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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Games: too much b+w ?
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05/22/2002 02:45:39 PM · #1
Am I the only one that thinks the black and white was overused in Games?

Dont get me wrong I think b+w photos can provide a great effect to shots. I plan on submitting some b+w shots of my own in the future.

My point is that games are so colorful and its a shame to loose all those bright vibrant colors to make an impact photo. Anytime I think about a game I think about colors, color of uniforms, game pieces, game boards, etc...

There are some great games here that would be excellent subjects for color photos.

Just an observation not a rant.

Ed
05/22/2002 02:51:55 PM · #2
I think there is a reason behind that... But I agree that a colorful game is better displayed in color.

A lot of cameras that are used here do not have white balancing functions. These indoor lighting shots can have a nasty yellow tint when no flash is used or when there is not enough natural lighting to adequately light the subject.

Converting to black and white removed color temperature issues... however, I have seen this done incorrectly also. A lot of conversions need some further modification to re-introduce contrast that may be lost during the conversion to b&w.

05/22/2002 02:55:04 PM · #3
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Converting to black and white removed color temperature issues... however, I have seen this done incorrectly also. A lot of conversions need some further modification to re-introduce contrast that may be lost during the conversion to b&w.



Could you elaborate on that a bit? I've not worked in b/w in the past, and was concerned about that issue. What do I need to do to re-introduce contrast? Just increase the contrast setting?
05/22/2002 03:07:01 PM · #4
Well, if you KNOW you are going to have a light temperature problem, you should shoot the photo with several different levels of light. I would try to provide the correct amount of light, regardless of the temperature issues if you KNOW that the photo is going to be converted to black and white afterwards. If you do this, you will not have much conversion to do after the fact.

If you need to make conversions after the fact, you generally need to add a small amount of brightness control and then some contrast as well. I am no expert on photo post processing with software and I hope that someone will jump in here and either back up what I have said here or offer the correct solution....

05/22/2002 03:17:37 PM · #5
its also wise to actually tweak the colors before converting to black and white. you might find something you like. and if you dont, you might add some life to your shades of gray. try 'selective color' in photoshop. i use it to level out skin tones and to darken shadows when neccesary.

and yes, far far far too many of those shots were in b/w. my "rated 2" table on vote.asp has 12 black and whites in it. nothing else.
05/22/2002 03:18:57 PM · #6
Originally posted by jonathans:
and yes, far far far too many of those shots were in b/w. my "rated 2" table on vote.asp has 12 black and whites in it. nothing else.

so what you're saying is that you voted all b/w photos "2" just because they were b/w?
05/22/2002 03:27:11 PM · #7
Originally posted by jonathans:
its also wise to actually tweak the colors before converting to black and white. you might find something you like. and if you dont, you might add some life to your shades of gray. try 'selective color' in photoshop. i use it to level out skin tones and to darken shadows when neccesary.

and yes, far far far too many of those shots were in b/w. my "rated 2" table on vote.asp has 12 black and whites in it. nothing else.


There were 13 black and whites last week, including yours, but I think I spared you a low vote because yours was black and white...



05/22/2002 03:58:21 PM · #8
I happen to love well done B&W's. There are some photo's that are just meant to be B&W. Several of this weeks photo's are examples of this, because they are VERY well done. My top pick for this week: A black and white with some very muted sepia tones.....A beautiful shot.
05/22/2002 04:21:46 PM · #9
Originally posted by Dangerous_blues:
I happen to love well done B&W's. There are some photo's that are just meant to be B&W. Several of this weeks photo's are examples of this, because they are VERY well done. My top pick for this week: A black and white with some very muted sepia tones.....A beautiful shot.

I agree Dangerous. Five of my eight top picks are B&W this week. Good B&W photography is an art all to it's self.
05/22/2002 04:52:12 PM · #10
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
There were 13 black and whites last week, including yours, but I think I spared you a low vote because yours was black and white...

i''m sure you feel chess and scrabble are better represented in black and white than death would be. moreover, i used shades of gray instead of pure black and white. i dont follow the "rules" of photography simply because they exist for other people.

