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04/23/2007 03:08:57 PM · #101
Originally posted by Azrifel:



I amopposed to this idea, because I browse the thumbnails first to see if there is enough promising material there to even start voting.


Ahhhhh, and here is the very reason I'm for it. Someone deciding the quality of the images by looking at the thumbs.
04/23/2007 03:10:41 PM · #102
Originally posted by fir3bird:

Originally posted by jmsetzler:


2. Do not allow voters to view thumbnails before voting on a photo. This would eliminate selective voting and also place more votes in the system when a voter chooses to vote selectively.

I kinda like this one. Maybe we should mull this one over a bit.
That would eliminate the thumbnail cherry picking that I know goes on. ...

Have you ever tried to vote by using the thumbnails? :) If you click on a thumbnail image, then vote, you have go back twice (browser back btn - IE anyway) to get back to the thumbnail page. The other option would be to right-click and open each thumbnail in a new window which is also a pain because you have to do it for each image. Point I'm trying to make is that it's time consuming to vote via thumbnails and extra effort is required to do it. Not sure that many people would go to this effort, even at a 20% vote minimum to make it count.

Either way, having said all of the above, as I mentioned in an earlier post, thumbnails are nice to have if all you want to do is comment. Next to each thumbnail image is an icon that is for commenting only purposes. It's quite handy.

So, if you want to eliminate thumbnails, fine...but please leave an option for thumbnail commenting. Thanks! :)
04/23/2007 03:13:27 PM · #103
Originally posted by fir3bird:

Originally posted by klstover:


But I really am not comfortable with the "oh, this looks like a whiterook shot, so I'm going to give it a 10." There have been plenty of comments like this on his shots.



I think you'll find this kind of stuff is mostly tongue in cheek.
If you look at that too close, you're really going to have to look
at people who purposely go for low scores as well. I guess I'm going to have to quit voting on whiterook stuff. I've got to where I recognize his work. And his work really is genius...... It's so bad, well.... it's good!!!!!! Now tell me how to vote on that! heheheh


Well right! In my opinion it is possible to at the same time recognize a whiterook shot and also feel, fairly, that it deserves a high score. What I really am talking about is the people who want to give 10s to "mess up the brown ribbon attempt".

edit for clarity.

Message edited by author 2007-04-23 15:14:18.
04/23/2007 03:15:49 PM · #104
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Uh-oh... Setzler has two cents :)

The nature of DPChallenge promotes this type of behavior. It's a sad but true fact of online competitions. It's also not abnormal. The objective here is to win. Looking for extra advantages is natural.

There are several modifications to the site that would minimize any impact created by swing voting practices. These minor changes would not require much effort to implement either. A possible solution to the issue:

1. Increase the minimum required voting from 20% to something much higher, such as 50%. Putting more votes in the system would naturally balance a few swing votes.

2. Do not allow voters to view thumbnails before voting on a photo. This would eliminate selective voting and also place more votes in the system when a voter chooses to vote selectively.


I understand where both points are coming from but I'm afraid both will cause lesser votes.. for me personally 20% is sometimes hard enough and I need the thumbnails to vote for uni-safe pics.. I mean there is a limit to how many times I can explain off the half naked guy on my screen to passing by teachers [We have a no tolerance for pornography policy.. for most people naked people are porn] and this has happened to me twice!! and only guys show up on screen.. what are the chances!!] Since I normally vote mostly in uni I try to remember to keep checking the thumbnails...try being the keyword here. If I'm not sure what surprise is waiting for me on the other side I ain't voting..

Besides going back to change votes would be such a pain!



Message edited by author 2007-04-23 15:19:10.
04/23/2007 03:18:41 PM · #105
Originally posted by yanko:


You know I hear about this cherry picking as if it's a bad thing. Can someone exactly explain why it's a bad thing? What is the difference between voting on 20% that is random vs 20% that you "cherry picked"?


I believe it would more fairly distribute the vote. If we had 100 percent voting requirement I'd say no difference at all. But with only 20 percent I believe it needs to be a truly random selection. In my opinion every image deserves a vote. That's why it is entered. Not so you can skip over it and just vote on the good stuff. Your vote on these images might not be high. I don't believe lower scoring images will score any better at all. But at least they deserve the chance to be rated, just as much as the good images do. But you're right. Never mind. It's a bad idea. Let's keep everything the same.
04/23/2007 03:19:00 PM · #106
Originally posted by fir3bird:

Originally posted by Azrifel:



I amopposed to this idea, because I browse the thumbnails first to see if there is enough promising material there to even start voting.


Ahhhhh, and here is the very reason I'm for it. Someone deciding the quality of the images by looking at the thumbs.


Looking at the overall content of a challenge is not the same as individually selecting which images to vote on based on their quality.
04/23/2007 03:19:27 PM · #107
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

A possible solution to the issue:

1. Increase the minimum required voting from 20% to something much higher, such as 50%. Putting more votes in the system would naturally balance a few swing votes.

2. Do not allow voters to view thumbnails before voting on a photo. This would eliminate selective voting and also place more votes in the system when a voter chooses to vote selectively.


