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Showing posts 26 - 50 of 68, (reverse)
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 03/04/2007 11:33:06 AM · #26
Originally posted by ralph:
hmmm.. leeches & trepanation
could be fun ..


I don't think leeches are that "alternative" anymore. My daughter is an RN at Mayo Clinic, and uses them frequently. Now trepanation....I don't know about that. Wouldn't want to be the subject of THAT photo.
 03/04/2007 11:35:31 AM · #27
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by Brielle:

I have to wonder at that myself. As a practitioner, I would never advise a client NOT to seek conventional medicinal help. The role of a holistic practitioner is to support that of doctors and to work in conjunction with other treatments. I am not hokie enough to say that I can cure anything just with Reiki or Reflexology, but I can certainly help people to feel better and healthier.


I will say Brielle that you have hit the strength of alternative medicine. The benefit comes from basically spending time with the patient; "hand holding" if you will. Putting patients in a better frame of mind is very likely to help them with their problems. It is certainly not going to cure cancer or asthma, but it can help with aches and pains and the various minor ailments we tend to just suffer with.


To sum up non-traditional medical wisdom with the term "hand holding" illustrates perfectly one of the many problems in traditional medicine namely the assumption of superiority... don't get me wrong, I respect healers, those people who are truly dedicated to helping others, where ever I find them in either traditional medicine or non-traditional medicine.
03/04/2007 11:36:35 AM · #28
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by maxaz1:
Not that long ago, chiropractors were regarded as "quacks", and now most insurance companies cover their treatments.


I'll caution you that insurance companies don't really care if a treatment works or not. They care that a treatment modality costs them less money and gives them the impression of offering "value" for their premiums.


Oh,I agree completely. I don't trust my insurance company - clearly $$$ is the bottom line (hence their wealth), not my well-being. And actually, I, personally, don't generally go to chiropractors, although many do and find relief.
 03/04/2007 11:40:42 AM · #29
Another thing I find interesting is what we view as "traditional". Most (albeit not all) natural healing practices have been around for hundreds and even thousands of years. (There ceratinly has been a resurgence though in the last few years.) What we refer to now as Western medecine, not nearly as long in contrast.
 03/04/2007 12:05:01 PM · #30
Allopathic medicine can cause as many problems as they claim to cure. In fact even cause many deaths. It is far from being safe but it certainly has its place at certain times, as does the holistic kind.

Problem I see with modern medicine is that it seldom seeks cause and would rather treat symptoms. This is detrimental to the patient in the long run.
 03/04/2007 12:06:15 PM · #31
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Problem I see with modern medicine is that it seldom seeks cause and would rather treat symptoms. This is detrimental to the patient in the long run.


Precisely. :o)
 03/04/2007 12:36:49 PM · #32
My most hated phrase to hear from my doctor:
"Well, considering your age...."
That usually means, it ain't gonna get fixed!
 03/04/2007 12:50:58 PM · #33
Originally posted by RulerZigzag:
Originally posted by jan_vdw:
As a former paramedic, I'll stick to the red challenge.


Im a former MEDIC and alternative medicine is reason why. Growing fast. Healthier by 100 times also.


Fair enough, though here in Africa, alternative medicine often involve butchering animals AND PEOPLE to use as alternative medicine. We have many legitimate "Traditional Healers" though there are those that can only be labeled as witchdoctors who kill people and use eyes, ears, tongues and genitals in their potions or "muti". Oh, they also advise HIV positive men that having sex with a virgin will cure you from HIV/Aids. Which leads to BABIES being raped.

I'm sorry to paint such a grim image here. I know the challenge is not meant in any way close to what I am describing here. And perhaps I should not have mentioned this, just a sad reality.
 03/04/2007 12:54:38 PM · #34
There's a really low turn out on this one so far
 03/04/2007 12:58:15 PM · #35
Originally posted by jan_vdw:
Originally posted by RulerZigzag:
Originally posted by jan_vdw:
As a former paramedic, I'll stick to the red challenge.


Im a former MEDIC and alternative medicine is reason why. Growing fast. Healthier by 100 times also.


