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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> My D200 is not behaving...
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01/25/2007 02:46:20 PM · #1
… as I want it to.
Which is to say I’m probably doing something wrong! :-)

What I want to do is set it up so that it will bracket my shot with an additional 1 stop under exposure – (if I err on exposure it’s usually within 1 stop over so this would be a quick way to cover myself in most cases).

My Camera is set to
Exposure Mode: Manual,
Shooting Mode: CH – Continuous High Speed
(b1) Auto-ISO: On - Max Sensitivty: 1600
(e5) Auto Bracketing: AE & Flash
(e6) Auto Bracketing in M: Flash/Speed

According to the D200 Manual: Auto Bracketing in M Exposure Mode (p167):
If no flash is attached when Custom Setting b1 is ON
camera will vary ISO sensitivity ONLY, regardless of setting selected.

What I’m expecting to happen is that, having determined my exposure and framed my shot, if I activate Auto Bracketing (press Bkt and select from Main Command Dial) the camera will take 2 shots 1 at my calculated exposure and one under exposed by varying the ISO setting by 1 stop.
What actually happens is…. When I activate Auto Bracketing (with ISO at eg 500)

It overrides Auto ISO – setting the ISO to 100.
The Auto ISO indicator stops blinking – signifying Auto ISO has not been initiated.
It indicates in the viewfinder that the calculated exposure is beyond the limits of the exposure meter (ie it will underexpose).
If I take 2 shots both are exposed the same (ie no bracketing) and are under-exposed as indicated by the viewfinder.

My overwhelming suspicion is that I’ve overlooked a setting somewhere – if anyone can spot my error I’d really appreciate a pointer – thanks!
01/25/2007 03:00:41 PM · #2
Have you set the bracketing To do 1 stop exposures. I have mine set at 1/3 increments, however I don't have any of the auto stuff set up. I'm thinkin gthat could be your problem. Try taking off the auto ISO setting. I'm also wondering why you have it set on continuous high. I only use that when photogphing sports.
01/25/2007 03:08:24 PM · #3
i just tried it
seemed to work just fine .. ??!!??
weird ..
01/25/2007 03:24:46 PM · #4
The problem is have both AutoISO and Manual Program mode set with Bracketing. I can go into more detail if you need... But it is easier just to take of AutoISO, it really doesn't make sense the configuration you have.

Hope that helps.
01/25/2007 03:27:25 PM · #5
Originally posted by cryan:

Have you set the bracketing To do 1 stop exposures. I have mine set at 1/3 increments, however I don't have any of the auto stuff set up. I'm thinkin gthat could be your problem. Try taking off the auto ISO setting. I'm also wondering why you have it set on continuous high. I only use that when photogphing sports.


Just an FYI, why he probably has Continuous high on; if you have this set with bracketing it will fly through just the amount of brackets you have determined then pause. Example, 3 frame bracket, it will do a 3 shot burst then wait a second, before the next 3 frame burst. Or you can do 9 frame burst.

Incidently, I always keep my camera on continuous high, because it is extremely easy to hit just one shot and the advantages of multiple shots any time is a blessing.

Message edited by author 2007-01-25 15:27:55.
01/25/2007 03:34:01 PM · #6
Originally posted by jaysonmc:

The problem is have both AutoISO and Manual Program mode set with Bracketing. I can go into more detail if you need... But it is easier just to take of AutoISO, it really doesn't make sense the configuration you have.

Hope that helps.


this isn't the issue .. it works ..
01/25/2007 03:38:14 PM · #7
What truly puzzles me about your problem is that I can not set my D200 to take just 2 frames when in auto bracketing. The lowest setting of frames is 3. That being said I set my camera up as yours and tried it out.

Edit:(Homer Simpson moment: I wasn't in continuous High speed mode therefor plus two frames and minus frames were not available.) Duh! *see part II

Part I
Note: I also have e7 set to under>MTR>over

I took a series of 3 exposures of this monitor with 50mm F1.8
shutter set at 1/100 set the exposure meter dead center. Shot one used ISO 125, shot two used ISO 200, and shot three used ISO 320. Oops. I used .7 stop instead of 1. Retry.

Now ISO100, ISO 200, and ISO 400.

You're probably right about the problem. With todays new cameras with myriads of options, most mere humans find it
difficult to keep up with all the options. BTW any one with a D200 reading this post please remember to turn bracketing off if you're experimenting because of the post. If you don't you'll find your self "cornfused" as the old timers around here put it. I can't count the number of times I read about people having weird exposure problems and they had bracketing on and didn't know it. Of course this never happens to me. ;)

PartII
With CH mode minus 2 frames set. The camera takes one shot at ISO 100 and the next at ISO 200. Perfect 1 stop diff.
Out of curiosity I'll try with e7 set to MTR>under>over
Ahhhh-soooo when started with e7 that way autoISO starts at 200 so it can drop down one stop on the second shot. And it did drop to ISO 100 on the second shot with e7 set this way. This also results in a different shutter speed for the original manual settings. I think this is one reason I never use autoISO and autoBracking and other hi-teck setting on my D200. My camera is too smart for me.

BTW autoISO blinked during the entire time of my tests.
01/25/2007 03:43:18 PM · #8
Originally posted by ralph:

Originally posted by jaysonmc:

The problem is have both AutoISO and Manual Program mode set with Bracketing. I can go into more detail if you need... But it is easier just to take of AutoISO, it really doesn't make sense the configuration you have.