I am in favor of both these suggestions - especially the "no thumbnail" one. It would minimize the "friend votes" as you wouldn't be able to tell how many pictures you had to vote on before the picture you intended to vote high was shown. And I doubt anyone would go through 5-600 votes just to give a friend or spouse a 9 or 10.
04/23/2007 03:20:39 PM · #108
Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:

... I need the thumbnails to vote for uni-safe pics.. I mean there is a limit to how many times I can explain off the half naked guy on my screen to passing by teachers [We have a no tolerance for pornography policy.. for most people naked people are porn] and this has happened to me twice!! and only guys show up on screen.. what are the chances!!] Since I normally vote mostly in uni I try to remember to keep checking the thumbnails...try being the keyword here. If I'm not sure what surprise is waiting for me on the other side I ain't voting..

I ran into this recently myself voting a current challenge (made a note of it in the related scores thread). Usually what works for me when I'm going to vote on a challenge is to scan the thumbnails at home (forgot to do that with the above mentioned scenario) and vote those images I can't pull up at work.
04/23/2007 03:25:42 PM · #109
Originally posted by silverscreen:

I am in favor of both these suggestions - especially the "no thumbnail" one. It would minimize the "friend votes" as you wouldn't be able to tell how many pictures you had to vote on before the picture you intended to vote high was shown. And I doubt anyone would go through 5-600 votes just to give ...


Your progess in voting is available on the voting page for every entry in the challenge. ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/501724.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/501724.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
04/23/2007 03:26:53 PM · #110
In reality, it's not DPC's responsibility to protect people who screw off at work :) If everyone is voting at work, then there really shouldn't be a problem to require a 100% vote :)
04/23/2007 03:28:51 PM · #111
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:

... I need the thumbnails to vote for uni-safe pics.. I mean there is a limit to how many times I can explain off the half naked guy on my screen to passing by teachers [We have a no tolerance for pornography policy.. for most people naked people are porn] and this has happened to me twice!! and only guys show up on screen.. what are the chances!!] Since I normally vote mostly in uni I try to remember to keep checking the thumbnails...try being the keyword here. If I'm not sure what surprise is waiting for me on the other side I ain't voting..

I ran into this recently myself voting a current challenge (made a note of it in the related scores thread). Usually what works for me when I'm going to vote on a challenge is to scan the thumbnails at home (forgot to do that with the above mentioned scenario) and vote those images I can't pull up at work.


Oh my god - that can't be true...??? (But I guess it is since you are saying so).

Now I understand why you don't want the "no thumbs" rule. I'm really happy that I've never experienced strict rules like that in my part of the world (and I can't imagine I ever will either).
04/23/2007 03:29:16 PM · #112
Originally posted by fir3bird:

Originally posted by Azrifel:



I amopposed to this idea, because I browse the thumbnails first to see if there is enough promising material there to even start voting.


Ahhhhh, and here is the very reason I'm for it. Someone deciding the quality of the images by looking at the thumbs.


You know, after 75000 votes I can get a pretty good idea of what to expect in a whole challenge just looking at the thumbs. My time is valuable, for example a "Hair" challenge is not something that appeals to me, but after I browsed the thumbs I decided to vote on the whole challenge and leave a few comments. If I hadn't seen the thumbs I wouldn't have bothered.


04/23/2007 03:30:51 PM · #113
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by silverscreen:

I am in favor of both these suggestions - especially the "no thumbnail" one. It would minimize the "friend votes" as you wouldn't be able to tell how many pictures you had to vote on before the picture you intended to vote high was shown. And I doubt anyone would go through 5-600 votes just to give ...


Your progess in voting is available on the voting page for every entry in the challenge. ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/501724.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/30049/thumb/501724.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


Yes, I know that - but it doesn't say anything about when a certain picture will show up.
04/23/2007 03:37:04 PM · #114
So what do u think is the motivation for these so called rings? Is'nt it possible that this WPL thing has promoted this kind of behaviour. Why would'nt it? Team's certainly operate better with team effort.
I for one would prefer the 1 on 1 and keep WPL as a separate entity, but thats another thread.

04/23/2007 03:39:40 PM · #115
Originally posted by silverscreen:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:

... I need the thumbnails to vote for uni-safe pics.. I mean there is a limit to how many times I can explain off the half naked guy on my screen to passing by teachers [We have a no tolerance for pornography policy.. for most people naked people are porn] and this has happened to me twice!! and only guys show up on screen.. what are the chances!!] Since I normally vote mostly in uni I try to remember to keep checking the thumbnails...try being the keyword here. If I'm not sure what surprise is waiting for me on the other side I ain't voting..

I ran into this recently myself voting a current challenge (made a note of it in the related scores thread). Usually what works for me when I'm going to vote on a challenge is to scan the thumbnails at home (forgot to do that with the above mentioned scenario) and vote those images I can't pull up at work.


Oh my god - that can't be true...??? (But I guess it is since you are saying so).

Now I understand why you don't want the "no thumbs" rule. I'm really happy that I've never experienced strict rules like that in my part of the world (and I can't imagine I ever will either).


