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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Heads up Setzler- you've got an admirer!
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12/21/2003 09:45:33 AM · #1
Did anyone catch the macro/abstract contest winner at //www.digitalphotocontest.com today (12/21)? Looks almost exactly like John's work. Well, I guess it is the best form of flattery?
12/21/2003 09:48:30 AM · #2
Wow,' . substr('//www.digitalphotocontest.com/getphoto.aspx?pid=571649', strrpos('//www.digitalphotocontest.com/getphoto.aspx?pid=571649', '/') + 1) . ' looks exactly as John's photo !

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/44/9154.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/44/9154.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Message edited by author 2003-12-21 09:49:57.
12/21/2003 09:50:05 AM · #3
Put them side by side and I like John's better. John's seems to be much smoother and less reflection off of the glass. They say everyone has a twin somewhere. LOL!!!
12/21/2003 09:50:26 AM · #4
I just looked at the messages about the photo on DPC, and was happy to see that someone has delicately given credit to the original photographer. :)
12/21/2003 09:50:54 AM · #5
Looks like imagesloyola did good with:

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Message edited by author 2003-12-21 09:51:14.
12/21/2003 09:56:55 AM · #6
Originally posted by Yellowpeep:

Did anyone catch the macro/abstract contest winner at //www.digitalphotocontest.com today (12/21)? Looks almost exactly like John's work. Well, I guess it is the best form of flattery?


It's the work of jetstar.

You can go to community>photographer profile and type in peoples' names to find out their username if they are a member or user here at DpChallenge.

Message edited by author 2003-12-21 10:00:54.
12/21/2003 09:58:16 AM · #7
Woo Hoo for ImagesLoyola! Great work and very original concept. :) Love the lighting, and the rest of your wins are also stunning.
12/21/2003 10:05:54 AM · #8
If imitation is the best form of flattery. John must be the most flatteried guy on earth.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/32/thumb/5434.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/32/thumb/5434.jpg', '/') + 1) . 'Johns'original
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/56/thumb/11003.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/56/thumb/11003.jpg', '/') + 1) . 'amonteforte
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/56/thumb/10886.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/56/thumb/10886.jpg', '/') + 1) . 'autool

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/22/thumb/2892.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/22/thumb/2892.jpg', '/') + 1) . 'Johns'original
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/170/thumb/49364.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/170/thumb/49364.jpg', '/') + 1) . 'TerryGee
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/95/thumb/20778.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/95/thumb/20778.jpg', '/') + 1) . 'Jubei Kibagami
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/2223/thumb/16386.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/2223/thumb/16386.jpg', '/') + 1) . 'shutterfly
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/81/thumb/16264.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/81/thumb/16264.jpg', '/') + 1) . 'shutterfly

All of the photos are great reworking of their originals.

Message edited by author 2003-12-21 10:24:21.
12/21/2003 11:09:01 AM · #9
Copying an image is one thing, using the same technique is another. Setz didnt invent the waterdrop technique, he was just the first to use it on DPC. No doubt some people see his waterdrop shot and is inspired by it, but I'm sure there are just as many who dont associate their use of the technique with him either. Claiming Setz as the original and any other use of the technique is imitation is a slap in the face of the photographer(s) who take shots like that. If we were only allowed to take completely original shots then there would be a severe lack of photography in the world.
12/21/2003 11:10:20 AM · #10
Originally posted by Yellowpeep:

I just looked at the messages about the photo on DPC, and was happy to see that someone has delicately given credit to the original photographer. :)


IMHO, there's a big gap between how "delicately" the credit was given and how direct the copy is.
12/21/2003 11:34:38 AM · #11
Originally posted by moodville:

Copying an image is one thing, using the same technique is another. Setz didnt invent the waterdrop technique, he was just the first to use it on DPC. No doubt some people see his waterdrop shot and is inspired by it, but I'm sure there are just as many who dont associate their use of the technique with him either. Claiming Setz as the original and any other use of the technique is imitation is a slap in the face of the photographer(s) who take shots like that. If we were only allowed to take completely original shots then there would be a severe lack of photography in the world.


That's one comment I totally agree with!
12/21/2003 12:21:47 PM · #12
I completely agree. Ironically, I had a very similar waterdrop technique in the same transparency challenge that Setz won. To me, there's being "inspired" by someone's work, and then there's copying it entirely. That's what I saw at DPC, and I'm wondering why the artist did not try a spin on John's photo, instead of trying to perfectly replicate it.
12/21/2003 12:26:13 PM · #13
I don't have anything against copying photo ideas. I think it's what you do with that photo that really matters. Copying a photo is often a great way to learn a technique. I have copied other photos in the past and will continue to do so in the future for this very purpose. When I copy something I have seen, I don't usually bother unless I think I can improve on the original in some way. If I don't think I can improve it, I don't bother. If I unsuccesfully attempt to improve on something, I throw it out.
12/21/2003 12:32:44 PM · #14
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

I don't have anything against copying photo ideas. I think it's what you do with that photo that really matters.


