A few specific wedding questions (not pricing!)

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

02/15/2007 03:22:51 PM · #1

Hi all,

I've been asked to shoot a wedding in late April -- my first as the paid, official photographer. I am comfortable with almost every aspect of it, but I had some specific questions more along the business and delivery aspects. I searched and didn't find the answers, so any feedback is appreciated.

1. When do I collect my fee? I certainly wouldn't expect that to happen on the wedding day, so should I get it right when they contract with me for the shoot (which happened purely via email this time), or when I first meet with them to go over the details (which has also already happened), at the rehearsal, or after the wedding day? I'm not getting paid much (my first job + their low budget = my offer to do it for $300) so I don't think there's any need or expectation to split the payment.

2. When I provide the proofs in an album, should I watermark them as proofs so they're only usable as proofs, or do I provide "final-quality" 4x6's which they'll get to keep (which may cut back on the number of prints they order from me later)? My terms merely said that I'll provide an album of up to 200 proofs.

3. I assume I should not just provide unprocessed images in the proof book? My own wedding was shot back in film days so all I got were unprocessed images, but in this digital era is it expected to have "perfect" images in the proof album? I know I want to show my best work, but that is a lot of work for up to 200 images, many of which won't be selected for later print orders anyway. I factored my PP time into the print prices.

4. Do I legally have to get a signed release from them if I plan to use the images in a portfolio, even if they've already verbally agreed? Does this release need to contain specific wording, and if so, is there a sample or template anyone could point me to?

5. Does the photographer get to eat at the reception (assuming a buffet), or is that a big no-no? I remember offering my photographer to take a break and go through the buffet line while everyone ate at our reception, but should I only eat if it is offered, or what?

- Mike

Message edited by author 2007-02-15 15:23:02.

TCGuru

Canon EOS-40D

02/15/2007 03:42:23 PM · #2

Originally posted by Creature:

I answer you as a certified Bridal Consultant:

You get a deposit (your usual daily fee) when they sign the contract. The rest when they ORDER the pictures.

OUTLINE EVERY ASPECT of the photography side in the contract. Brides will nitpick through it and look for loopholes ;) AFAIK, you may put your release in the contract as well.

WATERMARK the proofs... perhaps just a corner but make sure they can't get them reproduced without you!! (they will try) Just do basic editing on these and tell them they will get a better retouch with their final order.

Brides expect to feed the help (it is common courtesy). The coordinator, band, photographer, and even clergy should be provided for.

Above all, don't try to stiff your bride or her parents. Word of mouth is the best advertising you can get and if you play fair, they will remember it ;)

Keep in mind: A happy client will tell anyone who needs your services. An unhappy client will tell EVERYONE!

hehe

Jojo

Message edited by author 2007-02-15 15:43:11.

Valdo

Canon EOS-40D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

02/15/2007 03:56:47 PM · #3

My sister is organizing her wedding now, so this is the info I've got.

Usually (at least in this area) the photographers ask for 1/3 to 1/2 of the money the moment you sign the contract. Then the rest or another 1/3 when you select the pictures you want and the final payment when you pick up the album (paying half at the contact day and half when selecting the proofs is more common).

In your case I would say ask at least USD200 now just to avoid problems at the end. Also, be very careful in doing this. Even though you are doing it mostly for the experience be aware that you are in a very risky position. If something happens with the proofs or your equipment or whatever the bride will go after you as if you were charging moon for it. What does the contract says about your liability if something like that happens?

About the proofs, usually as a client you never get anything of print quality, that is the photog business so just give away web quality proofs and make them order prints from you.

Good luck

Spork99

Canon EOS M6 Mk II

Canon EF-M 22mm STM Lens

02/15/2007 04:33:45 PM · #4

Originally posted by Creature:

1. Get a non-refundable deposit/retainer/ whatever you call it as soon as you book the day. (Be careful what you do call it, as some states do not allow payments specifically called "deposits" to be non-refundable, even if so specified in the contract) Usually 25-35% of the package cost, the balance when they place their order. I know some photogs that collect another 25-35% upon delivery of the proofs and the balance upon placing the order, but that's up to you.

2&3. Proofs are just that proofs. They should not be final edits, they should only have basic editing done; rough color and exposure correction, no spot editing, blemish removal etc. You can show the couple an example of a finished print, but don't do that in your proofs. You want to have yourself identified as the copyright holder. You can embed a watermark of some kind into the image. Some photographers will use a stamp with indelible ink on the reverse so the mark doesn't affect the image. There are ways around virtually any watermark/copyright notice except for those that would render them image non-salable.

4. Just include it in your contract.

5. I always ate when a meal was served at a wedding, buffet or sit-down. You may want to remind them that they need to feed you. It doesn't really affect providing good coverage since the guests generally don't look good eating. The only times I didn't get a chance to eat was if the reception was appetizers only.

pawdrix

Nikon D700

Nikon AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

02/15/2007 05:26:40 PM · #5

$3000

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

02/16/2007 09:14:15 AM · #6

^ lol ... $3000 what?

Thanks for the advice everyone. That will be good going forward. I've got a good book on wedding photography now, and glanced through it last night and saw much of the same advice. I'll probably still get a contract signed for this one, and I told her I'll collect the payment in full at the rehearsal (since it's only $300 and really only covers my initial services in this case). She was fine with that -- they're very cool and easy-going, young and inexperienced with the whole wedding thing, so I'm not the least bit worried about problems or bait-and-switch tactics on this one. But will definitely heed this advice (payment and contracts w/ releases) if I choose to do others.

