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01/08/2004 04:18:52 PM · #1
A lot of you recognize my little boy the second you see him in the challenges, so I decided to ask all of you for some help. I am looking for someone who has an ADHD child or has at some point been told their child is ADHD.

Kris was diagnosed just before Thanksgiving due to Cooper Evaluations that both the teacher and his Dad and I completed. His teacher has been fantastic keeping us informed of any related issues and at the same time I have been informing the doctor when needed and taking him to seem a counselor who specializes in child development and problem children.

At his last doctor's visit I had expressed a concern the the meds were either to strong or he may not really be ADHD but rather instead inneed of testing his IQ levels and making sure his behavior at school wasn't related to being bored. Of course the doctor said he wasn't on the meds long enough and to give it time.

He has been on Stratterra now for 6 weeks and his behavior has gotten so bad that I got a note from his teacher today that states he is now lacking any type of self control and has been destorying things. She said his behavior now is worse than it was before he went on the medication and we are seeing the same problems here at home.

If anyone has had any sucess with treating ADHD after having a failure with the meds I would really appreciate knowing about it. Also if you know of any online support groups for ADHD parents please give me to a link to it. I'm sure I'm not the first parent to sit and cry cause the prescribed treatment is making things worse.

01/08/2004 04:26:06 PM · #2
I have a 8 year-old daughter and 5 year old son that would be considered ADHDif we didn't home school. I was and still probably am Adult ADD.

I'm at work now and I'll get you some information when I get home tonight. There are some great books and web-sites on the subject. We think its more "right brained child" in left brain society than ADHD. We do not medicate.
01/08/2004 04:27:20 PM · #3
Hi! My husband was diagnosed with ADHD (retrospectively I think - he's now 50) and I suspect my 9 year old has some aspects of it as well. She's not been tested - and probably will not be as we homeschool. My best recommendation is to get your hands on a book by Ronald Davis called "The Gift of Dyslexia" which addresses the difference in perceptions seen in children who are often diagnosed as ADHD or ADD, Dyslexic, etc. I borrowed it several years ago from our library and then had to buy it - it's a fantastic reference and reading it helped me to understand the way they both think. There is a website where you can go for support as well:

//www.dyslexiatalk.com/

I know you did not mention dyslexia, but it often goes hand in hand with adhd and has many of the same symptoms.
01/08/2004 04:28:19 PM · #4
Sent you a PM
01/08/2004 04:32:31 PM · #5
for support groups, look up CHADD, they have a lt of local chapters


//www.chadd.org/

Message edited by author 2004-01-08 16:34:53.
01/08/2004 04:55:53 PM · #6
Maybe your son is taking the wrong meds. If it's been 6 weeks and things are worse I would question the doctor more about the meds or see what a different doctor suggests.

My son is ADD, and was on medication when he was younger. He took himself off the meds because he didn't like the way it made him feel. Things worked out ok but we had to help him organize things.
I also think I probably have adult ADD.

01/08/2004 05:02:25 PM · #7
I dont have a child with these symptons but hes just 3 so not sure! But I have seen symptons in my dad and uncle that are the same. It is my uncles boy and several of my aunts kids who was diagnosed with it and they got put on medicine. I also have seen other friends kids with it on that medicine too makes them a different child sometimes a zombie. One of my cousins was so hyper he used to hit his mom and throw things at her really bad. I have never liked seeing kids on the meds cause like I said it changes their personality and what good can it do for them in the long run. Is it really safe for their heart or the nutrition of their little bodies? Some kids just get bored in school and teachers have to many kids in a classroom (used to substitute too) that kids can show the symptons when they really are decent and over all just need more attention from teachers or parents and family. I dont know what I would do if they told me my youngen had it but I think I would try vitamins and makeing sure diet was well balanced for a while before starting meds, like making sure sweets and caffine arent too much (kids are kids and deserve a little) dont rob em of all pleasure. I ran into someone once who sold vitamins have no idea and what brand it was now wish I did but she took her kids off the ridalin and ADD meds and put them on the vitamins and was very happy with the outcome. The vitamins were like all natural and something very close to what they advertise now like focus factor. Anyways I dont want to say that you shouldnt go with what the doctor says just that I hope this gives you an idea of other points and experiences.
01/08/2004 05:17:35 PM · #8
Originally posted by tolovemoon:

I dont have a child with these symptons but hes just 3 so not sure! But I have seen symptons in my dad and uncle that are the same. It is my uncles boy and several of my aunts kids who was diagnosed with it and they got put on medicine. I also have seen other friends kids with it on that medicine too makes them a different child sometimes a zombie. One of my cousins was so hyper he used to hit his mom and throw things at her really bad. I have never liked seeing kids on the meds cause like I said it changes their personality and what good can it do for them in the long run. Is it really safe for their heart or the nutrition of their little bodies? Some kids just get bored in school and teachers have to many kids in a classroom (used to substitute too) that kids can show the symptons when they really are decent and over all just need more attention from teachers or parents and family. I dont know what I would do if they told me my youngen had it but I think I would try vitamins and makeing sure diet was well balanced for a while before starting meds, like making sure sweets and caffine arent too much (kids are kids and deserve a little) dont rob em of all pleasure. I ran into someone once who sold vitamins have no idea and what brand it was now wish I did but she took her kids off the ridalin and ADD meds and put them on the vitamins and was very happy with the outcome. The vitamins were like all natural and something very close to what they advertise now like focus factor. Anyways I dont want to say that you shouldnt go with what the doctor says just that I hope this gives you an idea of other points and experiences.


I really like what you have said here. Since posting this his teacher returned my phone call and we discussed other possibilities. Including getting him a TSS (Theraputic Staff Support) which basically would give him his own teachers aide so he would have someone focusing all their attention on him which is when he functions very well at school.

I also mentioned to her the fact that I suffered when I was his age from the "Only Child Syndrome" and he seem to do things when he doesn't get that individualized attention that only children are used to at home.

Right now it sounds like the school and I are pretty much in agreement to trying alternatives to meds cause of how bad this was the last few weeks. One of the suggestions I have been given was to buy him a gameboy to help him build his own attention span. After I thought about it, it made perfect sense to me. And that suggestion came from his therapist who deals with problem children.
01/08/2004 05:36:08 PM · #9
ADHD needs structure. Painfully strict structure. I personally would take him off the meds, limit his processed sugar intake, processed white flour product intake and find out what he loves more than anything ie: Hobby.
My sister has a son with this and anger management problems as well. I am an adult with all the signs and symptoms of ADD but with the stubborness to refuse meds.
There are always ways to work around your own personality traits. There are many good books out there on the benefits of ADD, the creativity that comes with it, the intelligence that is often mistaken for other problems, one book is called "The Edison Gene".

I have done much research (grad student) into this and one aspect of ADHD and kids is that they are at a higher risk for criminal offending if not directed in the right areas.
One of the great books that is good for any parent is "Small Criminals Among US"
I am not implying that your child is like this, only that if YOU are as educated on the subject as you can be, then you can be the one to help your child and not the meds.

I have a friend who has chosen the meds route for herself and her son, for her it works, I personally think we are highly overmedicated as a society and that what is often just boredom is seen as a medical condition that requires pills.

One child in a fifth grade class I taught was a problem, he was so smart he'd get in his own way, he was clearly ADD, but he was also suffering from moving, his brother was moving out of the house, his father worked a lot and he didnt' have any social skills with kids his own age. He didn't need medicine he needed stability and friendship. This example is not you, I understand, just a different point of view.
01/08/2004 05:38:44 PM · #10
I find it intersting that doctors tend to think children seem to have some sort of drug dificiency in there body and it needs to be replentished daily.

in a society like todays where life is fast, complicated, bombarted with unatural chemicals and toxins of all types in the food we eat, air we breath, etc and most children are raised with TV, video games and high levels of sugar and processed carbs, its not suprizing we have a hard time paying attention and focusing.

that being said, i have studied the subject of heath for many years, this includes what doctors call ADHD.
i dont know what kind of diet you or your child live by but you should read into the affects of sugar on children. this is not only confined to sweets, but milk and processed/refined flours (not to mention all the artificial colors, flavors and preservative chemicals).

good ADD book
that book would be a good place to start.

if you want more info on the subject of how/why we started doing idiotic things like creating refined sugar/flour: sugar blues

my main point is "you are what you eat". you should start there and remember "doctors dont cure desease, they treat symptoms".
01/08/2004 07:16:52 PM · #11
just be careful you are not the result of a misdiagnosis so someone can make money off of it.

A lot of that has been happening lately.

