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06/05/2007 10:39:07 AM · #26 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Save up for GOOD equipment. Nothing less than what Prof Fate advises for a camera body, nothing more than a f/2.8 lens. You can get by with slower lens sets, but then you are limited to a well lit venue.
You need good equipment for sports. Minimum of 8 fps, AI servo, fast read/write to memory, blah, blah, blah...the reason is simple. If you see something happen, it's too late.
KNOW the sport your want to shoot, and get used to having your camera stuck to your face.
You've got the tips, now get out there, save your money, and show us what you've got. |
For someone just getting started, a 1D series body is way overkill. So is 8fps. I know a ton of photogs that get cover shots with a rebel and a 70-200. For sequences, the 5fps provided by the 30D/D200 is plenty.
I guess it depends on the sport. My knowledge comes from the outdoor action sports world (snow, skate, surf, dirt, etc) where a solid knowledge of remote flash is way more important than how many fps your camera can shoot.
Another tip, is if you have buddies (lets go with bikers, cause thats what you originally shot) that want to do a shoot, find something original to hit. No one wants to publish yesterdays news. Hunt down something different, or shoot something a new way, and youll make alot of progress in the industry very quickly.
Its not about the body. Learn to anticipate the action of whatever sport you shoot, and make your next equipment purchase a 70-200. After that, maybe add a flash and some pocketwizards. Worry about the body once you establish yourself in the industry; if you arent making money doing it, you do not need a $5000 camera...
I dont know what happened to that wheels and wax site, its perfect for this discussion. The pros of action sport hang out there... |
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06/05/2007 10:40:43 AM · #27 |
Here is something of interest for the Auto Focus, and the AI Servo novice.
According to the major material in Canon's "Lens Work III," the description in their US patent application, and remarks by Chuck Westfall, to put it briefly:
AF Modes:
One Shot: When you set the camera to "One Shot," you set the condition "The subject is definitely not moving." The camera is in a "focus priority" mode. The shutter release is locked until the camera achieves what it thinks is the proper focus. This is best if your subject and the camera will be motionless, because it allows you to focus and change the framing without the camera refocusing automatically.
AI Servo: When you put the camera into AI Servo mode, you have set the condition "The subject is definitely moving." The camera is in a "shutter priority" mode. Therefore, the camera goes into a routine that continually collects data to predict the subject movement and move the lens to intercept the subject at its new position. You can shoot even if out of focus (however, the camera cannot release the shutter if the lens is actually in motion). If you know your subject will be in constant motion, this is the best mode. If the subject is actually not moving, the chance of a misfocused shot increases as the camera goes through its data-collection routine. However, often a handheld camera does move (as the photographer sways naturally) for AI Focus to detect and correct for the sway. AI Servo will use whichever focus point you have activated. However, if you activate all the focus points, you must put the center point on the subject and half-press the shutter release for about half a second for the camera to "acquire" the right subject. After that, while you hold the shutter release, the camera can intelligently "hand off" the subject focus from point to point as the subject "wanders" over the viewscreen.
AI Focus: The camera is normally in One Shot mode and the shutter will lock until it achieves focus. However, if it detects the subject moving (that is, the subject goes out of focus), it will automatically switch into AI Servo mode and try to maintain focus. If you are focusing on something that frequently stays still but could move suddenly (like a toddler) this mode comes in handy. The important point wiht AI Focus is that it does not lock the shutter. However, the camera will usually interpret "focus and recompose" as movement of the subject, and will refocus.
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06/05/2007 10:44:13 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by option:
I guess it depends on the sport. My knowledge comes from the outdoor action sports world (snow, skate, surf, dirt, etc) where a solid knowledge of remote flash is way more important than how many fps your camera can shoot.
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OF course is depends on the sport. With that in mind, not all venues allow flash.
So again, read the guide lines.
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06/05/2007 11:16:15 AM · #29 |
I don't know why I'm replying here -- I'm just agreeing with what others have said.
I've shot various sports for a couple years now with my Canon 20d and the 70-200 lens. I'm amazed with that lens every time I use it.
