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04/23/2007 09:39:28 AM · #51
Originally posted by GuGi:

Originally posted by fredahenry:

i don't mind about the job by sc but it's definitely affecting my uploading photos in other website which are outside dpc.

so i guess i have to warn anyone who knows my work in other websites
"Don't vote for me if u see my photo in dpc challenge!" or i will just stop uploading any of my entries for dpc's on any outside websites.

So then I could get rid from any friends or people who recognise my works.


Good work SC! Would it be possible to add to the "rules" that when dpc'ers have a shot in a challenge they should refrain from uploading their shots to flickr or any other photosites or their personal blogs. Most of us visit other photosites and seeing shots that we either already have voted on (in an ongoing challenge) or see later while voting feels a bit wrong.


I heartily object to this proposal. I DO post my photos in my blog, Flickr, Myspace, whathaveyou, and it makes absolutely NO difference in my score - and I experimented with withholding images awhile back to know this for certain. I make sure that people in both places understand that I will turn them in MYSELF if I find out they're voting me up. And now the site has put some new algorithms in place to catch such things anyway, so what's the point?
04/23/2007 09:52:41 AM · #52
i would just like to point something out that i've been thinking about while discovering and researching this situation.

if you are specifically voting up a particular user's images, it's easy to justify your actions by telling yourself that you're doing it to help the person "feel good." while you may have the best intentions in mind, you really should consider the impact you're having. not only are you giving a NEGLIGIBLE score bump (math whizzes around here have proven time and time again how little impact a single vote has on a score), but you're really being unfair to the other entrants in that particular challenge.

personally, i think that leaving a positive comment on a particular image results in a much more substantial pick-me-up than a single vote can do. taking the time to truly examine an image and provide feedback or encouragement or support is a much more effective means of putting a smile on the photographer's face. clicking a "10" is so easy and the results are really so meaningless.

it's the difference between a handwritten note and a mass-produced, generic greeting. putting some substance in your message is way more fruitful and meaningful.

in my four (jesus...almost five) years at DPC, i have seen a brazillion (that was for you, mk) threads where people are practically begging for comments on their images. i've seen relatively few where people complain about the low number of votes they're getting. it's obvious to mean that a well though-out note is truly the way to pump someone up.

my $.02
04/23/2007 10:14:21 AM · #53
Originally posted by ericwoo:

I think that this request is silly. Do we need to be watched over and checked up on to make sure we all do the right thing? I am a person of integrity, and adding a silly rule like that would assume that most of us are not. If you see an image, either vote on it according to your voting parameters, or skip it if you cannot. That seems much more simple.

This isn't about those of us who not only do not cheat, but that it wouldn't occur to us because our integrity would always tell us that the increase in score would be hollow.

And as SC pointed out, at less than 0.5%, this isn't a rampant trend and basically doesn't affect the membership at large.

Personally, I think it's a damn shame that anyone who would do this would and be able to live with it.......it's so meaningless to do so.
04/23/2007 10:18:13 AM · #54
Originally posted by muckpond:

it's the difference between a handwritten note and a mass-produced, generic greeting. putting some substance in your message is way more fruitful and meaningful.

in my four (jesus...almost five) years at DPC, i have seen a brazillion (that was for you, mk) threads where people are practically begging for comments on their images. i've seen relatively few where people complain about the low number of votes they're getting. it's obvious to mean that a well though-out note is truly the way to pump someone up.

What he said.......8>)

BTW, I believe that Brazillion is someone from South America.....don't you mean bazillion?

Message edited by author 2007-04-23 10:19:39.
04/23/2007 10:54:24 AM · #55
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by muckpond:

it's the difference between a handwritten note and a mass-produced, generic greeting. putting some substance in your message is way more fruitful and meaningful.

in my four (jesus...almost five) years at DPC, i have seen a brazillion (that was for you, mk) threads where people are practically begging for comments on their images. i've seen relatively few where people complain about the low number of votes they're getting. it's obvious to mean that a well though-out note is truly the way to pump someone up.

What he said.......8>)

BTW, I believe that Brazillion is someone from South America.....don't you mean bazillion?


No, a Brazillion is something women get done below the belt before bikini season...
04/23/2007 11:10:50 AM · #56
<off topic>
Donald Rumsfeld is giving the president his daily briefing. He concludes by saying: "Yesterday, 3 Brazilian soldiers were killed."

