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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Wildlife results .....seriously.
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01/29/2007 12:54:52 PM · #1
Firstly, the "images" in this challenge were outstanding and worthy of high scores. I guess the issue I'm having is when the challenge description clearly states:

For the purpose of this challenge, "wildlife" should be considered non-domesticated mammals, birds, reptiles and amphibians living in a natural environment.

Why then are there not DQs handed out for images clearly stating they were obtained in a domesticated environment? Is it not different than using an editing step otherwise prohbited in the rules because it was inconvenient otherwise? I figure the challenge was to find "Wildlife" in its "natural environment" where it "naturally" lives. If all you could find is a housefly, well then you'd better get an image of the darn fly or sit this one out.

Curious why this has not been brought up as it is a blatant contravention of the challenge description. BTW, I did not enter nor did I vote. Any thoughts?
01/29/2007 12:56:33 PM · #2
There have never been DQs for not meeting the challenge description (except the Rubber Ducky April Fools challenge)
01/29/2007 12:57:13 PM · #3
For an image to be DQed because of challenge description, the description would have to be listed under "extra rules," I believe. Not meeting the challenge has otherwise never been criteria for disqualification.
01/29/2007 12:59:34 PM · #4
I'm going to have to say that a 'Natural' environment is not necesarilly a 'Wild' environment. I'm sure theres plenty of debate that can go on about the semantics of it all, but I feel that the animals you see if you were to go to a park or zoo are still very much wild animals. They aren't living in a wild environment, but their environments are often times as natural as you might be able to achieve.
01/29/2007 12:59:52 PM · #5
Very well, you got me, though it really does cheapen the results as I thought part of the effort was to seek out wildlife rather than taking a "frozen fuzzy" out of the closet. It still seems wrong to me.
01/29/2007 01:02:07 PM · #6
Originally posted by Ivo:

Very well, you got me, though it really does cheapen the results as I thought part of the effort was to seek out wildlife rather than taking a "frozen fuzzy" out of the closet. It still seems wrong to me.


Yeah, there are a lot of challenges where I feel like that. Like color specific challenges where colors are just shifted to meet the criteria. Or exposures that should be certain lengths but aren't. In the end, I guess the real challenge is just to make it look like you met the challenge.
01/29/2007 01:13:00 PM · #7
Originally posted by mk:


Yeah, there are a lot of challenges where I feel like that. Like color specific challenges where colors are just shifted to meet the criteria. Or exposures that should be certain lengths but aren't. In the end, I guess the real challenge is just to make it look like you met the challenge.


Sometimes it is good to go beyond the challenge. When you see a challenge topic, such as Fill the Frame, you already know the field is going to be filled with frame filled portraits and a ton a macros. Likewise, you know that Minimalism is going to have alot of negative space entries. I think it is refreshing when people put out ideas that fit the challenge but don't neccessarily have the same standard direction as the masses.
01/29/2007 01:26:37 PM · #8
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01/29/2007 01:28:26 PM · #9
I love that horse!
01/29/2007 01:29:02 PM · #10
Originally posted by jaysonmc:


Sometimes it is good to go beyond the challenge. When you see a challenge topic, such as Fill the Frame, you already know the field is going to be filled with frame filled portraits and a ton a macros. Likewise, you know that Minimalism is going to have alot of negative space entries. I think it is refreshing when people put out ideas that fit the challenge but don't neccessarily have the same standard direction as the masses.


I don't think we're talking about the same thing here.
01/29/2007 01:32:10 PM · #11
Originally posted by doctornick:

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Good response but make sure you don't beat the horse too loudly as you might wake the wild lion in his natural environment of Quebec. ;-)
01/29/2007 01:32:54 PM · #12
Originally posted by jaysonmc:

I love that horse!


Yeah, me too and I'm beginning to think he's into S&M :-)
01/29/2007 01:33:19 PM · #13
Originally posted by Ivo:

Very well, you got me, though it really does cheapen the results as I thought part of the effort was to seek out wildlife rather than taking a "frozen fuzzy" out of the closet. It still seems wrong to me.


A lot of people dont like images that DNMC (Do Not Meet Challenge), and they show their disdain with their votes. I generally tend to sit on the fence, if an image has been titled to shoe-horn it into a challenge, I usually leave a comment and vote low, however in the case of Wildlife challenge, if a pic was not taken `in the wild`, I wouldn't vote it down, a lot of people dont have access to areas abundant in wildlife, so a zoo or such is their only option.

I would never request a DQ for a DNMC, the voters are, sometimes, a switched on lot and the voting generally tends to favour those that

a/ meet the challenge
b/ take an amazing photo

Other than that, welcome to the crazy world of DPC-voting!
01/29/2007 01:41:46 PM · #14
I wouldn't hold the photographers so accountable. The challenge description is what needs to be beaten. What difference does it make where the photo is made? Should part of the challenge in a 'wildlife' competition be to force the photographer out into the wild? The purpose should be to produce an excellent photo, which can be done other ways.
01/29/2007 01:56:49 PM · #15
Unless special rules are in effect, image is everything. The task is to communicate the challenge description to your audience in a photo. An image that appears to meet the challenge (but really didn't) will generally outscore an image that doesn't appear to meet the challenge (even if it did).
01/29/2007 01:59:00 PM · #16
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

I wouldn't hold the photographers so accountable. The challenge description is what needs to be beaten. What difference does it make where the photo is made? Should part of the challenge in a 'wildlife' competition be to force the photographer out into the wild? The purpose should be to produce an excellent photo, which can be done other ways.


