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DPChallenge Forums >> Administrator Announcements >> In-Camera Multiple Exposures to be Disallowed
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 02/24/2007 12:33:45 PM · #51
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
Originally posted by levyj413:
EXCELLENT choice, SC! :)


Originally posted by TooCool:
I see this conversation degenerating into those who's cameras can do this being against the new rule and those that can't being for it...


This is what TooCool was talking about.


Excuse me? You assume too much. Your jumping to that conclusion is more in line with the conversation degrading. For the record, the DSLR I'm mostly likely to buy in the near future is the D200, which can do just what's being banned, and that hasn't changed because of this decision.

I think that nothing should be legal in-camera that's illegal out of the camera. Combining multiple exposures just happens to be one of the most obvious examples.

But as cameras allow more and more editing, they turn into small computers, and I think what's allowed should be one set, regardless of which computer is doing it.
 02/24/2007 12:33:48 PM · #52
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
Originally posted by levyj413:
EXCELLENT choice, SC! :)


Originally posted by TooCool:
I see this conversation degenerating into those who's cameras can do this being against the new rule and those that can't being for it...


This is what TooCool was talking about.


I think there are PRECIOUS FEW people on this thread denegrating it.
 02/24/2007 12:34:15 PM · #53
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
Originally posted by levyj413:
EXCELLENT choice, SC! :)


This is what TooCool was talking about.


You assume a lot... Can you tell me why I think this ban is a good one?
 02/24/2007 12:35:11 PM · #54
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Overlay has always been banned. Multiple exposure is now banned since the exif on a multiple exposure shot is indistinguishable from the exif on an overlay shot. There is nothing in the exif that identifies the image as using one or the other feature (info from a Nikon user).


According to muckpound overlay was legal until now

Originally posted by muckpond:
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
Image Overlay is already against the rules is it not?


no, technically it's not currently illegal due to the "use any feature of your camera" clause. and it's been validated in the past.

going forward, however, it will not be allowed.
02/24/2007 12:35:23 PM · #55
Boo :(
 02/24/2007 12:36:38 PM · #56
While I rarely use the feature, I strongly disagree with this new rule. Multiple exposures are part of photography...period. This one is taking things a bit too far. I also disagree that the honest majority should be forced to suffer because of the few cheaters that pass by from time to time. I support the SC in 99.9% of your decisions, but you guys really dropped teh ball this time.
 02/24/2007 12:41:11 PM · #57
sorry.

we have to try to maintain integrity of the shots and images, and, for the time being, this was the only way we could find to do as such.
 02/24/2007 12:41:37 PM · #58
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Overlay has always been banned. Multiple exposure is now banned since the exif on a multiple exposure shot is indistinguishable from the exif on an overlay shot. There is nothing in the exif that identifies the image as using one or the other feature (info from a Nikon user).


According to muckpound overlay was legal until now

Originally posted by muckpond:
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
Image Overlay is already against the rules is it not?


no, technically it's not currently illegal due to the "use any feature of your camera" clause. and it's been validated in the past.

going forward, however, it will not be allowed.


Then, because the overlay is now being banned ME had to be banned for the reasons I stated earlier.
 02/24/2007 12:43:49 PM · #59
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Then, because the overlay is now being banned ME had to be banned for the reasons I stated earlier.


Now while it still goes agsint what im saying.... BEST EXPLANATION SO FAR

If it's Overlay thats the ain problem and ME cant be distinguished from it then yes its more reasonable.

No one has said this in a single sentence.
 02/24/2007 12:45:20 PM · #60
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Then, because the overlay is now being banned ME had to be banned for the reasons I stated earlier.


Now while it still goes agsint what im saying.... BEST EXPLANATION SO FAR

If it's Overlay thats the ain problem and ME cant be distinguished from it then yes its more reasonable.

No one has said this in a single sentence.


most of us could figure that out ourselves
 02/24/2007 12:46:06 PM · #61
Originally posted by ericwoo:
While I rarely use the feature, I strongly disagree with this new rule. Multiple exposures are part of photography...period. This one is taking things a bit too far. I also disagree that the honest majority should be forced to suffer because of the few cheaters that pass by from time to time. I support the SC in 99.9% of your decisions, but you guys really dropped teh ball this time.


totally agree ...

since only a few cameras can do this (for now) and since we'd assume the majority of people are honest, i think this is a bit of an overzealous decision.

i say that based on the fact that SC (despite the good job it does running this site) has now banned one of the oldest and most respected photographic techniques ...

like is said earlier. exif tampering is ridiculously easy. i understand that SC is worried about that ... but targeting a small portion of camera users is not going to fix anything.

locks only keep out honest people ... so i think SC should revoke this decision and let the honest people have the freedom we deserve.

(i guess rainmotorsports likes analogies, so this one is for him)

it's like saying we're gonna bug your phone, just in case you're a terrorist! ;)
 02/24/2007 12:46:22 PM · #62
Originally posted by Elvis_L:
Originally posted by RainMotorsports:
Originally posted by cpanaioti:
Then, because the overlay is now being banned ME had to be banned for the reasons I stated earlier.


