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DPChallenge Forums >> Administrator Announcements >> Ensuring the Future of WPL
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Showing posts 76 - 100 of 124, (reverse)
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02/16/2007 11:28:53 AM · #76
Scott, I noticed that "digitalpins" was listed twice in Slot-1.
Did he clone himself again? I assume maybe one of the new name changes you asked about earlier may go into that place. I may be pointing out something you already know about.
02/16/2007 12:56:49 PM · #77
Can anyone help me FIND the current WPL site? None of my links are working.

R.
02/16/2007 12:59:26 PM · #78
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Can anyone help me FIND the current WPL site? None of my links are working.

R.


their might not be oen anymore? He took the forum DOWN but nto sure about the main page!
02/16/2007 01:03:22 PM · #79
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Can anyone help me FIND the current WPL site? None of my links are working.

R.


I believe this is the only one up right now. World Photo League
02/16/2007 01:18:32 PM · #80
Its bascilly an excel file viewed in IE's built in Excel viewer im not sure if it works in any other browser?
02/16/2007 01:27:51 PM · #81
Originally posted by jenesis:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Can anyone help me FIND the current WPL site? None of my links are working.
R.

I believe this is the only one up right now. World Photo League


Originally posted by RainMotorsports:

Its bascilly an excel file viewed in IE's built in Excel viewer im not sure if it works in any other browser?

It is not updated yet...
02/16/2007 01:58:18 PM · #82
I will have the WPL site updated tonight and it will be at www.worldphotoleague.com. I worked on it till 2:00 am last night and will be working on it most of the day today. I had to redo the formulas because it was not working correctly they way it was.

Thanks,
Scott
02/16/2007 02:29:14 PM · #83
Originally posted by karmat:

to whomever asked about the number of teams --

the short answer is, we don't know yet.

the long answer is, we don't know yet, we are discussing/planning/speculating/hashing the details out, still.

While you are discussing the details, I have a suggestion, if I may. Currently, for each participant, the results of each challenge stand isolated from each other. That is, there is no easy way to how a participant ranks over-all on the site. While there is an average score received calculated and displaced in each participants profile, it does not reflect that participants activity level. What I have in mind is a ladder-type ranking of individuals and teams (seperate ladders, naturally).

I admit I have not thought this through completely, but as a discussion starter I have been thinking along these lines.
- each participant (individual or team) is at a rung of the ladder and only one participant is at each rung.
- to move up a rung the participant must do better than the participant on the rung above them.
- to keep from moving down a rung the participant must do better than the participant on the rung below them.

This has the following benefits as I see them:
- The over-all ranking of the participants of the site is readily seen, with those at the top of the ladder being the most consistently active while maintaining a high level of quality.
- each participant is actively challenged to compete and do as well as possible by other participants of similar caliber (those immediately above and below on the ladder).
- much easier to spot the up and coming talent by watching those who are consistently climbing the ladder.

And finally, to answer those who are wondering what this proposal is doing in a thread about the WPL. This is not an attempt to change what the WPL is -- however, the number of teams allowed to participate is a tricky question and got me thinking. Leaving it open-ended would quickly become unmanagable, while restricting participation would end up excluding some that felt they should be allowed to participate. By taking the top teams from the ladder to participate in the WPL, every team is given the chance to 'try-out' while limiting the number of teams to a managable size. If a new team wants to participate in the WPL the next season, they would have to knock a current WPL team off the top of the ladder during the current season. (with 'current' and 'next' used relative to each other, and not necessarily the on-going WPL4).

As I said, I have not thought through the details enough to make this a formal proposal, and am certain the holes in it will be readily seen. But if there is interest I will be happy to work up a more complete proposal over the weekend.

David
02/17/2007 02:00:07 AM · #84
Cool! This is good. I'm glad DPC is doing this.
02/17/2007 02:20:41 AM · #85
The WPL4 has been updated. You can view the results of week one and the up coming challenges at WPL
02/17/2007 03:25:25 AM · #86
... a quick double question ...

What is the difference between World League and Global League and How long is a "season" ... as in when will the next season start ...
02/17/2007 03:40:19 AM · #87
Originally posted by Southern Gentleman:

The WPL4 has been updated. You can view the results of week one and the up coming challenges at WPL


Thanks Scott, for all the work you've done on this!
02/17/2007 03:53:43 AM · #88
Originally posted by Greetmir:

... a quick double question ...

What is the difference between World League and Global League and How long is a "season" ... as in when will the next season start ...

Kind of like MLB or NFL. Here is how it works.

The League is called the World Photography League (a.k.a WPL)
-There are two inter leagues
--World League and Global League
-Each inter league has two divisions
--Division A and Division B
-Each Division has six teams
-Each team has seven photographers

The top four team from each division move on to the playoffs which is bracketed, single elimination.

Regular season is five weeks and followed by four weeks of playoffs.