The other thing to note is that each new sport (football, baseball, soccer, volleyball, boat racing, dog agility, rock climbing, etc. etc.) is a whole new game. It takes time to get to know where to be and when. For team sports, a great way to practice is at high school games -- you have the freedom to move around -- nobody's restricting where you can plant yourself (be reasonable about that, of course). You'll find that each game has a learning curve -- the worst of which you'll be over after 2 or 3 games if you'll experiment. Don't worry about getting good shots during the first couple of games -- focus more on experimenting with different angles and settings. You'll find what works when you go over the shots, and you'll likely find that there are 2 or 3 positions that will net you 90% of your good shots -- figure out those positions for each sport. I tend to use those spots early in the game to get my must-have shots. Once those shots are in the bag, I'm free to hang there for more, or to experiment and go for the more unusual.
For outdoor sports, definitely get a 70-200 f2.8 lens. Canon's is phenomenal. For most stuff I've done, the IS is not necessary -- you're shooting with a fast enough shutter that the IS isn't going to do anything for you really.
Brian |
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06/05/2007 02:08:16 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by ourwebstop:
For most stuff I've done, the IS is not necessary -- you're shooting with a fast enough shutter that the IS isn't going to do anything for you really. |
I use IS even at high shutter speeds. The reason is that, on the long end of the lens, my own body movements can bounce the direction I'm aiming the lens all over the place. So IS helps me steady my own hand and keep the ball and action in frame. |
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06/05/2007 02:40:12 PM · #31 |
For the bicycle shots, just like motorcycle shots: extreme slow shutterspeeds (1/60-1/100) and panning. That also takes care of fore- and background blur. Using very wide aperture and freezing the action doesn't look good. I want to see wheels moving, the cyclist's legs moving etc.
It does work with those tour de france finish shots where you freeze the winner and let the wide aperture do the blur to really freeze the emotion of the win.
And I agree that you do not need a hypertech multifps tool to do it with.
For motorcycle racing I even prefer single shot mode.
Continous AF, not necessarily a fast aperture lens but you do need a lens that can focus fast and of course the quality of a 2.8 L does show.
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06/05/2007 02:56:54 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Azrifel:
And I agree that you do not need a hypertech multifps tool to do it with.
For motorcycle racing I even prefer single shot mode.
Continous AF, not necessarily a fast aperture lens but you do need a lens that can focus fast and of course the quality of a 2.8 L does show. |
Again, depends on the sport of choice.
8 fps vs 5fps may not seem like much, especially with sports on wheels, but, it is a huge differance with sports thst use balls, pucks, or birds.
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06/05/2007 03:14:00 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by Man_Called_Horse:
Originally posted by Azrifel:
And I agree that you do not need a hypertech multifps tool to do it with.
For motorcycle racing I even prefer single shot mode.
Continous AF, not necessarily a fast aperture lens but you do need a lens that can focus fast and of course the quality of a 2.8 L does show. |
Again, depends on the sport of choice.
8 fps vs 5fps may not seem like much, especially with sports on wheels, but, it is a huge differance with sports thst use balls, pucks, or birds. |
Believe it or not, I actually found 8fps too slow for golf!
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06/05/2007 03:25:07 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by dwterry:
Originally posted by ourwebstop:
For most stuff I've done, the IS is not necessary -- you're shooting with a fast enough shutter that the IS isn't going to do anything for you really. |
I use IS even at high shutter speeds. The reason is that, on the long end of the lens, my own body movements can bounce the direction I'm aiming the lens all over the place. So IS helps me steady my own hand and keep the ball and action in frame. |
Still should not matter - besides, read the lens manual - canon recommends you let the IS have 1/2 to 1 second to stabilize before you take the exposure - yeah, right! 1/400 is more than enoough speed at 200mm to offset most any movement you can do - unless your panning maybe. Canon does say IS helps if your shooting from a moving platform (like a boat) so perhaps there is something to this afterall.
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06/05/2007 04:51:04 PM · #35 |
Originally posted by Mr_Pants:
Believe it or not, I actually found 8fps too slow for golf! |
Oh, I belive it.
