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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Reflective symmetry & flower macros (Symmetry II)
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 05/04/2007 02:18:29 AM · #1
Hey all!

While commenting and voting on the Symmetry II challenge, I notice that a lot of pictures fall in the category of LLRs, Landscape Lake Reflections. Personnally, I do not thoroughly like these images (although some are beautiful!), mainly because the symmetry in the picture is only available in the picture and not in the subject at hand (the landscape). This opposed to buildings or man-made structures, crystals, head on pictures of animals, etc.

I wonder what you guys (and girls! ;)) think about LLRs being used in a challenge like the symmetry challenge and whether you change your vote accordingly. I certainly do not find that those images should be withheld, be DQed when entered, but I only wonder whether you like them or not and find them original enough.

The same question also goes for Flower Macros, FMs.. They seem to be entered in almost every challenge, appropriate or not ;). In this challenge I am yet to see a truly symmetrical flower (I expect them not to exist actually), but there are lots of FMs being entered. What do you think?

Personally, I find both LLRs and FMs to be a bit of a creativity drain on the challenge: there is so much real symmetry in the world!

Edit in response to SaraR: I'm sorry, I should've waited until the voting is finished, it might indeed be better to shut it off now. (or make it invisible or something) The thread is not at all meant to change voting behavior, it sprouted from my own observations during the voting.

I see your point of view regarding creativity and (may I summarize it as?) emotional and curiousity appeal. For me, the drive to photograph is to let out my creativity, so it might be a personal annoyance if beautiful though 'cliche' pictures win. My point of view is that they should mostly be saved for special challenges and the free studies, which would also push the photographers to become more diverse and versatile.

Message edited by author 2007-05-04 03:38:30.
 05/04/2007 02:42:16 AM · #2
I have only come across a couple of entries that I have felt were misplaced - but I have withheld my vote for these and shall return to try and see if I can understand where the photographer was coming from. In my eyes this challenge has produced some of the most gorgeous entries of any recent challenge - a real variety of photographs, and it is such a pleasure voting! I would disagree strongly that landscape reflections are out of place (mine isn't one), and I don't really understand why originality should be the driver. At the end of the day few photographs are truly original; for me the photographs that receive a high score are those that are technically sound and also reach out to me in some way, that make me want to stay and explore the image.

Edit: It does strike me that this thread may be deemed to be trying to influence scores during the voting stage of a challenge, and as such perhaps should be locked and the ideas revisited once the results are out.

Message edited by author 2007-05-04 02:44:14.
 05/04/2007 09:00:53 AM · #3
I have just finished voting and have found that the photos that appealled to me the most were ones where people have made and effort to find something that is a close to symmetrical as possible. This ended up being mostly buildings etc and tend to have really abstract features. These, for me anyway, represent the word symmetrical perfectly. Even though there is symmetry in nature it is rarely perfected in nature. Dont get me wrong as I love nature photography but I think that the challenge theme gave all of us the opportunity to think a little outside the square and a lot choose to do it the easy way by photographing flowers, etc. 99% of the photos were of a very high standard and I enjoyed voting on 100% of the submissions.

Message edited by author 2007-05-04 09:01:13.
 05/04/2007 09:11:42 AM · #4
Neither bother me as much as your flagrant abuse of acronyms.

=)
 05/04/2007 09:25:29 AM · #5
Originally posted by aliqui:
Neither bother me as much as your flagrant abuse of acronyms.

=)


Huh, presume you didn't mean me as I din't use any.

:0)
 05/04/2007 09:33:56 AM · #6
Attempt here to influence voting on specific images. Why is this visible during voting????
 05/04/2007 09:36:03 AM · #7
Originally posted by hahn23:
Attempt here to influence voting on specific images. Why is this visible during voting????


It discusses aspects of the challenge topic, but it does not discuss a specific entry. It's a gray area, yes, but we cannot, and should not, prohibit all discussion of the challenge topic. That would be a tremendous drain on the instructional nature of the site.
 05/04/2007 09:36:04 AM · #8
I hear you point about trying to influence voters - not a good idea people.

But I ain't going to be influenced! A good symmetrical image is a good symmetrical image. Natural symmetry is just as good if not better than man made...

And remember folks - symmetry is just not mirror images along one plane - symmetry can occur in three dimensions!

Originally posted by hahn23:
Attempt here to influence voting on specific images. Why is this visible during voting????


Message edited by author 2007-05-04 09:38:31.
 05/04/2007 09:39:26 AM · #9
I've really enjoyed the water reflection symmetry shots, and the flower photos as well. Then there were some very unique creative photos in there also. Heck, they're all good (mostly) as long as they have symmetry - yes? :D

Actually, I enjoy water reflection symmetry and flower shots much better than I do threads like these while voting is still active (although I admit to being guilty of berating the EE ruleset in active challenges). :P
 05/04/2007 09:41:07 AM · #10
IMO, whether symmetry is created by reflection, or is physically present makes no difference. Symmetry is created in the final image, and that's what counts.
 05/04/2007 09:45:30 AM · #11
Originally posted by RPvanderHilst:
... For me, the drive to photograph is to let out my creativity, so it might be a personal annoyance if beautiful though 'cliche' pictures win. ...

Hey. You're not doing too bad for a first challenge with a score of 5.6582. You've even garnered 4 comments. :) Not bad for a "creative" shot...the "cliche" shots are kind of a mixed bag, either they rise to the top or fail miserably. :P
 05/04/2007 09:46:45 AM · #12
Originally posted by Monique64:
Originally posted by aliqui:
Neither bother me as much as your flagrant abuse of acronyms.

=)


Huh, presume you didn't mean me as I din't use any.

:0)


That's a good assumption, heh.
 05/07/2007 05:20:15 AM · #13
the title is "current challenge" it implies that details about the CURRENT challenge shall be discussed!

anyway, to the person who started this post (too lazy to go back and look at the name) i agree COMPLETELY!

i was getting very frustrated and wanted to write DNMC or IMO DNMC or symmetry? under every photo that wasn't symmetrical. thankfully, i resisted the urge.

what i did instead was rated the ones that were carefully executed and the most symmetrical the highest.

i do believe that LLMs and FMs are a creativity drain, but since I am a beginner, I'm sure my creativity will take a while to develop as well.
 05/07/2007 06:02:16 AM · #14
I fully agree with kirbic, symmetry is in the image, period.
 05/07/2007 06:30:35 AM · #15
As a viewer and voter I am certainly not looking just for symmetrical compositions; providing the photographer has taken symmetry as the broad theme, that is good enough for me - indeed only one of the three photographs to which I have given a 10 is compositionally symmetrical.
 05/16/2007 06:48:20 PM · #16
Kirbic...you are exactly right! I feel that the original post does NOT threaten the voting. We should be able to discuss a challenge while it is going on as long as it doesn't mention the "specific aspects of an image".

To say that the original is an attempt to influence voting on specific images is out of line! It is almost an insult considering the OP was from a new member!

Now about the OP...I did see some landscapes and other images that were surely not as symmetrical as others and I voted a lower score on those based how they compared to the REALLY symmetrical images.

Some of the landscapes IMO were not completly symmetrical.

That's all !

Originally posted by kirbic:
Originally posted by hahn23:
Attempt here to influence voting on specific images. Why is this visible during voting????


It discusses aspects of the challenge topic, but it does not discuss a specific entry. It's a gray area, yes, but we cannot, and should not, prohibit all discussion of the challenge topic. That would be a tremendous drain on the instructional nature of the site.
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