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DPChallenge Forums >> Administrator Announcements >> POV Recalculations
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01/22/2004 11:31:46 AM · #1
As you've probably noticed, the results for this challenge have been recalculated. Cheating will not be tolerated. Modifying EXIF information will result in suspension from the site. Congrats to our new winners :)

Drew
01/22/2004 11:33:56 AM · #2
what's wrong with people?
01/22/2004 12:23:12 PM · #3
Straight out cheating should result in being banned from the site.
01/22/2004 12:24:19 PM · #4
Originally posted by mariomel:

Straight out cheating should result in being banned from the site.


Banned is for a second offence.
01/22/2004 12:26:32 PM · #5
Originally posted by Konador:

Originally posted by mariomel:

Straight out cheating should result in being banned from the site.


Banned is for a second offence.


Fair enough. Does he get a suspension? 2 minutes in the box for obstruction?
01/22/2004 12:28:01 PM · #6
Yeh, and a wee bit longer than 2 minutes :P
01/22/2004 12:33:29 PM · #7
Originally posted by Konador:

Yeh, and a wee bit longer than 2 minutes :P


We should let people know. It could be a deterent to others trying it.
01/22/2004 12:36:21 PM · #8
Originally posted by mariomel:

Originally posted by Konador:

Yeh, and a wee bit longer than 2 minutes :P


We should let people know. It could be a deterent to others trying it.


Almost all the recent challenges have had at least one DQ & there has been much talk about it in the threads. It doesnt seem to be working as a deterent. I just dont get people. Obviously you will be exposed for cheating, especially if you win a ribbon. If people are cheating to win. doesnt seem a bit stupid to do so if at the end you will be exposed for cheating?


01/22/2004 01:05:38 PM · #9
The thing i can't understand is why someone will cheat to win. If I am correct there is no monetary compensation when you receive a ribbon so what's the deal. BE REAL!
01/22/2004 01:08:40 PM · #10
Originally posted by relgraphics:

The thing i can't understand is why someone will cheat to win. If I am correct there is no monetary compensation when you receive a ribbon so what's the deal. BE REAL!


Crazy isn't it? People will go through such lengths to win. What is the CHALLENGE in that?
01/22/2004 01:42:54 PM · #11
I've always wondered whether you could just modify the dates in the EXIF data and get away with it. Nice to know you can't.
01/22/2004 02:35:41 PM · #12
Originally posted by ScottK:

I've always wondered whether you could just modify the dates in the EXIF data and get away with it. Nice to know you can't.
Well, you can if you're willing to expend the effort to do so. The costs outweight the benefits on DPC; it might be otherwise elsewhere. Up until recently, it was just too easy.
01/22/2004 03:09:41 PM · #13
It is terrific that the site administrators and council are vigilant in exposing cheaters. A level playing field should be a given, and if it takes strong enforcement to make it a given, so be it. One thought: with all the DQs at the winner level, could there be more who just didn't make it to the top five?
01/22/2004 03:13:01 PM · #14
Originally posted by sfalice:

It is terrific that the site administrators and council are vigilant in exposing cheaters. A level playing field should be a given, and if it takes strong enforcement to make it a given, so be it. One thought: with all the DQs at the winner level, could there be more who just didn't make it to the top five?


This is definatly an issue, which is why we are considering bringing in random checks for proof in each challenge.
01/22/2004 03:31:50 PM · #15
Why not just do away with dates altogether? Maybe there's a point I'm missing, but if you took the pic and the editing rules have been followed [and it fits a challenge]- how does the date matter? If I took a great photo 6months ago, it's still great now and it's still mine.
I'm wondering why there are date rules to begin with?

Message edited by author 2004-01-22 15:33:06.
01/22/2004 03:34:33 PM · #16
Because without the dates in place, it wouldn't really be a challenge. The point of the whole site is to "challenge" ourselves to create the best image we can fitting the current challenge. We all have those right place right time shots that could be winners, but it's much harder to create that. I'm generally a day late and a dollar short with an image that fits perfectly, so it's really a challenge to me, at any rate.

01/22/2004 03:35:57 PM · #17
Originally posted by GoldBerry:

Why not just do away with dates altogether? Maybe there's a point I'm missing, but if you took the pic and the editing rules have been followed [and it fits a challenge]- how does the date matter? If I took a great photo 6months ago, it's still great now and it's still mine.
I'm wondering why there are date rules to begin with?


I'm sure part of the reason is because it's not really a challenge to just go looking through your stash of photographs and try and find one that matches the theme as opposed to getting out there and thinking and creating something in a short amount of time. Some people have only been into photography for a short time, there are others who likely have a very old and vast amount of resources to pull it from.

There are plenty of photography sites that do not have such date restrictions, but part of what makes DPC fun is the restricted time you have to come up with a photograph.
01/22/2004 03:36:24 PM · #18
Originally posted by GoldBerry:

Why not just do away with dates altogether? Maybe there's a point I'm missing, but if you took the pic and the editing rules have been followed [and it fits a challenge]- how does the date matter? If I took a great photo 6months ago, it's still great now and it's still mine.
I'm wondering why there are date rules to begin with?