As far as next season goes, the start time is undetermined as of now. The WPL will be incorporated into DPChallenge.com and all the variables are being worked out as we speak.

Hope that helps.
Scott

Message edited by author 2007-02-17 03:55:40.
02/17/2007 03:55:20 AM · #89
OK got it ... thanks ... just like the NFL/AFL of old ...
02/17/2007 11:25:01 AM · #90
How does one earn MVP points???
02/17/2007 11:25:57 AM · #91
Originally posted by Greetmir:

OK got it ... thanks ... just like the NFL/AFL of old ...


Or the AFC/NFC of today ;)
02/17/2007 11:34:53 AM · #92
Originally posted by David.C:

As I said, I have not thought through the details enough to make this a formal proposal, and am certain the holes in it will be readily seen. But if there is interest I will be happy to work up a more complete proposal over the weekend.

David


David,

Organizing "ladders" and other competitive formats is something I have a lot of experience at, from my days running //www.eliters.org so I have a couple observations:

1. A true "ladder" will not work well for WPL, at least IMO. It's MUCH better-suited to individual competition than to team competition, for a lot of reasons.

2. The real issue is, "How can we open the WPL format up to unlimited numbers of teams without its becoming too cumbersome to work?" and I have a possible answer to that: it's called "Divisional Competition".

Basically what you do is set up a number of divisions consisting of (say) 8 teams per division. With 8-team divisions, each "season" consists of 7 matches. The team with the best won-lost record wins its division, with head-to-head scores serving as tiebreakers.

Divisions are ranked/named A, B, C, D, etc. "A" division is the top division, and the winner of that is the season champion of WPL. At the end of each season, the bottom 3 teams in each division move DOWN a division, and the top 3 teams in each division (except division A of course) move UP a division. The number 3 is arbitrary, it could be 2 or 4...

As new teams are formed, they enter play in the lowest available division, and work their way up (if they can) to compete in the highest division for the championship. As teams drop out of WPL, leaving vacancies, teams move up in linear order from the divisions below to fill empty slots.

Some sort of definition of acceptable substitution would have to be created, so that if a winning team in this season is losing one of its members, it can bring in a replacement member without losing its team identity. If teams consist of 8 members, then an acceptable "continuation number" to keep the "team" intact for the next season might be 5: if fewer than 5 return, it's a new team and it moves to the bottom of the heap.

We have had a form of divisional play in Eliters for years, and it works pretty well. Our standard form of play is tournaments (equivalent to DPC challenges), where head-to-head is not an issue, and divisional play was started to satisfy those who wanted head-to-head competition, just like WPL was in the DPC context. Eliters does not use a ladder: we defected from a very large league structure that was ladder-based because the ladders were too open to cheating and manipulation, since in order to move up the ladder you had to find players above you on the ladder who were willing to play you. That's not really a factor in your proposed team ladder for DPC, but basically I can't see an easyw ay to make a ladder work effectively within our challenge format.

Robt.

Addendum: Divisional Play can accommodate an unlimited number of divisions, thus an unlimited number of teams. Everyone gets to play. The rankings are self-organizing, pretty much, after the first season. The first season would have to start with teams being seeded into the divisions in some manner, perhaps based on previous WPL performance. New teams would be seeded into lower divisions based on their team scoring average of all members. That is to say, if we have enough new teams to create more than one new division in a given season, the one with the higher team average would be the higher-ranked of the new divisions.

Overview:

At the end of each "season" (there are no "playoffs") the top 3 teams in each division except "A" division move UP to the next-higher division, and the bottom 3 teams move DOWN to the next lower division, with the two middle teams (or the top 5 teams in "A" division) staying put for the next season. In this system, as long as your team finishes 3rd or better in its division in each season, it is guaranteed a shot at the top ranking sooner or later.

Message edited by author 2007-02-17 11:42:11.
02/17/2007 11:35:00 AM · #93
Great job Scott... This is great news and very appreciated.
02/17/2007 11:43:29 AM · #94
Regarding what Bear is saying, that is the way the Soccer leagues in Europe work** and I could see it being very successful for the WPL, since having it part of DPC would bound to see more teams being created. After a few seasons the teams will all sort themselves out so that each division will be fair and good competition with players on around your own level. Obviously getting promoted adds a new challenge since you'd likely be up against teams with higher scores.

I'm really enthusiastic about that idea. It also makes more sense and seems fairer to me than the current random groupings of teams.

[i]** Except the top 2 go up automatically, and the 3rd 4th / 5th 6th play in a semi-final and final playoff to decide the 3rd team to move up. For WPL though, playoffs would just slow things down, although it would give many teams a break which could be much needed?

