Expert editing? - DPChallenge Forums

04/11/2007 09:01:48 AM · #26

Originally posted by MattO:

Why the sudden rush of Expert editing? We currently have 3 challenges with Expert editing and one with minimal editing. So you either have photoshop out the ying yang, or no editing at all. Uggg. anyone else wishing for Basic and advanced besides me?

Why do you have to PS it "out the ying yang" to enter? Nobody said you had to do that and frankly if you do, you will most likely score low anyway.

04/11/2007 09:03:44 AM · #27

Originally posted by ShutterPug:

it's really starting to look like DPC is falling towards the Digital Processing side and less about photography. A real shame as I too think that offering only Expert or Minimal editing like this at one time is crap. If it continues I sure won't be renewing my membership here.

Gimme a break! We have had very FEW expert editing challenges. If you haven't noticed there is also a "Trial" in the editing rule title.

Time for the whining to stop.

ralph

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

04/11/2007 09:06:03 AM · #28

Originally posted by tooohip:

Time for the whining to stop.

or pass out the cheese ;)

noraneko

Canon EOS-7D

04/11/2007 09:10:35 AM · #29

I *hate* the expert editing challenges, but only because they reveal how truly sucky I am with PS. (I actually really do enjoy viewing the results of those who are PS gurus.)

On the other hand, I LOVE the minimal editing challenges, since I prefer in-camera settings to post process (I still use film sometimes - gotta keep the skills honed). If the weather clears up, really looking forward to shooting for insects.

MattO

Nikon D4

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

04/11/2007 09:26:09 AM · #30

Originally posted by tooohip:

Originally posted by MattO:
Why the sudden rush of Expert editing? We currently have 3 challenges with Expert editing and one with minimal editing. So you either have photoshop out the ying yang, or no editing at all. Uggg. anyone else wishing for Basic and advanced besides me?

Why do you have to PS it "out the ying yang" to enter? Nobody said you had to do that and frankly if you do, you will most likely score low anyway.

Take a look at the "changed" results. Look what it took to get a final score above 6 which is most likely everyones goal here besides a ribbon. Very few "normal" shots even have a chance to do it. Sure I can enter a basic or advanced edited shot, but 99% chance it wont have a snowballs chance of scoring anywhere near what it could against shots edited like it.

MattO

idnic

Canon EOS-60D

Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM

04/11/2007 09:29:46 AM · #31

Originally posted by MattO:

Sorry, but I took 2nd place in that challenge with a shot that is almost Basic legal. A good image is a good image no matter the challenge or challenge rules.

Edit to add - Shannon's shot (1st place) is also practically Basic legal (except for the viginette).

Message edited by author 2007-04-11 09:32:12.

ace flyman

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

04/11/2007 09:36:42 AM · #32

Yep, And like any business it's supported by the customers who use the services. As a paying customer I'm not to happy. Going to the couch.

Originally posted by idnic:

OMG STOP BITCHING! This is Langdon & Drew's site. They can do as they wish.

diablo2097

Apple iPhone 5s

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II

04/11/2007 09:40:31 AM · #33

I think cindi's point here is the best one. that was an expert editing challenge... yet the two winner's clearly did not take "full advantage" of expert editing, and barely touched on advanced editing. Proving that a good photo, however little editing, will still shine.

People that complain that their shots don't do well because they do 0 post processing, leaving them with dull images shouldn't complain. Either learn how to do it properly in camera, or learn to post process. It's the same as the darkroom for film, and is an essential step to the photographer.

Average photo + good solid post processing obviously has an edge over an average image. Either learn to get a perfect image straight from the camera, or learn to post process... the only thing that matters in photography as art is the end product.

Message edited by author 2007-04-11 09:45:46.

MattO

Nikon D4

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

04/11/2007 09:41:51 AM · #34

Originally posted by idnic:

Originally posted by MattO:
Take a look at the "changed" results. Look what it took to get a final score above 6 which is most likely everyones goal here besides a ribbon. Very few "normal" shots even have a chance to do it. Sure I can enter a basic or advanced edited shot, but 99% chance it wont have a snowballs chance of scoring anywhere near what it could against shots edited like it.

MattO

Sorry, but I took 2nd place in that challenge with a shot that is almost Basic legal. A good image is a good image no matter the challenge or challenge rules.

Edit to add - Shannon's shot (1st place) is also practically Basic legal (except for the viginette).

Hi Cindi,

Did you read my post? I went through the results, I saw yours, thats why 99% which is a bit high was the number I used, guess I should have said 90%. :-)

Almost all of the rest are multiple shot processed. And as you pointed out even Scalverts although he says its basically basic the vignette makes it not so. Although you two are not the "normal" photographer on this site. You two have more then your share of ribbons.

MattO

04/11/2007 09:46:30 AM · #35

Originally posted by MattO:

This is because this was a special speed challenge with very specific rules that catered towards more processing.

The current open challenges will score "less processed" images much higher.

EstimatedEyes

Fujifilm GFX 50R

Fujifilm GF 45mm f/2.8

04/11/2007 09:54:49 AM · #36

Originally posted by idnic:

OMG STOP BITCHING!

What she said. :>)

I am far from an expert photoshopper, but I'm looking forward to both sets of challenges. This is a learning site, after all, and I look at them as an opportunity to try to improve my post-processing skills a bit. Plus the minimal insects challenge gives me a chance to pull out the macro and play with it some more.

And remember, just because you CAN do something under the rules doesn't mean you SHOULD. I'm thinking the multiple exposures in the same week rule permitted by expert editing could come into play here ... I can see a lot of opportunities for stitched or triptych landscapes and hair styles.

albc28

Canon EOS-50D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

04/11/2007 10:20:43 AM · #37

Originally posted by idnic:

OMG STOP BITCHING! This is Langdon & Drew's site. They can do as they wish.