Also many people will be diagnosed with ADD who are NOT ADD just because some multiple choice test says hey are. Im sure I am ADD because the test would say so, but I do NOT like taking medicines unless it is absolutely necessary (life or death basically)

James
01/08/2004 07:24:47 PM · #12
Our son Chris (age 11) is ADHD, and he is on meds. The meds have helped him VERY significantly, something that controlling diet did not do. I realized long ago that ADD (NOT the hyperactive variety) was something that had a strong impact on me as a child, and somewhat less so as an adult; I have never taken meds for it, too stubborn. My wife (a registered nurse) sees these traits in me as well.
I do feel that as a rule we are overmedicated, and I don't like the fact that Chris needs the meds right now. At some point he will have to learn to cope without the meds, I really don't think that it is reasonable for him to be on them the rest of his life.
If a particular course of medication is not working, see his physician and insist on a change. I would be that last one to minimize the importance of diet, but I doubt this is your whole solution. Good luck, we'll keep you in our thoughts.
01/08/2004 07:36:14 PM · #13
I volunteered at the YMCA last year and we had a great kid, 14, who was ADHD but was completely out of control. His parents were well into their 60's and would drop him off as soon as we opened and pick him up when we closed, not realizing that we don't offer any special care for children who don't have babysitters...turns out they just couldnt' handle him and well, unfortunately, neither could we and after several exhaustive and unproductive talks with his parents, we had to ask them not to bring him anymore, and we enforced it. He was destructive and VERY high maintenance although I know he meant well. It hurt us all to have to tell him he couldn't come anymore. It was pretty sad......I wonder how he's doing and if his parents ever sought proper care for him......
01/08/2004 07:50:02 PM · #14
I don't have any personal experience of the condition but I have heard that there are vitamin supplements that help. The supplement mentioned was called ADDvantage. You can find out more here.

Hope this helps.
01/08/2004 08:06:55 PM · #15
Originally posted by Gina Rothfels:

I don't have any personal experience of the condition but I have heard that there are vitamin supplements that help. The supplement mentioned was called ADDvantage. You can find out more here.

Hope this helps.


I have got to say that site had a lot of good info and it wasn't clutter with too much.

Message edited by author 2004-01-08 20:17:32.
01/08/2004 08:26:44 PM · #16
i HIGHLY recomend these as part of your treatment. hell.. i recomend these for EVERYONE :)

calcium
chromium
majorminerals

01/08/2004 08:52:51 PM · #17
As a teacher of remedial students, many whom are ADD or ADHD, I would like to make a couple of comments.

1. One very common side effect of a child who does not need medicine is that the behavior gets worse.

2. NO child should EVER be put on medicine without an IQ test, hearing check, and vision check. All of these factors can contribute to behavior problems that might make someone say a child is ADD or ADHD. These are considered standards of practice in most states.

3. I am not against medications if they HELP and not hinder the child's social and intellectual development. I have seen medicines make a world of difference for children. But, I strongly advise finding another doctor who would listen to you and your concerns and make sure all the appropriate testing is done.
01/08/2004 08:57:24 PM · #18
I have 2 adhd foster kids,and one add I resisted meds for a long time, finally i decided to try it, when they were getting very far behind in school, one was in grade 5 and one gr. 3 niether could read within 1.5 yrs of meds both are reading and writing and succeeding at school. The post that said structure is needed and I would TOTALLY agree. Very clear limits and boundaries and routine, routine, routine, and then more routine!! Ritalin BTW is the med that they were on, I would say try it for a few weeks and if you notice a difference great and if not, not much lost. Start on a low dose and go up if needed. My kids can still still now, they do not constantly make noises when on the meds, and they can concentrate on school.
Good luck.
p.s have a sense of humor there is a good kids book too called 'shelly the hyperactive turtle' good to explain things to son.
01/08/2004 09:27:07 PM · #19
I have a Grandson with this problem One year he was overdosed at the suggestion of teachers Was a zombie Then His Dad took him off any medicine. That was a terrible year for Brandon then his medicine was changed and he did not take so much. That has worked real Good for him.
He is a little older now 16 today. At least for him the right medicine
and the right amount has been the best solution.
Good luck to you and your son. he is cute
Sue
01/08/2004 10:33:57 PM · #20
A book I read in college that was pretty good was called "Beyond Ritalin." I have a copy somewhere, but couldn't find it for the ISBN number.

Some people are really against medicine, but I think each child is different and different approaches work for each child.

I'm a certified teacher but right now I'm working as a one-on-one aide with a child with a PPD. An aide will at least give your child more attention and structure (prompts and such to help keep behavior under control). If your school can/will afford one I'd say go for it. It can't hurt.

Don't take this the wrong way: Don't let your child use his label as an excuse for his actions. You may need to modify things, but don't set the standards to low. I see this way to often. Children start to act like they think their "label" should make them act, and use it as an excuse.