"OH NO!" the President exclaims. "That's terrible!"

His staff sits stunned at this display of emotion, nervously watching as the President sits, head in hands.

Finally, the President looks up and asks, "How many is a brazillion?
</off topic>

DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A POLITICAL RANT THREAD PLEASE. :)
04/23/2007 11:13:03 AM · #57
Originally posted by muckpond:

<off topic>
Donald Rumsfeld is giving the president his daily briefing. He concludes by saying: "Yesterday, 3 Brazilian soldiers were killed."

"OH NO!" the President exclaims. "That's terrible!"

His staff sits stunned at this display of emotion, nervously watching as the President sits, head in hands.

Finally, the President looks up and asks, "How many is a brazillion?
</off topic>

DO NOT TURN THIS INTO A POLITICAL RANT THREAD PLEASE. :)


LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
04/23/2007 11:29:08 AM · #58
Originally posted by Strikeslip:

Originally posted by karmat:

....establishing duplicate accounts to ... have a "mask" to hide behind to be impolite and belligerent in the forums....

I wasn't aware I needed to create a second account to be belligerent in the forums.
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/35357/thumb/213791.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/35357/thumb/213791.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


You are brilliant. Thank you for the laugh.
04/23/2007 11:29:44 AM · #59
DPCs fixation and parnoia over cheating far, far outweighs the effects of any actual cheating that occurs.

Its sad we go to such great lengths to prevent it. Its like using a hand grenade to kill a fly.
04/23/2007 12:28:30 PM · #60
Originally posted by stdavidson:

Its sad we go to such great lengths to prevent it. Its like using a hand grenade to kill a fly.


A few week's suspension on a handful of people isn't much of a hand grenade, but hopefully the message it sends will mean less to prevent in the future.
04/23/2007 12:36:13 PM · #61
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Its sad we go to such great lengths to prevent it. Its like using a hand grenade to kill a fly.


A few week's suspension on a handful of people isn't much of a hand grenade, but hopefully the message it sends will mean less to prevent in the future.

The "hand grenade" isn't the punishment given out. The "hand grenade" is setting up complex systems to monitor and catch perps when the amount of actual cheating is minimal.
04/23/2007 12:36:30 PM · #62
It seems I am one of the guilty ones, as I just received a month ban on voting, so first comes a confession.
When I was introduced to DPC, by a friend, yes without really thinking about what it was all about, I gave my friend a 10, yes and again on the next challenge, mind I really liked the second one, and would have given a 10 any way, but then we discussed what we had done, and both decided it was not the right way to carry on, and we stopped showing each other our shots until after voting had finished, we do go out taking photos together sometimes, so sometimes have a good idea, when we are voting, so there could be some sub conscious bumping, but nothing intentional, I have voted in 40 challenges now, the lowest vote I have given my friend is 2, in the color portrait challenge, that in itself should support what I am saying.
In the short time I have been on this site, I find I can recognize some work, and put a name to it almost as soon as I see it, itís because there is something about there work I like, or donít like, should I not vote on these, I no my friends work, and like it, so itís right, in my opinion to vote how I see fit, it makes me feel I should not vote in the future.
One other thing while Iím here, would some of this effort be better doing something about the 1 voters, there are very few shots on here that deserve a 1 vote, yet 1s find there way onto a very high proportion of shots, even ribbon winners, and still no comment is given, or very rarely.

04/23/2007 12:46:38 PM · #63
Uh-oh... Setzler has two cents :)

The nature of DPChallenge promotes this type of behavior. It's a sad but true fact of online competitions. It's also not abnormal. The objective here is to win. Looking for extra advantages is natural.

There are several modifications to the site that would minimize any impact created by swing voting practices. These minor changes would not require much effort to implement either. A possible solution to the issue:

1. Increase the minimum required voting from 20% to something much higher, such as 50%. Putting more votes in the system would naturally balance a few swing votes.

2. Do not allow voters to view thumbnails before voting on a photo. This would eliminate selective voting and also place more votes in the system when a voter chooses to vote selectively.


04/23/2007 12:53:18 PM · #64
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

... 2. Do not allow voters to view thumbnails before voting on a photo. This would eliminate selective voting and also place more votes in the system when a voter chooses to vote selectively.

John, I understand where you're coming from with this and it's popped up as a subject in the forums now and then. If this approach was considered I hope that a viable alternative is put in place for those that like to comment only during the challenge period. Many times I'll use the comment icon (in the thumbnail view) to hand out some comments in a challenge I'm not voting on. Without the thumbs, I'd most likely pass on doing this.

