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Showing posts 26 - 32 of 32, (reverse)
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01/23/2004 09:41:31 PM · #26
Originally posted by bcvieira:


"The Darwin Awards honor those who improve our gene pool... by removing themselves from it. (Of necessity, this honor is bestowed posthumously.)"

//www.darwinawards.com/

My dad always felt this was a sound basis for opposing mandatory motorcycle helmet laws.

Unfortunately modern medicine now allows too many of these to survive (at public expense) to reproduce anyway ...
01/23/2004 09:52:20 PM · #27
Quote from Willem
"By the way, I am always amazed when I see real guns in the challenges. Amazed at how many people apparently own one."
---

One?
01/24/2004 10:11:28 AM · #28
Originally posted by Armadillo:

Quote from Willem
"By the way, I am always amazed when I see real guns in the challenges. Amazed at how many people apparently own one."
---

One?


Armadillo, you realize that Willlem is from Denmark, don't you?

In Europe we are far (yet) form having children in the schoolyard with guns in a daily basis. It feels strange to us the unthinkable normality that people take when looking at the guns issue.
01/24/2004 10:39:49 AM · #29
Originally posted by bcvieira:

Originally posted by Armadillo:

Quote from Willem
"By the way, I am always amazed when I see real guns in the challenges. Amazed at how many people apparently own one."
---

One?


Armadillo, you realize that Willlem is from Denmark, don't you?

In Europe we are far (yet) form having children in the schoolyard with guns in a daily basis. It feels strange to us the unthinkable normality that people take when looking at the guns issue.


From media coverage it may seem like kids in the schoolyard with guns is "normal" in the US. Nothing could be further from the truth. Weapons ARE a problem in some inner city schools, and that is a sad fact.
the other sad fact is that the gun "issue" has become so two-dimensional. Since when is the comission of a crime the only conceivable use of a gun? In order to understand public support of gun ownership, you need only look at US history. The right to bear arms is written in the Constitution for good reason, and skill with a firearm for hunting and self-defense was a survival skill as recently as the first half of the 20th century (still is in some very remote areas). Sporting use of firearms also has a long tradition in the US. Even in relatively developed areas like my state (Wisconsin), hunting is very popular, and very much needed to control the deer population. It's not in the least related to survival anymore, but that is where the tradition started.
In short, when I see someone express incredulity that anyone would want to own a gun, I am amazed at the ignorance implied. Yes, there are problems attributable to widespread availabilty of guns, however we have a very old adage, "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."
A firearm is a useful tool for the use it was intended, just as is a knife. Treated with respoect and used properly, firearms have a place in our society. Misused, they can be deadly criminal instruments. Punish the act of committing a crime with a gun, not gun owners in general.
01/24/2004 11:06:06 AM · #30
I thought elitism was the American way...after all, why else does the person who puts up the most money get to run the country ?
01/24/2004 11:40:32 AM · #31
Originally posted by kirbic:

Originally posted by bcvieira:

In Europe we are far (yet) form having children in the schoolyard with guns in a daily basis. It feels strange to us the unthinkable normality that people take when looking at the guns issue.


From media coverage it may seem like kids in the schoolyard with guns is "normal" in the US. Nothing could be further from the truth. Weapons ARE a problem in some inner city schools, and that is a sad fact.
[...]
In order to understand public support of gun ownership, you need only look at US history.
[...]
It's not in the least related to survival anymore, but that is where the tradition started.
[...]
In short, when I see someone express incredulity that anyone would want to own a gun, I am amazed at the ignorance implied.


I am all for respecting tradition, after all we are the ones who have bullfights... But can we please ease off a bit? "I am amazed at the ignorance implied."? I do not consider myself an ignorant just because I don't think I should let my 4-year old daughter be near a gun. Can you say the same thing about everyone you know? We all know that firearms accidents only happen with a firearm...

Originally posted by kirbic:

Punish the act of committing a crime with a gun, not gun owners in general.


I could not agree more with you. Punishing the ownership of guns is like punishing browsers because you can buy drugs with it or punishing the mail because you can organize an assassination with letters.

All I was saying is that the gun issue is a problem. In the US.

Bravo for being a Agnostic photographer and for reading Isaac Asimov: You can not be a bad person ;)

It's just that here in Europe we live with a different point of view.
01/24/2004 12:32:14 PM · #32
Originally posted by kirbic:

Weapons ARE a problem in some inner city schools, and that is a sad fact.
the other sad fact is that the gun "issue" has become so two-dimensional. Since when is the comission of a crime the only conceivable use of a gun? In order to understand public support of gun ownership, you need only look at US history. The right to bear arms is written in the Constitution for good reason, and skill with a firearm for hunting and self-defense was a survival skill as recently as the first half of the 20th century (still is in some very remote areas). Sporting use of firearms also has a long tradition in the US. Even in relatively developed areas like my state (Wisconsin), hunting is very popular, and very much needed to control the deer population. It's not in the least related to survival anymore, but that is where the tradition started.
In short, when I see someone express incredulity that anyone would want to own a gun, I am amazed at the ignorance implied. Yes, there are problems attributable to widespread availabilty of guns, however we have a very old adage, "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."
A firearm is a useful tool for the use it was intended, just as is a knife. Treated with respoect and used properly, firearms have a place in our society. Misused, they can be deadly criminal instruments. Punish the act of committing a crime with a gun, not gun owners in general.

It's not only inner-city schools ...

I have no problem with the rational, safe, legal uses of guns you describe. However, I suspect a majority of the guns sold in the US -- including "Saturday Night Specials," AK-47s, etc., are in fact sold for the purpose of killing other people, either in the commission or attempted deterrence of crime, and are not intended for hunting or "sporting" use.

What I find incredulous is that so many gun advocates are against the registration and background checks which would at least somewhat limit the diversion of firearms to the criminally-minded. If you are going to buy a gun for legal purposes, what problem do you have registering it? You register your car, boat; they know your address and phone number. If your gun is later used in the commission of a crime, I want to know how that came about, and hold you appropriately responsible.

I'm also pretty sure that there are more people killed accidentally and during domestic disputes than during the commision of other, "third-party" crime, so I have to consider the possibility that widespread gun ownership poses risks which outweigh the benefits.
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