30 Day Black and White Challenge - May 2007

Olympus 45mm f1.8 M.Zuiko Digital Micro Four Thirds

04/26/2007 11:41:01 PM · #102

Originally posted by BeckyT:

I read somewhere that grayscale is not such a good idea either. I shoot in color and then convert to B/W. I get assistance from the book "The photoshop CS2 book for Digital Photographers" by Scott Kelby. It is a pretty good book. It shows you a number of techniques for converting to B/W.

I have PS 7. Probably has some of the same techniques. But I know me, I'll never go get the book. I don't read. lol I just look at examples and go from there.

colorcarnival

Olympus 45mm f1.8 M.Zuiko Digital Micro Four Thirds

04/26/2007 11:42:34 PM · #103

Originally posted by _eug:

I've read some people here describe the channel mixer thing and I did not get it. I don't know enough about it in the first place and I think that is my problem. I like doing the grayscale too. The ultimate in lazy tho - I just use the setting in my camera lol.

ursula

Fujifilm X-T2

Fujifilm XF 55-200mm f/3.5-4.8 R LM OIS

04/26/2007 11:59:20 PM · #104

Originally posted by _eug:

Originally posted by colorcarnival:
Now I want to know from you all, do you take your pics in black and white or do you take it in color and then convert? And how do you convert it? I heard grayscale is not such a good idea.

For some of us, our cameras don't do B&W. We have to convert it in post-processing. I think all Nikons are that way, but I may be wrong. There are as many different ways to convert as there are people. ;)

I think you're right. None of the Nikons do B/W. Since in digital B/W is a conversion from colour anyway, in a way you're better off shooting colour even if your camera does B/W, and then converting in PP.

I believe that if you're shooting RAW (not only Nikon, but any RAW), even when you set it to B/W, the RAW image is recorded as colour, but shows as B/W. I may be wrong about that, not sure.

I guess, for myself, what I'd like to learn is not so much the conversion process, there's a ton of different ways to convert a colour image to B/W. What I'd really like to learn is to "think" in B/W. To see images as B/W before shooting, even though in a digital world they are recorded as colour. In other words, I'd really like to learn to shoot for B/W, not shoot for whatever and then later decide that the image might look better in B/W rather than colour. To think in B/W. I don't know how to do that :)

Message edited by author 2007-04-27 00:02:06.

Fujifilm XF 55-200mm f/3.5-4.8 R LM OIS

04/27/2007 01:02:35 AM · #105

Originally posted by ursula:

In other words, I'd really like to learn to shoot for B/W, not shoot for whatever and then later decide that the image might look better in B/W rather than colour. To think in B/W. I don't know how to do that :)

its a shame they dont sell glasses like sunglasses that convert to b&w for our eyes ...!! :)
and thanx for answering a question only moments before i was going to ask it !!.. which is ... 'is it better to shoot in b&w, or shoot in colour and then convert in RAW, or wotever program you use, to b&w after download??' ... i will now shoot in colour and convert afterwards ..

ursula

Fujifilm X-T2

04/27/2007 01:07:20 AM · #106

Originally posted by roz:

Originally posted by ursula:
In other words, I'd really like to learn to shoot for B/W, not shoot for whatever and then later decide that the image might look better in B/W rather than colour. To think in B/W. I don't know how to do that :)

its a shame they dont sell glasses like sunglasses that convert to b&w for our eyes ...!! :)
and thanx for answering a question only moments before i was going to ask it !!.. which is ... 'is it better to shoot in b&w, or shoot in colour and then convert in RAW, or wotever program you use, to b&w after download??' ... i will now shoot in colour and convert afterwards ..

Oh, no, roz, don't follow my advise. That's just my opinion. I really have no idea which is better - to my mind it's better that way, but I really don't know if it is or not :)

Somewhere I read about trying to visualize in B/W when you're looking at stuff in colour. I've tried it, but I don't think I'm any good at it :(

Message edited by author 2007-04-27 01:10:19.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

04/27/2007 01:11:24 AM · #107

Originally posted by colorcarnival:

i think with a lot of these actions, like channel mixer for eg, you really have to get in there and muck around ... a bit of information coming from those who know is always a very very good thing, but it really means nothing till you do it yourself ... once you've spent time making mistakes, and getting it right, you'll definitely 'get it'better then!!:)

i just read ... Originally posted by MAK:
Curves is a good tool for getting good tones, if you use the droplet tool on curves black and ehit one (the grey does not have much effect unless you using it on a colour image) if you select the Black droplet tool and click on the photo where you want it to be total BLACK, then do the same with the white, you will see nice tones in your shot. Then add contrast to taste.
i dont actually get it!! ... coz i've never used it before ... if i really want to understand wot he is saying i'll have to get in there and try it out ... then i'd ask questions .. coz i'd have more knowledge, if there were bits i still didnt understand ...
michelle .. what i'm saying might not be relevant to you, but if you have tried and are still having trouble .. then ask ...
hopefully wot i'v said might help someone tho ... i'm just trying to help ... :)

Message edited by author 2007-04-27 01:30:15.

edmeng

Apple iPhone 13 Pro

04/27/2007 01:19:50 AM · #108

I�d like to be in too, what should I do?