Also, try to find out when your child is having the most problems in class and see if there is a pattern. I would guess that it is probably transitioning from one subject to another, or one activity or another. If you can find a pattern you may be able to find some ways to make the triggers less effective for his behavior.
01/08/2004 10:43:35 PM · #21
yes ive heard that book was good, buy it for $0.94 here
01/08/2004 11:31:03 PM · #22
I think of mental problems like ADHD, ODD, autism, depression, etc. as symptoms of some underlying problem or deficiency. They are what we see, not the true cause. Unfortunately, modern medical technology doesn't often have the ability to determine, much less correct, the real problem; all we can do is work with the symptoms, which we do with varying degrees of success. But similar symptoms can be caused by very different underlying problems. This, I think, is one reason treatments that work great for one person are ineffective for another.

The hardest part for me is remembering that impatience doesn't help. Children need to be responsible for their actions, but adults that work with them need to be tolerant of their disabilities.

Disclaimer: I am not a medical or child behavior professional!
01/08/2004 11:55:08 PM · #23
As a special ed teacher, I have seen many ADD/ADHD children. Some needed the medication to function. Others used it.

Quick story -- At one school I was at, there were several students who had to take ritalin right before lunch. One boy thought this was "cool" and tried to convince his mother that he needed it to. None of the teachers, staff, or either parent thought this kid exhibited any ADD/ADHD behavior. So, she called the doctor, explained the situation, and he agreed to see him. He "prescribed" ritalin, or at least that is what the kid thought it was. It was actually children's multivitamin that looked like ritalin. He took it religiously and was wonderful.
Not sure how they broke the news to him.

Back to point. One thing to remember is that there is a difference between ADD and ADHD. A child that is considered ADD can't pay attention to anything. Simply nothing will hold his attention. A child with ADHD tries to pay attention to too much. He will try to focus on the teacher, the guy mowing the yard, the janitor in the hall, and his classmate picking his nose -- all at the same time. I point that out because of the gameboy suggestion. If he is ADD, it might help in the long run (but don't let him try to use the label to get other "goodies" :-P). If it is ADHD, he will focus when the game is interesting, but after a while, the situation won't be helped. Also, if you go the gameboy route, I would recommend word/educational games, or at least structure what he plays and when.

Someone mentioned structure -- they were right on. My last 5 years in public school (as a teacher) were spent in an alternative school. Out of 90 or so kids, at least 70 of them were considered to have ADD or ADHD. The classes they did the best in were the classes that had definite expectations, structured lessons, and consistent consequences. I know "freedom" in the classroom for students is a popular idea, but many students have to be taught how to deal with that.

Also remember, he can still exhibit ADD/ADHD or even a learning disability with a high IQ.
01/09/2004 02:58:39 AM · #24
This always makes me wonder...what did your parents do for your "undiagnosed" ADD (diagnosed when in adulthood), when you were a child? What did people do 20-100 years ago for this type of problem? I know many people who work in the medical field (I am an ER RN) that "recently" have been told they were probably ADD/ADHD children. How did they get through? How are they MD's, RN's, Rad tech's, etc.? My opinion--rules, discipline, routine and structure. And parents that backed it up.
I still believe that most children are medicated for this when they shouldn't be. Alot of the time (especially with my own experiences in the ER), alot of children just have no firm discipline or rules. The parent just let them go off and do whatever they want, when they want, and how they want. Very frustrating when you are trying to assess and treat them, etc.
01/09/2004 03:23:36 AM · #25
I've had a look on the Scottish Health On the Web web site (SHOW), hopefully you will be able to see this too (Might be firewalled for NHS Users only???) Search Results @ SHOW On ADHD

I did a search on ADHD and found quite a few references. The main pieces of information come from something called the SIGN guidelines. They were produced for GP's etc across Scotland so that they could all look to the same place for guidelines on how to help patients.

Section 52 of the SIGN guidelines is the section on ADHD.

The main page that I think will answer some of your questions about how your son should have been assessed is here.

Section 52.6 has more information for parents, click here.

If you go to the SIGN web page and use their search engine with the term ADHD is basically comes up with the same info as the search on the SHOW web site. However, it's all in one place and you can download a lot of it in PDF format.

One thing to remember though is that this is the guidelines here for Scotland, not sure if they would be the same where you are.

If you want any of the leaflets etc from the support groups, let me know and I can try to arrange something with you.

Addition : If you can't get into the SHOW web site, the same things should be available on the SIGN one.

Message edited by author 2004-01-09 03:54:12.
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