A small ass white ball, going mach speed from the drive....
Try a baseball going 90 mph from 60 feet, making contact with a wooden stick being swung at the ball at 50 mph.
Sounds like a M3 is in your future.
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06/05/2007 05:35:08 PM · #36 |
| oh god. i hope you guys know im only 16 and work a part time job while in high school. im not rich! not saying im going to get everything this second |
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06/05/2007 05:58:47 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Still should not matter |
But it does. For me at least. Just to clarify:
I am _not_ using IS to freeze the frame. I acknowledge that my high shutter speed is doing that for me. Rather, I am attempting to steady my own hand and keep the action "within the frame".
Perhaps you have a steadier hand than I. When I'm looking thru a 400mm lens, it's tough to hold it steady. And when the players are bouncing all around and I'm trying to follow them, there's just that much additional movement going on.
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
besides, read the lens manual - canon recommends you let the IS have 1/2 to 1 second to stabilize before you take the exposure |
There is no problem there. I have my finger on the shutter button almost the entire time ... locked on the action, "waiting for the moment" to fire.
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06/05/2007 08:02:40 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by session416:
oh god. i hope you guys know im only 16 and work a part time job while in high school. im not rich! not saying im going to get everything this second |
haha, damn man, you shouldnt have bought a dslr! didnt you know it would make you broke for the rest of your life?
at any rate, the 70-200 4 L USM is only 560 new at B&H, so I'm sure you could land one second hand for 400ish from ebay or craigslist off some dude dropping 1500 to upgrade to a 2.8... that on a 400D is all youll need for action unless you start getting paid for it, trust me. |
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06/05/2007 10:30:55 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by option:
Originally posted by session416:
oh god. i hope you guys know im only 16 and work a part time job while in high school. im not rich! not saying im going to get everything this second |
haha, damn man, you shouldnt have bought a dslr! didnt you know it would make you broke for the rest of your life?
at any rate, the 70-200 4 L USM is only 560 new at B&H, so I'm sure you could land one second hand for 400ish from ebay or craigslist off some dude dropping 1500 to upgrade to a 2.8... that on a 400D is all youll need for action unless you start getting paid for it, trust me. |
i can afford a $600 lens so that will be okay. i want the 70-200 f/4L USM lens and a EX 580 speed light so i can use my ex 430 as a slave for those low light forested shots
because (im guessing) unlike most people here, i not only shoot extreme sports, i do them! compeditive MTB, snowboarding, wake boarding that kind of thing. so im always around them and i know what will make the best angles and perspectives. NO ASS SHOTS unless you can clearly see the face
so considering my age (16) and the amount of time ive been at this (2 months seriously) would everyone say im doing okay? because i take what everyone says here seriously, best photography/photographers ive ever seen all packed into one website community!
Message edited by author 2007-06-05 22:34:00. |
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06/05/2007 10:48:42 PM · #40 |
yer do'in fine kid.
Get the shot, crop tight, show the work.
Good luck.
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06/05/2007 11:07:53 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by session416:
i can afford a $600 lens so that will be okay. i want the 70-200 f/4L USM lens and a EX 580 speed light so i can use my ex 430 as a slave for those low light forested shots
because (im guessing) unlike most people here, i not only shoot extreme sports, i do them! compeditive MTB, snowboarding, wake boarding that kind of thing. so im always around them and i know what will make the best angles and perspectives. NO ASS SHOTS unless you can clearly see the face
so considering my age (16) and the amount of time ive been at this (2 months seriously) would everyone say im doing okay? because i take what everyone says here seriously, best photography/photographers ive ever seen all packed into one website community! |
For flash work, pick up a set of pocketwizard knockoffs for 30 bucks. Strobist thought pretty highly of them... I gotta pick a set up myself. Way better than having a flash stuck to your hotshoe for action work...
For your age, youre way ahead of the game. I didn't get into this seriously a couple months ago myself, and I'm 23. You're years, even decades ahead of where most people are when they move to a dslr. Commit yourself to learning and keep at it, and you'll find yourself way ahead of the competition in a few years... |
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