Then what is the purpose of the description?

The challenge in "this" wildlife competiton "is" to capture the subject in its natural environment as stated in the challenege description. If it was no clearly mentioned, I would have no dispute.

Curious how this site flourishes on situational ethics.
01/29/2007 02:01:54 PM · #17
i can say that is refreshing - but a lot of times it also kind of hurts too ;} at least if you're the one trying to be refreshing.

Originally posted by jaysonmc:

Sometimes it is good to go beyond the challenge. When you see a challenge topic, such as Fill the Frame, you already know the field is going to be filled with frame filled portraits and a ton a macros. Likewise, you know that Minimalism is going to have alot of negative space entries. I think it is refreshing when people put out ideas that fit the challenge but don't neccessarily have the same standard direction as the masses.

01/29/2007 02:04:48 PM · #18
Originally posted by Ivo:

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

I wouldn't hold the photographers so accountable. The challenge description is what needs to be beaten. What difference does it make where the photo is made? Should part of the challenge in a 'wildlife' competition be to force the photographer out into the wild? The purpose should be to produce an excellent photo, which can be done other ways.


Then what is the purpose of the description?

The challenge in "this" wildlife competiton "is" to capture the subject in its natural environment as stated in the challenege description. If it was no clearly mentioned, I would have no dispute.

Curious how this site flourishes on situational ethics.


LOL, it gets by..

Also its a matter of perspective, stick that description in front of a lawyer and he will tear it to pieces. I mean, to the animal, if it was reared in captivity then its surroundings are totally natural. :-)

I know I know, I am clutching at straws, but isnt that the whole thing about any artform? Its all a matter of personal interpretation, if you can make the voters sympathise with that interpretation, then you will get the votes, if you decide to go too far `out of the box`, you will get slaughtered by the DNMC police.. The good 'togs on here can manage to do balance both of these AND produce stunning pieces of art..

the gits :)
01/29/2007 02:06:51 PM · #19
Originally posted by Ivo:

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

I wouldn't hold the photographers so accountable. The challenge description is what needs to be beaten. What difference does it make where the photo is made? Should part of the challenge in a 'wildlife' competition be to force the photographer out into the wild? The purpose should be to produce an excellent photo, which can be done other ways.


Then what is the purpose of the description?

The challenge in "this" wildlife competiton "is" to capture the subject in its natural environment as stated in the challenege description. If it was no clearly mentioned, I would have no dispute.

Curious how this site flourishes on situational ethics.


A zoo is a natural environment for any animal that lives there.
01/29/2007 02:58:55 PM · #20
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

A zoo is a natural environment for any animal that lives there.


So is an abattoir for cattle at slaughter.
01/29/2007 03:02:49 PM · #21
Originally posted by Ivo:

Originally posted by jmsetzler:

A zoo is a natural environment for any animal that lives there.


So is an abattoir for cattle at slaughter.


Would of got a ten from me!!
01/29/2007 03:11:40 PM · #22
Bitch, bitch, bitch. Moan, moan, moan.

Hey, I got a ribbon, the brown one. There weren't any interesting wildlife where I'm at, so I created one. I'm pretty proud of getting the brown ribbon.

Challeng was:
"For the purpose of this challenge, "wildlife" should be considered non-domesticated mammals, birds, reptiles and amphibians living in a natural environment. Now that you know what to photograph, take your best shot!"

I thought woodys breast feed their young.
01/29/2007 06:07:15 PM · #23
I wouldn't worry much about it... Everyone has their own idea of what the challenge descriptions mean. Some are more interested in the photos, while others are more anal about technicalities involved with the descriptions. Others tend to pick on borders, while a few just give low scores to everything :)
01/29/2007 06:17:59 PM · #24
I liked your concept Nullix, especially the Irwinesque title, I just don't think this was the challenge for it.
01/29/2007 06:52:54 PM · #25
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

...Should part of the challenge in a 'wildlife' competition be to force the photographer out into the wild?


To me, this is the meaning of a challenge in which the details state to get the shot in the animal's natural environment. IMO the challenges here are a lot MORE than mere contests. Challenge descriptions are detailed to challenge photographers.

I certainly challenged myself to get a shot that was in the spirit of this challenge. I anticipated the zoo shot debates and went out of my way to show that my entry was captured in it's natural environment. I could have gone to Metro-Dade Zoo, it would have been a lot easier and safer!

Now, I'm not complaning, but compare my efforts to meet the spirit of this challenge and compare them to the relative ease that some contestants encountered by going to the zoo.

While the final photograph is certainly important, remember, this is more than a photography contest. It is a challenge.
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