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DPChallenge Forums >> Web Site Suggestions >> Rules for Numerical Voting
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12/17/2003 03:28:19 PM · #1
I would like DP Challenge to create and place a section on the site and send an email to the members called "Rules for Voting" telling us what each number means or stands for. For example

I always vote 10 for photos I'd buy or want to hang up on my wall, framed, poster-size.

I vote 9 for photos almost there, but lacking something (usually the OVERALL feel).

I vote down accordingly.

I vote 5 for borderline photos with the right intentions (really tried hard, but failed to capture the subject or has an edge that is cut off or something).

I vote 6 or 4 based on how borderline the photos are (photo quality over subject gets a 6, subject over photo quality gets a 4).

I vote 3 for photos with the subject as their goal, but have little quality (lighting, composition, color/contrast).

I vote 2 for photos that hardly try (snapshots with messy backgrounds or low lighting).

I vote 1 for photos you can't tell the subject or the quality (blurry, messy, confusing, no artistic form, no identifiable subject or theme, no composition, photographer's that just didn't try at all).

I usually vote based on "Is this photo POSTER worthy?" "Would I frame this and put this above my mantle?" I look for 1. does this photo follow the rules. (I was told by other posters in the boards here to vote low on photos that don't follow the rules, and leave comments... not to bother DQing them because the site hardly does anything about DQs for open challenges). 2. Are the composition, lighting, clarity & color/contrast good? 3. Does the subject of the photo capture the theme? 4. The overall look and feel of the photo.

So many people are confused on how to vote. I have been reading about it in the forums. It'd be nice to standardize this a little, or at least have GUIDELINES!!! :)
12/17/2003 03:33:00 PM · #2
Originally posted by mirdonamy:

I would like DP Challenge to create and place a section on the site and send an email to the members called "Rules for Voting" telling us what each number means or stands for. For example

I always vote 10 for photos I'd buy or want to hang up on my wall, framed, poster-size.

I vote 9 for photos almost there, but lacking something (usually the OVERALL feel).

I vote down accordingly.

I vote 5 for borderline photos with the right intentions (really tried hard, but failed to capture the subject or has an edge that is cut off or something).

I vote 6 or 4 based on how borderline the photos are (photo quality over subject gets a 6, subject over photo quality gets a 4).

I vote 3 for photos with the subject as their goal, but have little quality (lighting, composition, color/contrast).

I vote 2 for photos that hardly try (snapshots with messy backgrounds or low lighting).

I vote 1 for photos you can't tell the subject or the quality (blurry, messy, confusing, no artistic form, no identifiable subject or theme, no composition, photographer's that just didn't try at all).

I usually vote based on "Is this photo POSTER worthy?" "Would I frame this and put this above my mantle?" I look for 1. does this photo follow the rules. (I was told by other posters in the boards here to vote low on photos that don't follow the rules, and leave comments... not to bother DQing them because the site hardly does anything about DQs for open challenges). 2. Are the composition, lighting, clarity & color/contrast good? 3. Does the subject of the photo capture the theme? 4. The overall look and feel of the photo.

So many people are confused on how to vote. I have been reading about it in the forums. It'd be nice to standardize this a little, or at least have GUIDELINES!!! :)


I want rules saying that you can only vote for moderately conservative republicans in all USA elections!

And I want rules saying what I must order at the drive through window!

And I want rules saying what clothes I must wear to look good in!

I also want rules saying what music I must listen too, what TV I must watch and what books and magazines I must peruse at the library!

Damn it might get kind of boring with all these rules...
12/17/2003 03:34:05 PM · #3
The only thing I want to comment on:

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

"Is this photo POSTER worthy?" "Would I frame this and put this above my mantle?"


There are excellent shots that are worthy of 9 or 10 that I wouldn't hang on my wall. I don't think it can only be based on that. There are many other things I look for in a photo when scoring it.