Agreed...it is Langdon and Drew's site and they can do what they want. And what they did is open the forum section so that people can voice their "opinions" to help the make the site better and obtain more paying members. At no point has anyone said Drew & Langdon suck or even that the site sucks....they basically said what they prefer to see in the challenges that they enter (and/or pay for). Telling people to stop voicing their opinions (or bitching) just prevents communication on the site. That fact that people voice their opinions and comment on photos (and most people encourage them to do so) is what makes this site better than most others.

jeffzoet

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

04/11/2007 10:24:31 AM · #38

I am very much in favor of incorporating the Expert Editing into the daily challenges. I stopped submitting to this this site a while ago because I'm trying to focus more on heavily-edited photos.

Since that is against everything the site stood for, I simply quit using it. But now I've check back in to see that I might be able to submit the types of photos that I like to do, and it gets me excited to join this site again. Hopefully they are here to stay... in moderation.

Here are some photos I have taken over the last year that I would have like to have submitted to challenges, but wasn't allowed to:

//www.jeffzoet.com/myspace/2007/Liz_1556.jpg
//www.jeffzoet.com/myspace/2007/Michelle_1806.jpg
//www.jeffzoet.com/myspace/2006/Lindsay_7301.jpg
//www.jeffzoet.com/myspace/2006/Lindsay_7305.jpg
//www.jeffzoet.com/myspace/2006/Ramina_6840.jpg
//www.jeffzoet.com/myspace/2006/Lyndsay_4038-vi.jpg
//www.jeffzoet.com/myspace/2006/Infatuation-vi.jpg
//www.jeffzoet.com/myspace/2006/Lindsay_7265.jpg

Message edited by Manic - please keep images under 30kb and 500px or post links or thumbs instead.

De Sousa

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

04/11/2007 11:32:34 AM · #39

A great photo always will be a great photo, no matter the technique used. We should accept Expert Editing as a tool to improve our work and let the creativity to be expressed without limitations.

IMHO, photography is about reality, and any photographic work missing this characteristic will be loosing the power to seduce the audience. The key is to use powerful tools keeping feet on the ground.

Expert edition will not save a bad photographer from doing a bad job. So, you shouldn't be afraid of Expert Editing, you will not lose any challenges against Expert Editing. You will lose challenges against good photographs and good photographers.

I'm not a Photoshop guru, but I hope to learn more about this powerful tool and use it in my work.

I hope Expert Editing is here to stay.

Message edited by author 2007-04-11 12:37:01.

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

04/11/2007 11:40:52 AM · #40

I am excited about this challenge! It is going to be great. I would love to use HDR on a landscape and the one I have in mind will require the removal of a large tree. Both are legal in expert and not in advanced. The final image, if done correctly, will look like it is basic legal. I'm not going to be inserting flying, pink unicorns or a massive moon...

Strikeslip

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS

04/11/2007 12:01:36 PM · #41

It must be sad to enjoy only one thing, hate anything that is different, and try to force your hate on others.

loriprophoto

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM

04/11/2007 12:12:12 PM · #42

Please don't get me wrong, I dont Hate the expert and minimal challenges, its just that those are our only choices this week and we had some last week as well. I havent found the subjects to be very inspiring the past couple of months and am getting itchy fingers, I want to enter some challenges, my last few have been disasters and scored my lowest two scores ever, that is what happens when I just enter for the sake of entering LOL.

EducatedSavage

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II

04/11/2007 12:20:14 PM · #43

I, for one, am really looking forward to this week's challenge! I haven't gotten to explore the expert editing rules, since they've all be member challenges so far. I've actually crossed over to photography from the evil and sinful hobby of digital editing/painting/processing and haven't even fully utilized the possibilities of basic, yet. This will be a chance for me to stretch myself and see what I can do without having to be too worried about breaking a rule - especially since I use GIMP and all the rules are in Photoshop language.

I dunno, maybe I'm just over-willing to give anything a shot at least once.

MattO

Nikon D4

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II

04/11/2007 12:56:37 PM · #44

Originally posted by Strikeslip:

It must be sad to enjoy only one thing, hate anything that is different, and try to force your hate on others.

I am not sure how my statement represents enjoying only one thing and hate anything thats different. I'm expressing my thoughts on having ALL of the current challenges under the expert of mininal editing. I have no qualms with having them as long as we have an option as well.

MattO

DrAchoo

Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

04/11/2007 01:03:31 PM · #45

I can understand what you are saying Matt. Just look at it like it will be over in a week. I doubt this is going to become the norm. There's already been hints on other threads that the expert rule set isn't going as wanted and will get some revision to rein it in.

swankFoto

Fujifilm X-E1

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

04/11/2007 01:13:09 PM · #46

Booooo on only expert editing.
How about a week of minimal only to match?

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

04/11/2007 01:18:45 PM · #47

In order to have a "trial" of the new rule sets we need to try them out. If we only do one test challenge every two months, the trial period will last forever.

I think the idea of this recent increase in the number of such challenges is to wrap up the trial period -- this week giving registered users an opportunity to try it out to -- and then decide what, if any, changes need to be made before the rule sets are considered finalized.

In the meantime, those with concerns about Expert Editing "going too far" can help by leading by example, and submitting images which take advantage of the rules to enhance their "photographs" without creating the dreaded "digital art," as DrAchoo mentioned previously.

04/11/2007 01:20:04 PM · #48

Originally posted by rswank:

Booooo on only expert editing.
How about a week of minimal only to match?

Wouldn't bother me one bit.

Artifacts