//www.photo.net/books/suess

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Originally posted by kee:
Good B&W photography is an art all to it''s self.

hey great ! maybe we should seperate it more often, then, and use it where its artistically applicable.


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Originally posted by langdon:
so what you''re saying is that you voted all b/w photos "2" just because they were b/w?

no. three or four of them that were really good pictures to begin with got at least 6''s.

* This message has been edited by the author on 5/22/2002 4:59:26 PM.
05/22/2002 04:56:31 PM · #11
Done correctly, just about anything can be displayed nicely in black and white...
05/22/2002 05:25:23 PM · #12
I think actually that in some cases color is overused. If color isn't really adding anything to a photo, I usually like it better without. I've written comments on photos saying that they have so little natural color in them, that they might just be better off in black and white. Sometimes, color confuses the image and can take away from the main subject. I think it needs to be used carefully. Actually, I think color is a lot harder to use correctly than black and white, and honestly, I haven't really progressed to the level that I can consistently use it effectively. So, until I get better at it, I think I might be doing a lot of black and white.
05/22/2002 05:28:31 PM · #13
I love b/w's also. Sure SOME games should be color. But as mentioned above, most photos if done right can be done in b/w and look good. Then there are some (no names mentioned here) that don't look good in color OR b/w.

Well, I'm off...my sweet friend has cooked me dinner:)
05/22/2002 06:08:15 PM · #14
I agree for the most part.
My question is: Do most people
think in terms of B$W = artsy?
I see color, I like color.
What's not artsy about color?
05/22/2002 06:11:24 PM · #15
My photo was done in color but I had a question about whether or not it was in black and white. I hope that I didn't rate a 2 in this case.

Hey Shi, what did your friend fix? I just had a hot dog cause I have a headache. Why am I on line? I'm such a dp addicted person.
05/22/2002 06:24:44 PM · #16
I noticed that B&W photos were well represented, but to each his own. If a shot is colorful, I hate to make it B&W. If a shot doesn't have a lot of color, it may look better in B&W. I know there are other reasons for doing B&W, but I haven't learned what they are yet!
05/22/2002 06:29:04 PM · #17
I count three (possibly four) in this week's challenge that make poor use of B/W. I think you may be making a personal dislike for the technique a rather heavily weighted scoring criterion, but that's your perogative.
As for arty-fartiness, Shizz, B/W is just a different way of looking at the world, and good B/W needs plenty of thought before the shutter is releases as well as afterwards. It is very effective on textures and patterns, and, IMO, can increase the impression of sharpness in an image. Not every image will work in B/W, as some rely on color for impact or emotional response. Dismissing something as "arty-farty" seems kind of pig ignorant. Should people who appreciate B/W go and slap 2s on all the garish colored images?
If all you want to do is hold a photocopier up to the world, that's just great. But I find it a lot more rewarding to show a personal interpretation of what I see, and sometimes that means B/W.
It's this kind of pre-Photography 101 thread that makes me wonder if this site is worth my time. Hasn't anyone read a book or at lest a website on basic photography technique? Why rely on shared ignorance (the blind leading the blind) for your education?
05/22/2002 06:36:23 PM · #18
irae....hehehhe

Are you sure you aren''t missing a "t" in your nickname (irate)..just kidding :-)

My big surprise this week is the number of set-up shots. I mean...I bet 90% of the shots are done with a person arranging elements in a shot. I think I see more game "ads" than actual games going on...:-)

I guess most photography is sorta set-up in a way..just felt like I was seeing a lot of purposeful diagonals and carefully placed game pieces.