Fair enough, though here in Africa, alternative medicine often involve butchering animals AND PEOPLE to use as alternative medicine. We have many legitimate "Traditional Healers" though there are those that can only be labeled as witchdoctors who kill people and use eyes, ears, tongues and genitals in their potions or "muti". Oh, they also advise HIV positive men that having sex with a virgin will cure you from HIV/Aids. Which leads to BABIES being raped.

I'm sorry to paint such a grim image here. I know the challenge is not meant in any way close to what I am describing here. And perhaps I should not have mentioned this, just a sad reality.


I'm sorry but I don't even consider that alternative medicine in the way it's being refered to here. Those are extreme stories and I wouldn't equate witchdoctors with acupuncturist and massage therapists.

As for a personal note... my boyfriend began getting huge back cramps to the point of being unable to walk or move. He is onl 21 and we were at summer camp where the doctors could really only offer him muscle relaxers and tylenols without taking him elsewhere. After 2 days things were just getting worse and the muscle relaxers were not doing anything. Still huge back cramping. Just so happened the doc had his acupunture kit and it worked beautifully. He felt worlds better and the problem didn't come back.

Just because medicine isn't backed by huge companies out to make money doesn't mean it's not legit. It's so frustrating how some people take such offense to the subject of alternative medicine.
 03/04/2007 12:59:54 PM · #36
Another note... someone can check me on this because I'm not 100% sure but I beleive that for a new medicine to be considered viable by the FDA it only has to be AS effective as a placeabo.

To me that's a scary thought. That people could be putting some harmful stuff into their bodies and it does not much more good than a sugar pill.
 03/04/2007 01:10:01 PM · #37
Hey Monica, I did not intend to try and compare. Kinda regretted posting that. Just that I saw one too many person use all kinds of junk as "medicine" on the advise of a healer.

I've been for acupuncture, it really helped me a lot. No offense meant to anyone, please.

I actually just had a great idea for a picture for this challenge. How's that for irony?

Jan
 03/04/2007 01:28:37 PM · #38
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Another note... someone can check me on this because I'm not 100% sure but I beleive that for a new medicine to be considered viable by the FDA it only has to be AS effective as a placeabo.

To me that's a scary thought. That people could be putting some harmful stuff into their bodies and it does not much more good than a sugar pill.


Yep...and one could easily site thousands of medical malpractice suits - many of which led to death.

Message edited by author 2007-03-04 13:28:47.
 03/04/2007 01:29:24 PM · #39
Quote from a friendly blog:

But, dammit, life's too short. Somewhere, you've got to draw a line labelled This Is Just Stupid, and consign subjects that're obviously far over it to the Things I'll Investigate Some Time In The 25th Century category. Fan Death, Icelandic Elves, the belief that people can subsist on sunlight, Wooden volume knobs for $485, and, coming to our subject, gemstones, crystals and all are all thus suitable subjects for amusement and ridicule, until such time as their proponents actually and provably put up to scientific scrutiny, or shut up.

Oh, and don't bother trying to change my mind. I didn't try changing yours. This is just my opinion.

Harry

03/04/2007 01:31:40 PM · #40
Originally posted by hsolakidis:

Oh, and don't bother trying to change my mind. I didn't try changing yours. This is just my opinion.

Harry


Not trying to chang anyone's mind. :o) Just trying to dispell some myths and maybe help broaden some perspectives. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I am the last to say otherwise.
 03/04/2007 01:39:20 PM · #41
Brielle, I'm sorry if it seemed that this post was directed to you. I'll admit not having read the whole thread anyway. I respect your opinion and I 'd never attack it.

After all, we 're TeamD50 teammates... :-)

Harry
 03/04/2007 01:44:39 PM · #42
Originally posted by hsolakidis:
Brielle, I'm sorry if it seemed that this post was directed to you. I'll admit not having read the whole thread anyway. I respect your opinion and I 'd never attack it.