Message edited by author 2007-02-17 11:45:22.
02/17/2007 11:49:32 AM · #95
Originally posted by Konador:

Regarding what Bear is saying, that is the way the Soccer leagues in Europe work** and I could see it being very successful for the WPL, since having it part of DPC would bound to see more teams being created. After a few seasons the teams will all sort themselves out so that each division will be fair and good competition with players on around your own level. Obviously getting promoted adds a new challenge since you'd likely be up against teams with higher scores.

I'm really enthusiastic about that idea. It also makes more sense and seems fairer to me than the current random groupings of teams.

[i]** Except the top 2 go up automatically, and the 3rd 4th / 5th 6th play in a semi-final and final playoff to decide the 3rd team to move up. For WPL though, playoffs would just slow things down, although it would give many teams a break which could be much needed?


Ben,

I've thought about that, but I don't care much for how the current WPL format takes so many teams out of competition for so long. I really don't think playoffs add anything to the mix as far as identifying the "best" teams is concerned. Playoffs are really a spectator-driven invention anyway, IMO. Anyhow, if you're gonna have season results based on full-season performance (W/L records) then base playoffs on head-to-head, sudden-death results, well I've just never liked that. So I am in favor of straight divisional play with instant transportability at season-end.

R.
02/17/2007 02:37:40 PM · #96
Also try to find a way to easily get rid of WPL sigs if you are intending to make this WPL thing even bigger.
Like a special upload in your preferences or something where you can put your card, just like your profile pic. Combine that with a box where I can indicate that I want to block all WPL cards.

At the moment I am blocking everything with Adblock, but as I work on up to 7 different computers, excluding the ones when I travel, I'd really like an option to block them all at once.

Message edited by author 2007-02-17 14:40:01.
02/17/2007 02:52:33 PM · #97
Robert,

Thanks. This was the main reason I had not gone to the trouble of a full proposal -- the chances were very good someone would have more expereince in these things than I. I do see your point about the team ladder, and your proposal makes a lot of sense. Like you, I don't see the point in play-offs. The only people interested in the WPL are (mainly) the players, so it doesn't make sense to force them to wait while the winners gloat. :)

The idea spawned from this discussion, but I would still like to see some form of individual competetion that places individuals against others of similar skill. Too many seem to just get lost in the challenges, or overwhelmed by the difference between themselves and the top ranks.

David
02/17/2007 03:04:05 PM · #98
Originally posted by David.C:

Robert,

I would still like to see some form of individual competetion that places individuals against others of similar skill. Too many seem to just get lost in the challenges, or overwhelmed by the difference between themselves and the top ranks.

David


THAT would be your "challenge-based ladder": all who wish to compete in it would first register as participants. Then any participant could "challenge" another participant for a specific challenge. The challenge, if accepted, would then go into the database for that specific challenge, and the ladder would be adjusted, after each challenge is finished, based on movement within the ladder. A player can only be involved in one challenge of another player for a given DPC Challenge.

The terminology is a little muddy here because we call our competitions "challenges". What I mean to say is, I could challenge you for any specific competition before it started, and would move up the ladder if I beat you. All challenges would be from a lower rank against a higher rank. Typically you move up the ladder half the distance of the challenge: that is to say, if #11 challenged #1 and beat him/her, that would move 11 to 5 on the ladder. #1 stays in position. #1 cannot lose his/her position unless s/he is beaten by #2. But if #3 challenges #1 and wins, then #3 becomes the new #2.

The problem with an approach like this, of course, is that it's possible to stay on top indefinitely by refusing every challenge. You get around that in game sites by making acceptance mandatory. That won't work for DPC simply because not everyone enters every challenge. Then there's the issue of dealing with multiple challenges; which one must be accepted. Typically, that's the one tendered by the highest-ranked challenger.

But it's all pretty unwieldy for something like what we have going. The programming would be a real hassle, I think.

Robt.
02/17/2007 04:24:46 PM · #99
Hi- as a relative newbie to this community, I'm wondering... what's a WPL? I saw a link on the front page asking if I want to be involved... I clicked on it and read many many posts and am none the wiser. Maybe a little introductory 411 for the curious?

Thanks
02/17/2007 04:31:12 PM · #100
Originally posted by donenright:

Hi- as a relative newbie to this community, I'm wondering... what's a WPL? I saw a link on the front page asking if I want to be involved... I clicked on it and read many many posts and am none the wiser. Maybe a little introductory 411 for the curious?

Thanks


From earlier in the thread...

Originally posted by yanko:



' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Southern Gentleman and ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' TomFoolery started the WPL which stands for World Photography League. It is a league made of teams with 7 members each. Each week teams play against each other based on the scores people get in the challenges. The top 4 scores of each team (1 per member) get averaged out to form the team "score" for the week. Last season it ran for 5 weeks plus playoffs. We are currently in season 4 which started with the Good/Bad/Personification challenges. These are the final results from the three seasons prior:

WPL1 Champion: Team Pentax
WPL2 Champion: Underexposed
WPL3 Champion: Outcasts

Does that help?
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