Otherwise, I like your idea of providing some sort of guideline, it would just have to be pretty generic in nature due to the variety of people that participate in this site.
12/17/2003 03:37:28 PM · #4
My "1" vote might be your "10" vote, or vice versa. There is no way to provide guidelines for that.
12/17/2003 03:38:04 PM · #5
Originally posted by mirdonamy:

I would like DP Challenge to create and place a section on the site and send an email to the members called "Rules for Voting" telling us what each number means or stands for. For example...


I'm not listeniiing.... LALALALALAL! Can't hear youuuuuu... LALALALALA!' . substr('//www.hawkins.nu/gtchat/images/dance.gif', strrpos('//www.hawkins.nu/gtchat/images/dance.gif', '/') + 1) . '

There are enough rules as it is, don't be pushing more on us, dude' . substr('//www.hawkins.nu/gtchat/images/grin.gif', strrpos('//www.hawkins.nu/gtchat/images/grin.gif', '/') + 1) . '

Message edited by author 2003-12-17 15:39:46.
12/17/2003 03:40:17 PM · #6
There are already guidelines on every voting page:
10 = Good 1 = Bad -
You have a whole range in between to place the shot where you feel it fits.

No one will ever improve on that very simple guideline. Use your own interpretation on where a shot fits on that scale.
12/17/2003 03:40:52 PM · #7
I really don't see that you'd be able to regulate voting at all - frankly, there is very little photograph-wise that I'd hang on my wall. Not being a snob, it's just that I'm not really big on that type of art for my walls - I prefer paintings.

But, I do see from analyzing my own voting patterns and the patterns of voting on my challenge submissions thus far that my tastes do run differently than many. That's not to say that I don't have any taste (tongue firmly planted in cheek) nor to say that others do not either. It's just that we all have different likes and dislikes - based on a lot of different criteria. For me, the biggest thing is "could I go out and make a duplicate of that picture myself any day of the week?" If the answer is yes, then frankly, I'm not particularly impressed. And location or environment doesn't necessarily play into that, although it can. For instance, a recent blue ribbon winner was not to my taste at all - and I think it is because I live in a location where I could go and get the same picture any day, any time. It just wasn't impressive to me. Obviously, that runs contrary to most of the voters on this forum, and that's fine. By the same token, I have to fight within myself to not overrate other pictures from locales that are outside my grasp.

I don't know if this makes sense to anyone else, but it's just my .02 cents.
12/17/2003 04:19:08 PM · #8
No.
12/17/2003 04:20:19 PM · #9
Originally posted by tjuneau13:

There are already guidelines on every voting page:
10 = Good 1 = Bad -
You have a whole range in between to place the shot where you feel it fits.


'Tis a good point - I had forgotten about that being there. It definately is enough of a 'guideline'.

12/17/2003 06:20:11 PM · #10
to the original question - Why?
12/17/2003 06:54:31 PM · #11
I'll put something in this thread that is actually about numerical voting and website suggestions.

I think that it should be mandatory for someone that votes a 1 to leave a comment. My reason for this is twofold; if I got a one from someone, I'd like to know why. Also, (I doubt this is a big problem, but I'm sure it happens) this would make it easier to find dummy accounts that people are using just to vote with.

I guess this would be a pretty stupid request, because the people that vote ones would just start leaving two's so they wouldn't have to comment. haha
12/17/2003 08:08:23 PM · #12
Originally posted by mirdonamy:

I
So many people are confused on how to vote. I have been reading about it in the forums. It'd be nice to standardize this a little, or at least have GUIDELINES!!! :)


There are guidelines 10 = good 1 = bad. I think that is plenty, sometimes it may be too much.

It would be nice to standardize everything, that way, we could all drive the same car, wear the same clothes, use the same toothpaste, deodorant and soap, use the same camera, to take the same picture, to submit to DPC, where we'd always get the same score as everyone else!! EVERY photo would be a WINNER!!
12/17/2003 08:13:24 PM · #13
Originally posted by mirdonamy:

1. does this photo follow the rules. (I was told by other posters in the boards here to vote low on photos that don't follow the rules, and leave comments... not to bother DQing them because the site hardly does anything about DQs for open challenges).