And that's a comment I can totally agree with!

Message edited by author 2003-12-21 12:33:08.
12/21/2003 01:07:01 PM · #15
I too have nothing against copying, for learning purposes.

But I'm still not sure how I feel though about someone directly replicating a 'winner' in hopes of 'cashing in' on it's proven appeal.

I guess it's just human nature to do this. But I would never want to win that badly. I'll either win or lose by my own ideas. At least, that way, if I do succeed, I know I can take full credit :).


12/21/2003 01:24:01 PM · #16
I have taken photos because I saw an idea someone else used that I liked. My entry in the water challenge is based on another picture I saw on here. I wouldn't just completely copy something though like the first picture in this thread. I only use the idea. This is just a blatant copy, even the color of the liquid is the same. Use the idea, not the image.
12/21/2003 01:39:11 PM · #17
I agree that this photo looks like a blatant copy.

If that photo would have been posted on PhoTournament, I would have been forced to reject it.

To use the same technique is one thing, to copy not only the technique, but even the subject, the color scheme etc... becomes a mere exercise and it should not be part of a competition.

Message edited by author 2003-12-21 13:39:45.
12/21/2003 04:02:13 PM · #18
I have to agree with Glimpses.

It looks like a carbon copy, and purposely reversed to "try" and make it look different. I think improving on an idea is the way we all learn. There is nothing wrong with that, but like Mags said... I would not want to use somebody elses winning photo, to capitalize on.

And if you ask me...

He didn't improve anything. John's photo is much better all around.

12/21/2003 05:28:13 PM · #19
Originally posted by glimpses:

I agree that this photo looks like a blatant copy.

If that photo would have been posted on PhoTournament, I would have been forced to reject it.

To use the same technique is one thing, to copy not only the technique, but even the subject, the color scheme etc... becomes a mere exercise and it should not be part of a competition.


I often 'copy' others' photos as well, but when I finally end up doing it, my image almost always looks different (just like when I use a recipe to cook!). I think the copy of Setz's photo is plagiarism.
12/21/2003 06:14:45 PM · #20
Originally posted by magnetic9999:

But I'm still not sure how I feel though about someone directly replicating a 'winner' in hopes of 'cashing in' on it's proven appeal...

I take it you haven't watched TV in the last 30 years?

For gosh sakes, with Mission Impossible, they didn't even bother with new scripts -- they just re-shot the old scripts with new actors.
12/21/2003 07:34:50 PM · #21
Originally posted by dsidwell:

I think the copy of Setz's photo is plagiarism.


that's exactly what it is.
12/21/2003 08:20:16 PM · #22
i know that it goes on, but i would far prefer originality. gosh knows there are tons of talented writers out there that could provide it.

but i also understand that the entertainment industry can't afford to take repeated big risks without sacrificing their profit margins. too many expensive projects that force people to think too hard or whatever and, and they'd go bust.

in large part that explains why they go with proven formulas.

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

But I'm still not sure how I feel though about someone directly replicating a 'winner' in hopes of 'cashing in' on it's proven appeal...

I take it you haven't watched TV in the last 30 years?

For gosh sakes, with Mission Impossible, they didn't even bother with new scripts -- they just re-shot the old scripts with new actors.

12/21/2003 08:44:32 PM · #23
Copying case in point: my shot for water this week. You'll see it when the results appear tonight (it won't get a ribbon), I recently visited the site of photographer Brian Kosoff, and I really like a lot of this stuff. So I set out to 'copy' a photo he did. In the end, my subjects were different, they are placed differently in the frame, and there are other differences that felt better to me. And Mr. Kosoff will not be suing me for plagiarism. Also: I learned some new techniques and skills that I'm sure I'll be using in the future.
12/21/2003 08:59:09 PM · #24
I seriously hate to burst the bubble of Mr. Setzler's greatest fans, but he said it himself with his waterdrop flag photograph--he saw that image in a magazine and decided to recreate it.

Doing something that someone else did is not at all wrong. Sure, it's unoriginal, but it is not wrong.
As for this "But I'm still not sure how I feel though about someone directly replicating a 'winner' in hopes of 'cashing in' on it's proven appeal."
That is understood, but then in some way many of us and many of the Ribbon winners here are 100% guilty of cashing in on someone else's idea.
Has anyone seen a recent issue of Shutterbug? They published the water drop idea from some young girl's portfolio! I am certain she saw it somewhere else--I know I saw the water drop shot around magazines long before I knew of DPC. The same holds true for the shot posted in this thread. I admit however John does a super fine job that he should never be anything less than proud of.
12/21/2003 08:59:10 PM · #25
ha! was just about to list that sort of wine glass photo under the pet peeve thread!!!!!!!
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