Regarding the actual photography, the common limitation of no flash applies, but I also have to remain at the back of the sanctuary. In order to get a clear shot, that means setting up at the end of the center aisle and shooting about 50 feet, with a large, bright stained glass window directly behind the altar. So there will be obvious technical difficulties with this one. There are no spotlights in the church, just the usual ambiance lighting, so backlight will be tough.

I will probably try to move along the back wall and at least get some upper-body and face shots without the window right behind. But in order to make the best use of available light, I am going to rent the awesome Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 VR lens for the weekend (only $35, not including the $1400 deposit!) and then leave it safe in the car during the reception.

crazedfost78

Nikon D300

02/16/2007 11:10:30 AM · #7

Well you want to get the deposit up front and the remaining amount at least 2 weeks prior to the wedding however youa re only charging $300 so I would get the whole thing up front.
Not much money on this one for sure....

02/16/2007 12:43:32 PM · #8

Originally posted by crazedfost78:

Not much money on this one for sure....

I know ... I just wanted enough to cover my expenses for this first go at it, and I knew they were considering just having a family member or friend take pics, so I wanted to be sure they'd ask me. I am just testing the waters to see if this is something I'm even interested in doing, and if it is then I'll build up my rates once I have a portfolio to prove I can do it well enough to justify those rates.

Prof_Fate

02/17/2007 09:08:10 AM · #9

Originally posted by Creature:

1. When do I collect my fee? I certainly wouldn't expect that to happen on the wedding day, so should I get it right when they contract with me for the shoot (which happened purely via email this time), or when I first meet with them to go over the details (which has also already happened), at the rehearsal, or after the wedding day? I'm not getting paid much (my first job + their low budget = my offer to do it for $300) so I don't think there's any need or expectation to split the payment.

$300...
anyway, you get a deposit/retainer to reserve their date when they sign the contract. You NEED A CONTRACT I don't care what - they are paying you, and you need it in writing what you're doing and what they're getting, etc. Lots of contracts on the web, google. Find something you like and take it to a local lawyer - each state is different. In PA a deposit is always refundable, a retainer is not. If the first lawyer to see your contract is that of an unhappy bride it's too late to save your @ss.
I take the balance of the payment 2 weeks before the date - time for the check to clear so to speak. In some places getting the last 25% happens after the wedding when they place their album order. My packages include the album, and its way too common for brides to wait 4, 6 or 9 months to place that order. A friend's sister has waited 3.5 YEARS to place her album order!!! - get the money upfront, all the other vendors do.

Originally posted by Creature:

2. When I provide the proofs in an album, should I watermark them as proofs so they're only usable as proofs, or do I provide "final-quality" 4x6's which they'll get to keep (which may cut back on the number of prints they order from me later)? My terms merely said that I'll provide an album of up to 200 proofs.

It's up to you. I did one proof album - it took me 2 hours to put the 200 prints in there - never again! I proof to the web (and sell the images to the wedding guests). I use the online for the bride to pick her album images. I sell few loose prints to the B&G so IMO, don't depend on that as a way to get rich. My more expensive packages include printed 4x6 proofs in a print box (up to 500), no watermarks. As I stated, my packages are all-inclusive so I lose nothing this way. This is totally up to you how you do it. Web proofing costs me $25-30, printed proofs are about $65. A proof album is $35 all by itself. I dont' like wasting the proof album or throwing away a proof magazine or watermarking the 4x6's and then tossing them in the trash. But that's me.

Originally posted by Creature:

3. I assume I should not just provide unprocessed images in the proof book? My own wedding was shot back in film days so all I got were unprocessed images, but in this digital era is it expected to have "perfect" images in the proof album? I know I want to show my best work, but that is a lot of work for up to 200 images, many of which won't be selected for later print orders anyway. I factored my PP time into the print prices.

Proof images are just that - color corrected, exposure corrected and print. Throw out the bad ones of course. I shoot 900ish and give 500ish. For $300 you did not factor in your PP time. $75-100 is the going rate around here photogs charge for wedding photography, be that shooting or PP'ing images. I can hire a PS person for $10-12/hour, and I need to make a profit on that, so I can't charge less than about $35-40.

Originally posted by Creature:

4. Do I legally have to get a signed release from them if I plan to use the images in a portfolio, even if they've already verbally agreed? Does this release need to contain specific wording, and if so, is there a sample or template anyone could point me to?

This is in the wedding contract. you need one.

Originally posted by Creature:

5. Does the photographer get to eat at the reception (assuming a buffet), or is that a big no-no? I remember offering my photographer to take a break and go through the buffet line while everyone ate at our reception, but should I only eat if it is offered, or what?

For a 3 or 4 hour wedding, no you generally don't eat. For an 8 to 10 hour day, you bet your sweet bippy you eat! I tell my clients that while they're eating I'll (and my assistant) will be eating. If a buffet, we eat last. (i've seen videographers be FIRST in line, ahead of the B&G - tacky tacky tacky!) No one wants to be photographed while the eat. If you eat last you can get table shots (which sell on the web to the guests better than most other shots) while the tables are relatively clean. If it's a sit down, then caterer's know and offer meals for the DJ/vid/preacher/photog, etc. I tell the client I don't care where I sit, but that working a 7 to 9 hour day means I need a lunch break too!