How do you make the judgement if someone is or is NOT following the rules without requesting the original file with the EXIF data. Are you making assumptions in your own mind and if you THINK they are breaking the rules you mark them down? Look at some of the photos in the "How did they do that?" section. Would you have marked some of these down because you couldn't figure out how they did it eventhough they were within the rules? Doesn't seem fair, does it? Follow the rules of the site. You aren't the one to make the call if someone is or is NOT breaking the rules.

Just my 2-cents
12/17/2003 08:27:50 PM · #14
I'm not sure you can set rules for voting. The beauty (and the disadvantage) of the present voting system is that it is whole-heartedly democratic.

However I would like to propose that the hallowed administration consider making it possible to vote from the thumbnail representations rather than always having to open each image. I am on broadband, but it can still take more than an hour to vote on a comp. Frankly, there is rarely any hidden quality in an image that can only be seen at full size. I would like to begin at the 'tweaking' screen that appears when I've voted on all the images. The present system is actually a bit of a deterent for voting at all!
12/17/2003 08:33:03 PM · #15
Originally posted by Paclo:

I'm not sure you can set rules for voting. The beauty (and the disadvantage) of the present voting system is that it is whole-heartedly democratic.

However I would like to propose that the hallowed administration consider making it possible to vote from the thumbnail representations rather than always having to open each image. I am on broadband, but it can still take more than an hour to vote on a comp. Frankly, there is rarely any hidden quality in an image that can only be seen at full size. I would like to begin at the 'tweaking' screen that appears when I've voted on all the images. The present system is actually a bit of a deterent for voting at all!


I can't imagin them ever allowing people to vote on just the thumbs. I think there is always more detail in the larger shot than what is in the thumb. The thumbs are also computer generated which could dramatically affect quality in some images (sharpness, etc). I don't think this would be a good idea. Just my opinion though.
12/17/2003 08:36:02 PM · #16
Originally posted by Paclo:

I'm not sure you can set rules for voting. The beauty (and the disadvantage) of the present voting system is that it is whole-heartedly democratic.

However I would like to propose that the hallowed administration consider making it possible to vote from the thumbnail representations rather than always having to open each image. I am on broadband, but it can still take more than an hour to vote on a comp. Frankly, there is rarely any hidden quality in an image that can only be seen at full size. I would like to begin at the 'tweaking' screen that appears when I've voted on all the images. The present system is actually a bit of a deterent for voting at all!


If you want to vote on only thumbnails, I hope you are forever deterred from ever voting. Please don't vote.
12/17/2003 08:36:55 PM · #17
Originally posted by lhall:

My "1" vote might be your "10" vote, or vice versa. There is no way to provide guidelines for that.


Yes, totally agree.
12/17/2003 08:41:31 PM · #18
I must disagree about thumbnails - I frequently find that what appeared to be "ho hum" in a thumbnail turns out to be quite a knockout in larger format. There is no way I'd want to vote (or be voted upon) from thumbs.
12/17/2003 08:48:11 PM · #19
Originally posted by kaycee:

I must disagree about thumbnails - I frequently find that what appeared to be "ho hum" in a thumbnail turns out to be quite a knockout in larger format. There is no way I'd want to vote (or be voted upon) from thumbs.


Agreed.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/155/thumb/45563.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/155/thumb/45563.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Definitely a "10" if you don't see the big picture.

Message edited by author 2003-12-17 20:50:02.
12/17/2003 09:13:53 PM · #20
Originally posted by faidoi:

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/155/thumb/45563.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/155/thumb/45563.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Definitely a "10" if you don't see the big picture.