It may still be great... but how have you 'challenged' yourself? The whole point of this site is having a given period of time to take a great photo on a particular subject...
01/22/2004 03:58:33 PM · #19
I think the date restriction _is_ the thrust of the challenge. I have thousands of stock photos that I could use for any given challenge but it seems the point is to _deliberately_ compose and consider the making of a photograph to suit a particular set of criteria.

Most photographers do this in the course of doing their business. The one with the money tells you what sort of picture they want and if you do it good enough they pay you.

It is the main reason I like DPC - it provides for a _challenge_. And, hands down, it is the best training tool for professional photographers I have seen on the web.

Catherine
01/22/2004 03:58:54 PM · #20
It might actually be interesting to have special one-time challenge titled "The Best Picture I've Ever Taken." Going through vast amounts of images and selecting your best work would be the "challenge". It would obviously have to exclude anything that you've already entered here. Make it a open challenge. Might help clear the air here and get us back to what we came here to do in the first place.......work on becoming better photographers.

Cheers,

Owen
01/22/2004 04:10:03 PM · #21
Originally posted by sfalice:

It is terrific that the site administrators and council are vigilant in exposing cheaters. A level playing field should be a given, and if it takes strong enforcement to make it a given, so be it. One thought: with all the DQs at the winner level, could there be more who just didn't make it to the top five?


I would like to take the opportunity of aquainting site members of an incident which took place last Saturday as it may resurface at a later date with someone else.
I received notification to forward my original image for the POV challenge. This I did straight away..only to be notified a short time later that the image that I had submitted was not the original as it had EXIF data missing.I wrote to certain members of the site council explaining that this was the original and that I had nothing left to send.In the reply I received, I was asked "If I had adjusted the data,just to be honest" To cut a long story short,I wrote several times..explaining the procedure I use to download my images etc and also (at my insistence)sent other images to be checked.I heard nothing (officially) from the council and didn`t find out until Wednesday morning that my image had been allowed to stand.
I have been making enquiries far and wide to find out the cause of the missing data and the likeliest cause is a camera fault possibly caused by operating in sub zero temperatures. I am currently taking this up with Fuji.
The point of my message is that this has proven that just because EXIF data is missing there can be other reasons outwith CHEATING.
(As a point of interest) all dates were correct and intact on my EXIF data.
I, wholeheartedly agree with the hard approach on anybody using illegal means to gain advantage in what should be a site used to learn and improve techniques, with a ribbon being a bonus,but I have to admit disappointment in the way my situation was handled.The attitude seemed to be that you were seen as guilty until proven innocent and to be perfectly honest, owing to the complete lack of communication, I still feel as if I am being accused of tampering with this image.

Gordon Whyte
01/22/2004 04:15:24 PM · #22
dwoolridge, I have a similar story to relate..I had written admin on DPC in regards to comments that were made regarding one of my shots which I found offensive, and the admin response implied I was trying to get voters to re-vote on my images to gain a better score. I never said/wrote anything along those lines and was offended [even hurt] to be accused in that manner.
But all is well, all is forgiven [not forgotten].

Message edited by author 2004-01-22 16:15:56.
01/22/2004 04:39:05 PM · #23
Originally posted by geewhy:

...I have to admit disappointment in the way my situation was handled.The attitude seemed to be that you were seen as guilty until proven innocent and to be perfectly honest, owing to the complete lack of communication, I still feel as if I am being accused of tampering with this image.

Gordon Whyte

Try to remember that these matters are not being handled by a corporate customer-service center or bureaucracy, but by a few volunteers scattered around the world who try to do this in their "spare" time, and in multiple time zones. To "discuss" any issue among more than a dozen people under these circumstances can easily involve several days of back-and-forth postings. I don't feel we really need to keep you apprised of our progress (or lack thereof) along the way ... you can be sure as soon as there is any decision you will be informed.

Likewise, we try to not discuss our criteria or investigative methods in the public forums, since that would immediately undermine their efficacy. Sorry to sound like Mr. Ashcroft, but the best policy here is to not cheat, and then the secret police won't bother you (that you'll know about) ... if this were over any subject other than a symbolic prize among a voluntary association of supposedly honorable individuals, I'd be marching in protest over what we do ... but under these circumstances I find it appropriate and effective.

Message edited by author 2004-01-22 16:40:15.
01/22/2004 04:46:50 PM · #24
A lot of the recent DQ's have been to first-time submitters: is there any mileage in making it even more obvious on the submission page that your shot must be taken within the dates and that any frauds (however accidental) will be uncovered? It's really very easy to just check the check-boxes without reading the accompanying text.

Not quite sure how this would be done though.

Ed
01/22/2004 04:53:49 PM · #25
Originally posted by e301:

It's really very easy to just check the check-boxes without reading the accompanying text.

You can lead them to the page, but you can't make them read it.

However, they CLAIM to have read it, so I accept them at their word, and that's why I have no problem assuming a violation deliberate until proven accidental.
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