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11/12/2003 04:04:39 PM · #76 |
one idea is to have everyone that enters submit their original photo untouched with exif along with their photo that was been touched up in ps. it would then be allowed to request a dq for photojournalistic accuracy which would then send the photo to the site admins to judge whether or not the photo truly is accurate to the scene at the moment the shutter was snapped. these original photos would then be deleted after the challenge is over
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11/12/2003 04:05:18 PM · #77 |
| When I'm doing run-of-the-mill photography, You bet I do spot editing. I think most of us do. But I also find that by being restricted from such luxuries, I'm forced to concntrate on my original photograph alot more, thus improving my abilities. I realize others don't feel that way, but it's my reason for being in favor of the restrictions. |
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11/12/2003 04:19:37 PM · #78 |
People talk about the fact that this issue has already been voted on.
The way I remember it, there were a huge amount of people who said they would like an editing-allowed challenge every now and then. What happened after that? We went MONTHS without such a challenge. Of course people go Photoshop crazy after this amount of time. Also, the rules never stated that a no editing restrictions challenge should look natural. To me, it looked blatantly like the majority of voters were ignored as we have had next to no periodic unlimited editing challenges.
One more point... I think it's fair to say that it's the better photographers here who want to relax the rules, and the beginner photographers who want the rules to stay as they are. As a result, the best photographers are leaving regularly. I think the beginning photographers need to recognise the fact that these excellent photographers should be encouraged to stick around for the purely selfish reason that these are the people who are going to help them improve!
Bob |
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11/12/2003 04:22:10 PM · #79 |
Originally posted by soup:
i yiii yiii
all of us can do whatever we want ( or lack thereof ) with photos - whenever we want.
just not necessairly HERE...
soup |
I don't have the time for this. I would rather that my DPC photos were also ready to be printed for my own purposes. We're all busy people... restricting the rules for these challenges adds to the amount of time we spend editing if we want to use all the tools at our disposal for our own prints. To deny ourselves ANY tools to make professional photos is madness. |
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11/12/2003 04:42:20 PM · #80 |
| Yes I say lift the restrictions, all of them, otherwise in 6 months we will again be faced with these continuous threads about someone wanting to be able to do something else. Just solve it all at once |
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11/12/2003 05:13:57 PM · #81 |
I still like the idea of a third challenge a week, one that allows full editing.
Alternately, as someone (Bobster?) was saying ..... I'd like to see editing rules lifted more frequently. I've been here since July and I think Halloween is the only editing challenge I've seen, which does seem to contradict what the poll suggested people wanted.
As for the big YES/NO question .... I can see great arguments for both sides.
One thing though .... if SOME rules are relaxed, spot editing allowed, object from one photo pulled into another not allowed etc, it needs to be made very clear so it is not open to too much interpretation. If what is legal becomes too subjective the arguments here on "why was this pick DQ'd and this one was not" will get totally out of hand. At least the way things are it is clear cut. I don't think it would be fair on the site council or members if disqualification were open to too much interpretation.
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11/12/2003 06:29:01 PM · #82 |
| My feelings are that if certain spot editing things were allowed you would still have to take a great picture in camera to have a great picture. Removing dust, or empty pixels, or a hair lying in the foreground you didn't see when you took the image, etc, would not make the image 10 times better. It is just cleaning up for a better presentation. If that kind of spot editing was allowed, you would still have to take a good image in the camera to start with. |
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11/12/2003 06:36:03 PM · #83 |
I agree Yes
So i vote for door number 3 no 2 no 1. O.K Monty door number 1. |
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11/12/2003 06:37:02 PM · #84 |
Originally posted by MeThoS:
Originally posted by toocool:
Originally posted by MeThoS:
Why do you even own a digital camera then? The point is not whether someone can match your obvious skills with your point and shoot camera with their Digital SLR, but more of the things that you lose when you use a digital camera vs. a film camera. If I wanted to increase the tonal range of a photograph, I could pull or push process my film in developing. I could then dodge or burn my print. And if any dust was on the print I could then DUST SPOT IT!
The advantage of using a digital camera is that I can do all this and more, in less time and with greater results. I think there is an inherent fear of the people who are lacking in photoshop(darkroom) skills that they will be left in the dust if the rules are relaxed. Which is false. If anything, the extra competition will force some growth around here.
If it's that big of a concern, they could have 2 catagories for the challenge. Open editiing and no editing. Hell, we should just have a raw challenge... |
A major reason that many people now are getting into digital photography is a cost issue. My digital camera cost me $300 US. I now do not have to pay to have any film developed. If I could afford to get my own film developing equipment I would still have to pay for photo paper and chemicals. I have because of economic reasons never been able to BE a PHOTOGRAPHER. (not a picture taker, a photographer!) The advantage of digital to me is economic!
Because I've never had access to a full dark room set up with all the available film editing procedures, I'm not intimidated by the lack of those abilities here. I can focus on my photographic talents. I know what can be done through manipulation, I just don't think it needs to be done here! |
Then I guess I'm not afraid of you getting better then me...;D |
I've never said that I will never use editing techniques that are restricted for the challenges. I just think we can become better photographers in general using the challenges as a tool to improve. That said, maybe you SHOULD be afraid I'll become better.... ( blowing raspberries your way :-P )
Message edited by author 2003-11-12 18:40:29.
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11/12/2003 06:58:25 PM · #85 |
My thoughts...
My thoughts. |
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11/12/2003 07:46:10 PM · #86 |
:::::whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip whip::::::::
Leave it alone.....what did that poor dead horse ever do to you?