124 people rated that over a one. Now that, to me, requires some splaining Lucy. Most of all I'd like to hear from the person that rated it a 6 (better than average). Also, how does an image rank 327 in a challenge that only had 326 entries?
12/17/2003 09:20:24 PM · #21
Originally posted by TechnoShroom:

Originally posted by faidoi:

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/155/thumb/45563.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/155/thumb/45563.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Definitely a "10" if you don't see the big picture.


124 people rated that over a one. Now that, to me, requires some splaining Lucy. Most of all I'd like to hear from the person that rated it a 6 (better than average). Also, how does an image rank 327 in a challenge that only had 326 entries?


I think someone got Dq'd and thus the 327 of 326. I heard Don King gave it the 6. : )
12/17/2003 09:50:44 PM · #22
Originally posted by Riggs:

I think someone got Dq'd and thus the 327 of 326. I heard Don King gave it the 6. : )


I heard that Don King was the one that got DQ'd...
12/17/2003 09:55:42 PM · #23
TooCool, you're hilarious. You make a good point. I think most of this stems from not being happy with the scores they are getting. I know I'm not happy with the score of my simplicity challenge nor with the scores I'm getting currently for the vehicles challenge. But so what? In my ideal world, everyone would score me a ten & I could still vote the way I wanted to, according my preference! :)

Things are grea the way they are. Lots of folks have their own system. Instead of imposing a universal system for everyone (which is impossible to police since people would vote the way they want regardless) why not just come up with one that works for. In the end, folks do the inevitable & vote the way they see fit- let the people vote the way they're gonna vote. You know, the way it is now.

Message edited by author 2003-12-17 22:51:41.
12/18/2003 01:01:29 AM · #24
You all make really good points. I for one believe that everyone has the right to vote, but I am a very structured person by nature. And I feel the voting is a bit off the wall at times. I personally don't know if the way I am voting is the way that is best to vote on photographs. I am not an expert by any means. I have a degree in photography from a Voc Tech school, not a 4 year college. I have spent lots of time critiquing photos, but always using the pattern I illustrated below (quality-contrast-lighting-composition first, subject second, overall feel third). So, that's how I was taught. I wasn't sure if DP Challenge had wanted us to judge photos with standard classroom critique style or just have a free for all.

I am not trying to put rules down for anyone. I just want to do things accurately, and so I am asking for instructions. That's all really. Simple. I believe in equal representation for all, so all should be treated equally. That's why I wanted to see the guidelines. Or maybe a recommended link from DP Challenge saying "click here for lessons in critiquing and use those guidelines" or something. I wasn't trying to choke anyone, please do not look at me that way.

Also, someone asked how I'd know if something was DQ or not if I didn't see the Exif file. Well, I can only tell by basics really. If the rules say no filters or spot editing, and I see a Photoshop "Charcoal" across the entire picture... well, that's using filters. If the rules say No Eyeballs in the photo, and I see an eyeball... then, the photographer didn't follow the rules. I am very careful at what I consider a DQ. It has to be blatently obvious.

I really just want to be a fair voter and do everything the best way to help people become better photographers. I always try to give advice. I never say "nice photo" and end it. I always offer a suggestion or the reason I liked the photo.

Also, I wouldn't put everything up on my walls either (Poster), but for a year, I sold posters to students at my college from the wholesale poster companies. I know what sells. People who want art on their walls buy only the most perfectly composed, lighted, & high quality photographs. I also go to many galleries around town, and it seems the only way to get in them is to have perfectly composed, lighted and high quality photos. It doesn't matter what the subject is, as long as the photo is frameable.

Thanks for listening. Good luck in the challenges!
12/18/2003 04:34:42 AM · #25
Arielle, seems like you have a structure for your voting already. This place is never going to be turned into the supra-regulated place you seem to be asking for - it's the net, and therefore by definition unregulated. All you(we) can do is have our own scheme, and stick with it, and hope that your(our) contribution is appreciated.

Ed
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