could better be invested, if it were understood that an emphasis on topicality existed for the creative benefit of the entrants and not for the righteous glee of the uninitiated."
09/05/2007 11:31:39 AM · #16
Originally posted by zeuszen:

The energy wasted and lost here, IMO, could better be invested, if it were understood that an emphasis on topicality existed for the creative benefit of the entrants and not for the righteous glee of the uninitiated."

OUCH! Dangit. Oh, sorry. That's just me biting my tongue.
09/05/2007 11:32:12 AM · #17
Originally posted by zeuszen:

"Too much consideration, IMO, is given to voters and commenters to rate entries by topicality, and this stance is stressed in the rules. While I am all for challenges in the general spirit we conduct them, I feel that by encouraging voters to sit in judgment of matters they cannot, reasonably, be expected to fathom and, thus, appreciate, we encourage conflict and tedious discussion largely external to photography and art.

The energy wasted and lost here, IMO, could better be invested, if it were understood that an emphasis on topicality existed for the creative benefit of the entrants and not for the righteous glee of the uninitiated."


I love that last sentence! :)
09/05/2007 11:39:32 AM · #18
Originally posted by zeuszen:

The energy wasted and lost here, IMO, could better be invested, if it were understood that an emphasis on topicality existed for the creative benefit of the entrants and not for the righteous glee of the uninitiated."


Not to mention scoring of the image. What a load of Oprahbunk.
09/05/2007 12:15:19 PM · #19
DNMC, as a comment, seems so arrogant to me. Who am I to say whether an image meets the challenge or not?

When I vote, I tend to give the photographer the benefit of the doubt when it comes to interpreting the Challenge Description.

I would much rather see a well executed image that is either shoehorned or stretched to meet the Challenge, than to see a boring, poorly executed snapshot that meets the challenge description to it's absolute literal definition.

I'm here for the great images...not to ensure that contestants follow my interpretation of the challenge description exactly.

If you give a "DNMC" comment or a DNMC score of a "1"...that's your right as voter to do that. But I would question as to what your motives really are.
09/05/2007 12:16:18 PM · #20
Originally posted by zeuszen:

"Too much consideration, IMO, is given to voters and commenters to rate entries by topicality, and this stance is stressed in the rules.


Where exactly in the rules is this stance stressed. My readings of the rules you allude to would seem to suggest just the opposite.

Originally posted by zeuszen:

While I am all for challenges in the general spirit we conduct them, I feel that by encouraging voters to sit in judgment of matters they cannot, reasonably, be expected to fathom and, thus, appreciate, we encourage conflict and tedious discussion largely external to photography and art.


Your comment in this instance pre-supposes that we as a collective have a knowledge of the votes casts by the individual voters, as well as an understanding as to the very reason why the scores were doled out. In essence, we would be effectively be doing exactly that which you find problematic, namely: "sit in judgment of matters we cannot, reasonably, be expected to fathom"

Originally posted by zeuszen:

The energy wasted and lost here, IMO, could better be invested, if it were understood that an emphasis on topicality existed for the creative benefit of the entrants and not for the righteous glee of the uninitiated."


The latter part of this comment is rather gratuitous as it acribes a value that could never be substantiated in any tangible manner. While it remains true that individuals may indeed be uninitiated, it is mere speculation to suggest that the topically caters to their "righteous glee".

Ray
09/05/2007 12:38:31 PM · #21
Voting rules:

You should:

*
recommend an entry be reviewed for disqualification if you feel it violates any rule. To do this, use the “here if you suspect a rules violation”. link on the image’s voting page, and give your reason in the space provided. After submitting your requests, vote assuming the entry did not violate any rules.
*
read The DQ Process - A Voter's Guide.
*
keep an open mind to other interpretations of the challenge topic.
*
consider the challenge topic when voting, and adjust your score accordingly.
*
vote on as many entries as practical in any challenge in which you vote.
*
comment on entries using the comment box under each photograph.
*
offer constructive criticism with any vote of 3 or lower.

09/05/2007 12:45:03 PM · #22
Originally posted by RayEthier:



Originally posted by zeuszen:

The energy wasted and lost here, IMO, could better be invested, if it were understood that an emphasis on topicality existed for the creative benefit of the entrants and not for the righteous glee of the uninitiated."


The latter part of this comment is rather gratuitous as it acribes a value that could never be substantiated in any tangible manner. While it remains true that individuals may indeed be uninitiated, it is mere speculation to suggest that the topically caters to their "righteous glee".

Ray


Nah, that's an observation - it's empirical.
09/05/2007 12:45:15 PM · #23

You should:

keep an open mind to other interpretations of the challenge topic.
*
consider the challenge topic when voting, and adjust your score accordingly.
*

Looks like oil and water...

:-P

Message edited by author 2007-09-05 12:45:25.
09/05/2007 12:53:42 PM · #24
Originally posted by thegrandwazoo:


Looks like oil and water...

:-P


Or a case of the runs.
09/05/2007 12:56:45 PM · #25
Oops. Ran out of popcorn. While I'm waiting for more...

Food for thought. In a recently completed challenge I ran across some comments of interest.

"... This does seem like a real stretch for the challenge, so 7."
"... I can't really see how it relates to the challenge so I'll give it an -8"
"... I don't agree that it does fit the challenge, but maybe the other voters will. It is a great shot and something to be proud of. Well done. For photographic quality alone 8"
"Tough fit for the challenge, but a great <snip> shot. 6 for that."

All from the same image, that IMO was a stretch, only connected by the title.

According to the comments, not meeting the challenge for these 4 voters garnered an average score of 7.25!?

Dang! We need more DNMC voters out there. Let's get those scores UP! :P
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