* This message has been edited by the author on 5/22/2002 6:36:36 PM.
05/22/2002 08:46:59 PM · #19
Originally posted by hokie:
My big surprise this week is the number of set-up shots. I mean...I bet 90% of the shots are done with a person arranging elements in a shot. I think I see more game "ads" than actual games going on...:-)

I guess most photography is sorta set-up in a way..just felt like I was seeing a lot of purposeful diagonals and carefully placed game pieces


Yeah, I felt that way too. In general, I rated photos featuring people higher than the game pieces photos. For one thing, the challenge is about the games PEOPLE play... somehow I felt like photos that showed people playing, or at least interacting with the games were more appropriate than the set-up shots. I also just responded to them better.

There were a few set-up ones I liked, but mostly the ones that showed things moving or did something creative with the pieces in an abstract way, like the boules one and the jacks.



* This message has been edited by the author on 5/22/2002 8:47:33 PM.
05/22/2002 09:08:30 PM · #20
I am not sure if I responded differently to a photo whether it was a set-up shot of not.

Color, Black and White, set-up, natural grab..I saw a good example in each of these categories.

I guess I sorta expected to see a lot of board games as they have lots of pieces and shapes to fiddle with.

I am COMPLETELY surprised that I saw NOT ONE electonic game being played!! NOT ONE!!

I mean..this is a digital camera web site. The very epitome of geekdom and not one electronic game?

C'mon langdon..I know you play counterstrike..Not one tie in with that? :-)

No horseshoes or lawn darts. No Basketball? Cmon!!!! I was dying to see a basketball slam dunk..a nice Hoosier kid playing in a cornfield against an Indiana sky or a New York kid on a black top with skyscrapers around.

No pin the tail on the donkey..I had a real cool idea of a blind folded kid being led to a field with a real Donkey. No running with the Bulls or the squirrels :-)

We need a games part 2!!!! in the fall

05/22/2002 09:32:23 PM · #21
"For one thing, the challenge is about the games PEOPLE play... somehow I felt like photos that showed people playing, or at least interacting with the games were more appropriate than the set-up shots."

Lisae, the challenge doesn't actually say a thing about people. (Unless it changed when voting started from what was originally posted). "GAMES: 'Sports games, card games, board games -- it's your choice. Be creative, and make your game obvious and appealing!'"

While it's certainly your perogative to vote higher for the people playing shots because you "just responded to them better," I don't think, based on the challenge, it's fair for you to say that the people shots were any more or less appropriate than the set-up shots.

But maybe I'm just bitter 'cause I have one of those set up shots... *grin*
05/22/2002 09:55:29 PM · #22
Originally posted by Patella:

Lisae, the challenge doesn't actually say a thing about people. (Unless it changed when voting started from what was originally posted). "GAMES: 'Sports games, card games, board games -- it's your choice. Be creative, and make your game obvious and appealing!'"

While it's certainly your perogative to vote higher for the people playing shots because you "just responded to them better," I don't think, based on the challenge, it's fair for you to say that the people shots were any more or less appropriate than the set-up shots.

But maybe I'm just bitter 'cause I have one of those set up shots... *grin*


Hmm, maybe it was just my wonky memory... But I've never really been a stickler for how well people conform to the challenge technically speaking... just to me the significance of a game is that people play it, photos that don't include that context are just arrangements of objects. They might be pretty or unusual, but they don't embody 'games' to me.
05/22/2002 10:23:11 PM · #23
Hokie: Ever take Latin?
05/22/2002 11:12:52 PM · #24
Lisae,

Well, regardless, it could have been worse. *grin* I was originally thinking more along the lines of mind games, the dating game, or even creating another visual puzzle/game like I tried to do last week. But since thinking that far outside the box usually leads to a week's worth of "I don't get it" comments, and since I didn't feel like another bunch so soon after the last batch, I decided to try something a little more mundane.
05/23/2002 05:49:51 AM · #25
Originally posted by eddy:
[i]Am I the only one that thinks the black and white was overused in Games?

In my opinion to your question, NO. Sometimes a good black and white photograph takes more effort than color. Remember, the first photographs were all in black and white. Learn to respect the elders.... :0) -NBT
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