04/27/2007 01:24:54 AM · #109

WARNING WARNING ....
that was just to get your attention ...!!:)
this is some information that steve

stdavidson put in the thread where he gives critiques ... critiques by steve .. i cant sing his praises enough !!!
Practice is a better teacher than most tutorials. To better understand post processing and get a great mentored experience I recommend this site: radiant vista tutorials
It is probably the best source of photo editing and Photoshop specific information on the Internet. It is organized into sets of video tutorials that will teach you more about photoshop and image processing in a painless fashion than any other source. It takes an informative, walk-along with the guru style presentation and it works, from simple photo editing of user submitted images to extensive tutorials.
i tried one tutorial a few weeks ago, and it was just excellent .. in 20 minutes i learnt just so much .. and not just on the particular subject but other little things as well ... like for instance .. duplicating your layer by dragging down the layer itself into the 'add new layer' box at the bottom of the layer palette .. i dont have photoshop open at the moment, so hope i got terminology right ...
you can listen to the tutorial and do it at the same time, which is advisable ...

Message edited by author 2007-04-27 01:28:05.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

04/27/2007 01:33:09 AM · #110

Originally posted by edmeng:

I�d like to be in too, what should I do?

i'm sure michelle will add your name to this growing list of wannabe b&w photographers!!! .. if you go to the beginning of this thread you'll see the list so far .. of course she's not sitting at her computer 24/7 so you may not be on the list for a while .. but as the 1st may draws nearer and if youre not on the list let her know either with a pm or another post here ..
b&w ... any subject ... any edit .... start 1st may ... a photograph a day .. but if you cant manage it ... wotever you can do .. go for it!!!!!!

Message edited by author 2007-04-27 01:46:21.

edmeng

Apple iPhone 13 Pro

04/27/2007 01:38:35 AM · #111

Originally posted by roz:

Originally posted by edmeng:
I�d like to be in too, what should I do?

i'm sure michelle will add your name to this growing list of wannabe b&w photographers!!! .. if you go to the beginning of this thread you'll see the list so far .. of course she's not sitting at her computer 24/7 so you may not be on the list for a while .. but as the 1st may draws nearer and if youre not on the list let her know either with a pm or another post here ..
b&w ... any subject ... any edit .... start 1st may ... a photograph a day .. but if you cant manage it ... wotever you can do .. got for it!!!!!!

Thank you Roz, I'm in and i'll do my best to keep up with a group.

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/27/2007 01:40:58 AM · #112

Originally posted by edmeng:

I�d like to be in too, what should I do?

Gather firewood.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

04/27/2007 01:49:10 AM · #113

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by edmeng:
I�d like to be in too, what should I do?

Gather firewood.

either he's suggesting that you may be left out in the cold .. or that we're all witches in here .. be not afraid .. you will not be left out in the cold and we will not coz your .....'s to drop off ...!!:)

edmeng

Apple iPhone 13 Pro

04/27/2007 01:53:48 AM · #114

Originally posted by roz:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by edmeng:
I�d like to be in too, what should I do?

Gather firewood.

either he's suggesting that you may be left out in the cold .. or that we're all witches in here .. be not afraid .. you will not be left out in the cold and we will not coz your .....'s to drop off ...!!:)

Thanks Roz, feel better now, but I�ve got some wood at my backyard.

boysetsfire

Canon EOS-5D

04/27/2007 01:56:32 AM · #115

Originally posted by colorcarnival:

Originally posted by _eug:
I tend to be lazy about it and just do grayscale, but I recently found Picasa does filtered B&W which allows you to use a color picker to have different parts of the image pop. Many people with REAL Photoshop use the chanels mixer to do this kind of filtering.

I've read some people here describe the channel mixer thing and I did not get it. I don't know enough about it in the first place and I think that is my problem. I like doing the grayscale too. The ultimate in lazy tho - I just use the setting in my camera lol.

if your not comfortable with the chanel mixer (i only use it sometimes) simple desaturation on your image comes up looking "true" to the tones that are captured. most of my images are done like this and i believe Ed

e301 does it this way also (i may be wrong) take a look at his b/w images and not much more needs to be said.