[gossip]Actually the rule came into being when a student was caught being touchy feely with himself in a room full of thirty people... O_o[/gossip] Don't think anyone would consider that polite no matter where you are..

In my defense I go to uni at 8 and come back at 7... My eyes will shoot me if I don't give them rest from the screen glares... that's why I do my voting there..

Message edited by author 2007-04-23 15:42:20.
04/23/2007 03:47:01 PM · #116
Originally posted by dmadden:

So what do u think is the motivation for these so called rings? Is'nt it possible that this WPL thing has promoted this kind of behaviour. Why would'nt it? Team's certainly operate better with team effort.
I for one would prefer the 1 on 1 and keep WPL as a separate entity, but thats another thread.


I think very few of these cases reflect actual malicious intent but rather are instances of friends/family members who believe they were doing a favor for each other, without thinking about how it might affect the rest of the site. Regardless of the motivation, it's not right, but I don't believe that, in most cases at least, these are people who were just gunning to win at any cost.
04/23/2007 03:50:17 PM · #117
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

In reality, it's not DPC's responsibility to protect people who screw off at work :) If everyone is voting at work, then there really shouldn't be a problem to require a 100% vote :)

Dang. I thought the NSFW issue had come up before in the forums, and/or voting at work - i.e "how many people vote at work", etc...

Couldn't find anything relevant except for this thread, which is a short 1 pager. Voting on Gold at work - Warning...
04/23/2007 03:50:20 PM · #118
this is a good point ! despite what mk said ;}

Originally posted by dmadden:

So what do u think is the motivation for these so called rings? Is'nt it possible that this WPL thing has promoted this kind of behaviour. Why would'nt it? Team's certainly operate better with team effort.
I for one would prefer the 1 on 1 and keep WPL as a separate entity, but thats another thread.

04/23/2007 03:52:56 PM · #119
Originally posted by klstover:

Well right! In my opinion it is possible to at the same time recognize a whiterook shot and also feel, fairly, that it deserves a high score. What I really am talking about is the people who want to give 10s to "mess up the brown ribbon attempt".

edit for clarity.


"messing up a brown ribbon attempt" is a reaction to a photo, not a person... besides, just how Big Brotherish do you want this place to be?

04/23/2007 03:54:12 PM · #120
Also, I don't believe it was mentioned in the official post but I believe it's been posted in other forums before so I hope I'm not giving away secrets (eep!), DPL members will not be able to vote for other members of their team. So even if you believe it's been an issue in the past, it won't be in the future. :)
04/23/2007 04:00:25 PM · #121
Originally posted by mk:

Also, I don't believe it was mentioned in the official post but I believe it's been posted in other forums before so I hope I'm not giving away secrets (eep!), DPL members will not be able to vote for other members of their team. So even if you believe it's been an issue in the past, it won't be in the future. :)


oohh..... It's such a simple idea yet it takes away the whole problem so effectively.. Great!

Note apparent enthusiasm is soley because I'm a sadistic being.. Muwaahhaa.. and because I'm not in any team.. hehe fun to see if anyone protests...

Message edited by author 2007-04-23 16:24:56.
04/23/2007 04:00:54 PM · #122
Originally posted by mk:

Also, I don't believe it was mentioned in the official post but I believe it's been posted in other forums before so I hope I'm not giving away secrets (eep!), DPL members will not be able to vote for other members of their team. So even if you believe it's been an issue in the past, it won't be in the future. :)

<sarcasm on>
That's cool. It will make it easier to influence the team results then. Just vote all the good photos in the challenges low and you know for sure you're not impacting your fellow team members.
<sarcasm off>
04/23/2007 04:03:57 PM · #123
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by mk:

Also, I don't believe it was mentioned in the official post but I believe it's been posted in other forums before so I hope I'm not giving away secrets (eep!), DPL members will not be able to vote for other members of their team. So even if you believe it's been an issue in the past, it won't be in the future. :)

<sarcasm on>
That's cool. It will make it easier to influence the team results then. Just vote all the good photos in the challenges low and you know for sure you're not impacting your fellow team members.
<sarcasm off>


Well that would make more people vote on all the entries instead of just 20%. :P
04/23/2007 04:05:18 PM · #124
Originally posted by glad2badad:


<sarcasm on>
That's cool. It will make it easier to influence the team results then. Just vote all the good photos in the challenges low and you know for sure you're not impacting your fellow team members.
<sarcasm off>


Don't worry. We're getting together next week to make the decision that everyone on the site is happy with. Drinks and party to follow.

<my sarcasm does not have an off button>
04/23/2007 04:07:28 PM · #125
Originally posted by yanko:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by mk:

Also, I don't believe it was mentioned in the official post but I believe it's been posted in other forums before so I hope I'm not giving away secrets (eep!), DPL members will not be able to vote for other members of their team. So even if you believe it's been an issue in the past, it won't be in the future. :)

<sarcasm on>
That's cool. It will make it easier to influence the team results then. Just vote all the good photos in the challenges low and you know for sure you're not impacting your fellow team members.
<sarcasm off>

Well that would make more people vote on all the entries instead of just 20%. :P

No, NO! Cherry pick!!! Just get the good ones, from the thumbs. :P
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