Now while it still goes agsint what im saying.... BEST EXPLANATION SO FAR

If it's Overlay thats the ain problem and ME cant be distinguished from it then yes its more reasonable.

No one has said this in a single sentence.


most of us could figure that out ourselves


Well i claim RETARTED and i have paperwork to back it up. Im not kidding either.
 02/24/2007 12:48:32 PM · #63
i doubt it. i believe you said you were autistic in another thread. that is hardly "retarded" or developmentally disabled, as it is considered now.
 02/24/2007 12:49:23 PM · #64
OK so the detection of the uploaded image is the real issue here, not the multiple exposure itself. Its like the drugs thing in sport.

I assume that when the detection of this becomes available that the rule will be relaxed, and ME re-allowed.

Oh and bye the way - I don't have a ME capable camera and therefore don't have a particular axe to grind, except I don't like the restriction.
 02/24/2007 12:49:40 PM · #65
Originally posted by karmat:
i doubt it. i believe you said you were autistic in another thread. that is hardly "retarded" or developmentally disabled, as it is considered now.


could we discuss the multiple exposures and not the level of rainmotor's retardation???

LOL
 02/24/2007 12:50:39 PM · #66
Originally posted by karmat:
i doubt it. i believe you said you were autistic in another thread. that is hardly "retarded" or developmentally disabled, as it is considered now.


Agreed. MY sister is mentally handicaped and goes to school with Autistic kids and it is not the same.
 02/24/2007 12:52:45 PM · #67

i must be dense
when i look at the info from Image overlay pictures
it says " Image Overlay ON "
when i look at a Multiple Exposure
it says "Multiple Exposure X shots "

why disallow Multiple Exposure when it can be determined ?

02/24/2007 12:52:56 PM · #68
people keep talking about ME being a long standing tradition, but also many people would freeze film with say moon exposures for months before using the film to make second exposures on it. this is a long standing tradition that is not legal because of the challenges time frames. just because some thing has been done for a long time doesn't mean it jives with the idea of these challenges.
 02/24/2007 12:53:36 PM · #69
Originally posted by ralph:
i must be dense
when i look at the info from Image overlay pictures
it says " Image Overlay ON "
when i look at a Multiple Exposure
it says "Multiple Exposure X shots "

why disallow Multiple Exposure when it can be determined ?


Is this in the exif?
 02/24/2007 12:55:05 PM · #70
Originally posted by ralph:
i must be dense
when i look at the info from Image overlay pictures
it says " Image Overlay ON "
when i look at a Multiple Exposure
it says "Multiple Exposure X shots "

why disallow Multiple Exposure when it can be determined ?


i've only played with ME a little bit at the moment (since my D200 is still fairly new) ... but i don't think it lists the dates of the exposures.

if it did, there'd be no problem.

i'm not 100% on that though. i'm still working out this beast of a camera!! :)
 02/24/2007 12:55:27 PM · #71
Good.
 02/24/2007 01:00:39 PM · #72
Originally posted by super-dave:
...
i say that based on the fact that SC (despite the good job it does running this site) has now banned one of the oldest and most respected photographic techniques ...


They have not banned multiple exposures - they have banned the in camera function to make multiple exposures. People with d80/d200s are now just going to have to create multiple exposure images like everyone else on the site - using techniques that have been around since the beginning of photography.

02/24/2007 01:03:11 PM · #73
ok ... from the D200 manual:

Originally posted by image overlay:


The new image is recorded at current image quality, image size, and file name settings under a file name assigned by adding one to the largest file number in the current folder. White balance, sharpening, color space, color mode, and hue settings are copied from the photograph selected for Image 1, as are the date of recording, metering, shutter speed, aperture, exposure mode, exposure compensation, focal length, orientation, and other photo information.


Originally posted by multiple exposure:


The information listed in the playback photo information display (including date of recording and camera orientation) is for the first shot in the multiple exposure.


that would make it very, very difficult to use a ME shot to tamper with exif information.

since i believe that D200 exif does state whether either technique was used, that means ME should not be a problem ...

right?

edit: fixed quotes.

Message edited by author 2007-02-24 13:05:18.
 02/24/2007 01:05:50 PM · #74
Originally posted by Falc:
Originally posted by ralph:
i must be dense
when i look at the info from Image overlay pictures
it says " Image Overlay ON "
when i look at a Multiple Exposure
it says "Multiple Exposure X shots "

why disallow Multiple Exposure when it can be determined ?


Is this in the exif?

i have not looked at the binary files but it is in the image ..
Nikon viewer reports this information + it can tell the difference i presume the SC can ..


02/24/2007 01:06:38 PM · #75
Originally posted by super-dave:
...since i believe that D200 exif does state whether either technique was used, that means ME should not be a problem ...

right?

edit: fixed quotes.


Wrong. Without discussing the nitty-gritty details, which I cannot do, believe me when I say that there are problems that are not surmountable at this writing.

Message edited by author 2007-02-24 13:06:52.
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