After all, we 're TeamD50 teammates... :-)

Harry


WOOT! Go team! ;o) (I feel like I should have some pompoms or something. :oP)

Message edited by author 2007-03-04 13:44:56.
 03/04/2007 01:50:34 PM · #43
Originally posted by hsolakidis:
Quote from a friendly blog:

But, dammit, life's too short. Somewhere, you've got to draw a line labelled This Is Just Stupid, and consign subjects that're obviously far over it to the Things I'll Investigate Some Time In The 25th Century category. Fan Death, Icelandic Elves, the belief that people can subsist on sunlight, Wooden volume knobs for $485, and, coming to our subject, gemstones, crystals and all are all thus suitable subjects for amusement and ridicule, until such time as their proponents actually and provably put up to scientific scrutiny, or shut up.

Oh, and don't bother trying to change my mind. I didn't try changing yours. This is just my opinion.

Harry


And the links you've included above have exactly WHAT to do with alternative medicine?
 03/04/2007 01:52:14 PM · #44
It's just claims people make without scientific proof. EXACTLY like some alternative medicine practices.

Happy now?
 03/04/2007 02:02:51 PM · #45
Originally posted by Brielle:
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I am the last to say otherwise.


I'm never convinced by this - nor the suggestion that alternative "medicine" should be tolerated. jan_vdw brought up some of the more extreme alternative therapies - the fact that someone believes in them does not justify them - they are clearly absurd and should not be tolerated. Numerology, reflexology etc are equally absurd. If they work, then their efficacy would be demonstrable - but for some reason we are asked to tolerate them. The fact that no-one has been able to show that these things work should be a big clue as to their validity. The fact that traditional teaching of these arts bears no relationship to known biology, should be a big clue that it is made up nonsense.

What can be demonstrated is the power of placebo (it is ironic that escapetooz is alarmed by the idea that drugs have to be only a little more effective than a sugar pill, when all alternative medicines have been shown to be less, or no more effective). What can be seen is the strength of desire for people to believe that they can be cured when sometimes they cannot (though they can be relieved of cash in the process).

I find it amazing that people think that western medicine only cures symptoms, not causes. I can think of fairly little medical procedure that is purely palliative.

I do agree that human companionship is an important but sometimes lacking aspect of western medical practice (usually for financial reasons).
 03/04/2007 02:37:36 PM · #46
Originally posted by escapetooz:
Another note... someone can check me on this because I'm not 100% sure but I beleive that for a new medicine to be considered viable by the FDA it only has to be AS effective as a placeabo.

To me that's a scary thought. That people could be putting some harmful stuff into their bodies and it does not much more good than a sugar pill.


This is completely untrue.
 03/04/2007 02:56:15 PM · #47
Originally posted by hsolakidis:
It's just claims people make without scientific proof. EXACTLY like some alternative medicine practices.

Happy now?


I don't think that the claims that many alternative practitioners make are as far flung as the links you've posted, and to make a comparison seems to me to intentionally try to disparage alternative practitioners and their practices. While some alternative practices lack scientific inquiry not all do and some have been shown to help, as the examples above attest to. What specific far flung claims are you aware of that legitimate and certified alternative practioners are making?

03/04/2007 03:11:03 PM · #48
What do you mean by "shown to help"? I would imagine verifyable results. So far so good. I respect and accept those alternative therapies. Everything else, though, goes in the same basket, as far as I'm concerned. Yes, my examples may look far flung and crazy to you and me, but they are not for other people. Vice versa for other beliefs.

Crystals and gemstones are one example.

Harry
 03/04/2007 03:14:19 PM · #49
Wasn't all mainstream medicine considered "alternative" at some time?

(btw, I'm very much a follower of conventional medicine. About the limit of my ventures into alternate treatments were visits to a chiropractor on the advice of my doctor.)
 03/04/2007 03:15:20 PM · #50
Originally posted by Matthew:
- they are clearly absurd and should not be tolerated. Numerology, reflexology etc are equally absurd. If they work, then their efficacy would be demonstrable - but for some reason we are asked to tolerate them.


For one thing, numerology has absolutely nothing to do with natural health. Its a way of profiling someone's personality based on birth dates and times. For another, as a Reflexologist, I have never claimed to be able to magically rid someone of an ailment. However, it DOES improve circulation, it DOES relieve stress, and both of those do wonders for the human immune system. And yes, that has been proven. This works much like lymphatic massage, which is used widely by both doctors and nurses.

Message edited by author 2007-03-04 15:16:21.
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