Message edited by author 2003-11-12 19:46:32.
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11/12/2003 09:14:51 PM · #87 |
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11/12/2003 10:24:37 PM · #88 |
Yes. Open it up to basic editing while maintaining the integrity of the shot.
It's breaking my heart to see dust spots. Plus not being able to use layers and blends and stuff. I like the idea of automatically uploading the original one to keep everything nice and easy for the admins.
Do you think Ansel wrote one whole volume on negatives because he loved his pictures straight from the camera? If he couldn't find perfection in his shots, who, on this site, can? |
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11/12/2003 10:35:44 PM · #89 |
| Or the entire volume (The Print) on how to turn that negative into a finished work? |
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11/12/2003 10:43:30 PM · #90 |
I seem to be in the minority (of those who read/post in the forums anyway...) but I vote "no."
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11/12/2003 10:44:24 PM · #91 |
| Exactly. Before I joined this site, I got so mad because some film purists would try to put down digital because our darkroom is a computer. I think if the photographers of Ansel's era were around now, they would have been the first to see and use all the tools available to them with digital. But, again, I am talking about bringing out the best in a photo, not merging and fiddling around with graphical effects and creating a whole new picture. |
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11/12/2003 10:46:52 PM · #92 |
| I heard directly from one of Adams' assistants that he would have "loved" playing around with Photoshop. |
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11/12/2003 11:26:30 PM · #93 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I heard directly from one of Adams' assistants that he would have "loved" playing around with Photoshop. |
I gotta believe that Adams would have grinned from ear to ear at having the kind of tools available that we have today. Lifting the editing restrictions is the right thing to do, we just have to execute it in a manner that preserves photographic integrity, and I really do not think it is that difficult.
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11/12/2003 11:31:22 PM · #94 |
The Halloween results kind of contradict the belief that the voters will vote down "non-realistic" photoshopped digital art. (No knocks on any entrants - I know it was open editing.)
I vote - whatever. No middle ground seems acceptable to any of the extremists.
Carry on. |
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11/12/2003 11:31:59 PM · #95 |
Though I vote no overall (with the only exception spot edits to remove sensor dust), I think perhaps they could enlist another challenge catagory that could include post production to within limits of course.
Lets face it, there are two ends of this spectrum. On one hand we have the highly talented photgraphers that have limited post skill, and then we have limited photographers that are perhaps highly skilled post production masters.
To me, its like the difference between classical music and perhaps rock music. They are both well respected music, and they both obviously have there places. But they really don't mix well on the same album! |
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11/13/2003 01:09:44 AM · #96 |
I belong to a camera club and we had a guest speaker a month ago that studied under Ansel Adams.
This man uses photoshop to edit and enhance his photos and that was what his lecture was about.
That being said...he is a professional photographer and makes money from his craft....we on the other hand are vying for a computer graphic of a ribbon...
Let the admins work this out and move on
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11/13/2003 01:46:57 AM · #97 |
Originally posted by jefalk:
To me, its like the difference between classical music and perhaps rock music. They are both well respected music, and they both obviously have there places. But they really don't mix well on the same album! |
Actually heavy metal/hard rock and classical work very well together. There is an actual album out called Heavy Classix, that is cool. Another example is Metallica's recent album with a symphony.
So, they do mix well, just like a little compromise between a bit more editing and classic photo tools use.
Message edited by author 2003-11-13 01:47:14.
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11/13/2003 02:56:37 AM · #98 |
No, No, uhm, on odd occasions, but not 50% of them.
no way that often.
another idea for you photoshop nerds..
when submitting the photo you select if it was "spot edited" or not, its all unknown during voting whats what, and at the end of the voting, 1st 2nd and 3rd are selected from both the edit and no-edit, so you have 2 firsts and so on per challenge..
just an idea to satisfy some, but personally I'd like to see the restrictions held in place.
I could improve my challenge entries with photoshop, but I'd prefer be forced to making the origional scene professional, than turning an average scene nice, loses the photographers skill and proves just the photoshop skills.
heaps of other sites don;t have rules, why not go to them for ope challenges, and here for rules?
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11/13/2003 03:17:03 AM · #99 |
Notice that quite a few but not all of the ppl who own the so call super cameras say "yes". I wonder if any of the "Yes" ppl work in the industry, graphic design, webmaster, advertising, etc? How many years experience with the software/plugins?
Not all of us own or have access to a Mac G5, Photoshop CS, Canon Eos 10D, a studio to shoot in ,or whatever high price gadget of the week.
The only way I would say "Yes" is if you make multiple divisions "Purist" and "PsRs".
The "PsRs" can do whatever type of editing they want as long as it is natural. No overdoing it.
The "Purist" will issue submissions as currently set in the rules.
Same topic. You can edit or not. There would be a flag or icon to tell if the picture was altered outside the "purist" rules or not.
If you get a ribbon and you didn't use PS to alter you picture you get a special ribbon. That way an unaltered picture would be worth more then a PS'd one.
Top 25 "purists" entry will have to submit there original entries to be confirmed to be within the rules.
Message edited by author 2003-11-13 04:40:10.
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11/13/2003 04:40:27 AM · #100 |
Originally posted by cvt_:
heaps of other sites don't have rules, why not go to them for open challenges, and here for rules? |
Have to agree with that... rather than having the monthly "why oh why have all these restrictions" thread (almost as exciting as the "why didn't I get any comments / why are the commenters mean to me / how dare you not give my photo a 10" threads) why not use sites with rules (like this one) for entering "unmolested" photos, and the more Photoshop-friendly sites for your editing fix? |
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