04/27/2007 01:57:29 AM · #116

i was an idiot and totally lame ... my sense of humour leaves a lot to be desired .. so i deleted it ...:)

Message edited by author 2007-04-27 02:02:25.

bergiekat

Canon EOS-5D Mark IV

Canon EF 24-70 2.8L II

04/27/2007 02:15:49 AM · #117

Originally posted by roz:

i was an idiot and totally lame ... my sense of humour leaves a lot to be desired .. so i deleted it ...:)

I quite like your sense of humour, lol! Give 'em hell Roz! ;)

04/27/2007 02:18:23 AM · #118

Originally posted by boysetsfire:

Originally posted by colorcarnival:

Originally posted by _eug:
I tend to be lazy about it and just do grayscale, but I recently found Picasa does filtered B&W which allows you to use a color picker to have different parts of the image pop. Many people with REAL Photoshop use the chanels mixer to do this kind of filtering.

I've read some people here describe the channel mixer thing and I did not get it. I don't know enough about it in the first place and I think that is my problem. I like doing the grayscale too. The ultimate in lazy tho - I just use the setting in my camera lol.

if your not comfortable with the chanel mixer (i only use it sometimes) simple desaturation on your image comes up looking "true" to the tones that are captured. most of my images are done like this and i believe Ed e301 does it this way also (i may be wrong) take a look at his b/w images and not much more needs to be said.

i think this needs to be said .. and please dont misunderstand me, coz i'm not being rude ...
but from memory ... when you use the channel mixer and go monochrome then adjust the sliding scales on the individual colours then you will achieve quite a different b&w image than if you just do a straight desat ... if i'm wrong please correct me ... :) .. and just because one photographer can achieve excellent results with a straight desat doesnt mean that others might not want to try the chanel mixer for different effects ... :)

Message edited by author 2007-04-27 02:42:08.

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/27/2007 02:19:50 AM · #119

Originally posted by bergiekat:

Originally posted by roz:
i was an idiot and totally lame ... my sense of humour leaves a lot to be desired .. so i deleted it ...:)

I quite like your sense of humour, lol! Give 'em hell Roz! ;)

you are obviously a masochist and totally insane .... :) the last bit i like ... the first ... hmmmmmmmmm ... :)

Art Roflmao

Canon EOS-6D Mark II

04/27/2007 03:24:05 AM · #120

Originally posted by roz:

This is correct - different results from:
- CTRL+SHIFT+U (instant desat)
- Adjust Hue & desat individaul color ranges or all ("master")
- Levels, Monochrome, adjust R,G & B

Sometimes instant desat works great, sometimes not. Best to make a copy layer and try different methods and compare - or even then blend the various versions by changing blending modes and adjusting opacity of layers. The best method usually depends on the tones and lighting of the original image.

Also - you can use the Shadow/Highlights adjustment (Image|Adjustment menu) to make things pop.

Key: Experiment.

edit: I forgot the key. ;-)

Message edited by author 2007-04-27 03:24:57.

MAK

Leica M Monochrom

Voigtlander Ultron 21mm f1.8

04/27/2007 03:40:24 AM · #121

WOW it got bigger overnight

Glad to see SC members joining, especially the likes of mk & Ursula EXCELLENT...

jdannels

Nikon D300s

Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC HSM for Nikon

04/27/2007 04:19:27 AM · #122

Here is how I set up most of my workflow in Cs2 for B&W(from top layer down). However I start with bottom, so it my be easier to read from the bottom up. I know confusing, but here it is.

7)Curves or levels adjustment(for final contrast weaks) sometimes more than one
6)Black and White Gradient Map adjustment layer
5)Selective Color adjustment layer-First make this but don't use it, after you make the gradient map, come back to it.(Then I play with each color mostly with the black slider to lighten or darker certain colors in the photo, although the other sliders can make subtle changes too)
4)Copy of Image Layer(with shadow/highlights adjustment) set to 50%. On this layer I do all my dodging and burning. I start at 50% then slide it around if I have done too much to change how present the dodge and burn is.
3)Copy of image Layer and run shadows/highlight adjustment. I can then fade the overall effect using the opacity slider.
2)Image Layer copy-just in case I get all screwed up I still have the original to go back to.
1)Image Layer

Thats the general template anyway.

I thought I read that

e301, when converting from raw he desaturates the image in a raw converter and than does all of his adjustments with those sliders. I tried that with my hate entry, all I did after I converted it was add a curve.
For reference

The tutorial on this site is really good too :)
Hope this helps some. I have a feeling its just confusing, LoL.

Retroesque

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

04/27/2007 05:12:50 AM · #123

Originally posted by jdannels:

That's what's GREAT about you Joe, not only are you a kick-arse photographer, with a fabulous eye - you are both generous and friendly regarding your knowledge and techniques - THAT's why it's nice working in your presence - you inspire AND support!