Just an observation. :)

edit for a typo.

Message edited by author 2007-04-23 12:53:54.
04/23/2007 12:53:31 PM · #65
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

1. Increase the minimum required voting from 20% to something much higher, such as 50%. Putting more votes in the system would naturally balance a few swing votes.

2. Do not allow voters to view thumbnails before voting on a photo. This would eliminate selective voting and also place more votes in the system when a voter chooses to vote selectively.


Regardless of the current thread topic... I like the above two ideas for many reasons. Two thumbs up from me.
04/23/2007 12:54:08 PM · #66
Has anything else been done other than the warnings being posted out... I mean no change in votes or anything right..
04/23/2007 12:54:32 PM · #67
Originally posted by jmsetzler:



1. Increase the minimum required voting from 20% to something much higher, such as 50%. Putting more votes in the system would naturally balance a few swing votes.

2. Do not allow voters to view thumbnails before voting on a photo. This would eliminate selective voting and also place more votes in the system when a voter chooses to vote selectively.


I am not really following the thread at all, but saw this. These two suggestions are bold and interesting. And I am completely in favor of them. I don't know how it could affect the subtleties of DPC, but I guarantee it would positively affect the viewership and attention paid to more images.

I say "Aye".
04/23/2007 12:54:33 PM · #68
Not being able to see the thumbnail page while voting I think may help distribute the votes better even if the 20% minimum isn't raised.
04/23/2007 12:56:18 PM · #69
Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:

Has anything else been done other than the warnings being posted out... I mean no change in votes or anything right..


At this point, nothing will be removed, disqualified or recalculated so no changes to past results.
04/23/2007 12:59:40 PM · #70
OK. We have different opinions. This means that it is absolutely ok to publish a shot on another photosite, similar to dpc, and make a point of telling your peers on said site that this shot is in the XXX-challenge on dpc, and knowing that your peers are on that site too. Sorry, does not sound fair to me.
I wait till voting is over before I post on my blog or on flickr. After all, it is only a matter of a week or so.
04/23/2007 01:00:40 PM · #71
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by stdavidson:

Its sad we go to such great lengths to prevent it. Its like using a hand grenade to kill a fly.


A few week's suspension on a handful of people isn't much of a hand grenade, but hopefully the message it sends will mean less to prevent in the future.


1 Day of suspension is an eternity. I cant for the life of me remember what websites i hung out on before DPC and DPReview......
04/23/2007 01:00:59 PM · #72
Originally posted by jmsetzler:



1. Increase the minimum required voting from 20% to something much higher, such as 50%. Putting more votes in the system would naturally balance a few swing votes.

2. Do not allow voters to view thumbnails before voting on a photo. This would eliminate selective voting and also place more votes in the system when a voter chooses to vote selectively.


Excellent suggestions. 50 is kinda high especially on a Free Study with 600 entries, but he is right, it would help balance it out more.

And the no thumbnails, great suggestion..
04/23/2007 01:04:39 PM · #73
Originally posted by mk:

Originally posted by UrfaTheGreat:

Has anything else been done other than the warnings being posted out... I mean no change in votes or anything right..


At this point, nothing will be removed, disqualified or recalculated so no changes to past results.


Thanks for the quick reply...

At least this new mechanism will SHUT UP those people who persist that the whole of DPC works on the friends votes basis...
04/23/2007 01:04:54 PM · #74
Originally posted by aerogurl:

Originally posted by jmsetzler:



1. Increase the minimum required voting from 20% to something much higher, such as 50%. Putting more votes in the system would naturally balance a few swing votes.

2. Do not allow voters to view thumbnails before voting on a photo. This would eliminate selective voting and also place more votes in the system when a voter chooses to vote selectively.


Excellent suggestions. 50 is kinda high especially on a Free Study with 600 entries, but he is right, it would help balance it out more.

And the no thumbnails, great suggestion..


Not to be the ball buster that i am, buts its been suggested in many threads by many people todo both of the same things. And it has never changed.
04/23/2007 01:31:55 PM · #75
It's sad to know people are cheating, but its great to know that it is being handled. I have not posted as much lately because I was not happy with the results of some of the challenges, but will start again in light of the crackdown Thank you DP for keeping up with this and doing something about it.
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