Hope that helps.


this isn't the issue .. it works ..


Did you have your initial ISO set to 500 per the original poster?
01/25/2007 03:43:30 PM · #9
Originally posted by ralph:

Originally posted by jaysonmc:

The problem is have both AutoISO and Manual Program mode set with Bracketing. I can go into more detail if you need... But it is easier just to take of AutoISO, it really doesn't make sense the configuration you have.

Hope that helps.


this isn't the issue .. it works ..


Yup, works fine on mine. Though I'll never use it.
01/25/2007 03:45:49 PM · #10
Originally posted by jaysonmc:

Originally posted by ralph:

Originally posted by jaysonmc:

The problem is have both AutoISO and Manual Program mode set with Bracketing. I can go into more detail if you need... But it is easier just to take of AutoISO, it really doesn't make sense the configuration you have.

Hope that helps.


this isn't the issue .. it works ..


Did you have your initial ISO set to 500 per the original poster?


Oopps I forgot I could set the iso manually when in autoISO.
Retried and it worked great. Started at 500 and dropped to 250 for the second shot.
01/25/2007 03:46:05 PM · #11
Thanks guys - I didn't expect such a fast response
I just set out a reply to Cryan and when I came to post it discovered all these extra posts - much appreciated...
I'll get back properly once I've taken it all in - just wanted to say thanks!

Message edited by author 2007-01-25 15:46:28.
01/25/2007 03:52:42 PM · #12
Originally posted by jaysonmc:

Originally posted by ralph:

Originally posted by jaysonmc:

The problem is have both AutoISO and Manual Program mode set with Bracketing. I can go into more detail if you need... But it is easier just to take of AutoISO, it really doesn't make sense the configuration you have.

Hope that helps.


this isn't the issue .. it works ..


Did you have your initial ISO set to 500 per the original poster?

yes
01/25/2007 03:53:34 PM · #13
I guess it is best to see the EXIF data from both shots to compare if there is anything different. Wish I had my camera on me at the moment.
01/25/2007 03:58:44 PM · #14
haven't dnloaded them but the test shots from the LCD show ISO250 (in RED) as well as well EV -1 for the Bkt shots
but that is the only change in the data ..

interesting thing to try .. may have to think of a application ..

01/25/2007 04:01:43 PM · #15
Originally posted by ralph:

haven't dnloaded them but the test shots from the LCD show ISO250 (in RED) as well as well EV -1 for the Bkt shots
but that is the only change in the data ..

interesting thing to try .. may have to think of a application ..


Not you Ralph, I believe your data is fine. I meant the original poster, so we can get an idea what his camera is doing.
01/25/2007 04:05:16 PM · #16
Thanks for the responses – seems everyone else’s D200 is playing fair so it’s gotta be down to me…

Here’s the reasoning behind my Manual / Auto ISO set-up (which when I first realised the combo was possible I thought was ridiculous but having used it have now fallen in love with it – course it depends on what you shoot)

I like to shoot in Manual so I keep independent control over Shutter and Aperture settings but at the same time setting Auto ISO ‘On’ means the camera behaves in Auto mode, adjusting the ISO (only) to calculate the exposure.
I feel I get the best of both worlds that way – manual control with auto convenience - plus I can control ISO (if I want) by modifying either the shutter or aperture setting without having to hold down 2 buttons at once to adjust ISO independently.

I have Exposure Control (b3: shutter/aperture/bracketing) set to 1 stop to give me a fast response but I have ISO Sensitivity (b2) set to 1/3 stop – so the camera auto fine-tunes the exposure for me without any effort on my part.

I want the bracketing to adjust the ISO so as not to modify my ‘creative’ (aperture/shutter) settings. And in any case as both Shutter and Aperture are set by the user ISO is the only variable available to the camera.

I have it set to Continuous High (rather than Continuous Low), just because I can.
Is there an advantage to Continuous Low? In this case I only want 2 shots but I figure I might as well have them as close together as possible.

Which still leaves me with the problem of why my camera won’t play ball!

PS - I'll check through my EXIF as just suggested - Thanks....
01/25/2007 04:05:38 PM · #17
Originally posted by ralph:

haven't dnloaded them but the test shots from the LCD show ISO250 (in RED) as well as well EV -1 for the Bkt shots
but that is the only change in the data ..

interesting thing to try .. may have to think of a application ..


I usually don't use the auto anything. But.... if we get anymore snow this year that would be kinda neat to try. Maybe set it for .7 stop and do 3, one lower, one higher, to get different takes on snow exposures. Might be best with three frames higher. Thanks to this thread I learned a couple of things today!
01/25/2007 04:08:56 PM · #18
Originally posted by jaysonmc:


Not you Ralph, I believe your data is fine. I meant the original poster, so we can get an idea what his camera is doing.


i wish there was a way to dump out all the settings to a file
including custom modes & etc ...

that would be very useful
01/25/2007 04:19:22 PM · #19
Originally posted by ralph:

Originally posted by jaysonmc:


Not you Ralph, I believe your data is fine. I meant the original poster, so we can get an idea what his camera is doing.


i wish there was a way to dump out all the settings to a file
including custom modes & etc ...

that would be very useful


And also upload. That way when experimenting like this we'd all start on the same playing field. Good idea.
01/25/2007 04:50:58 PM · #20
Ok – I pulled the following EXIF info from the LCD and, after Downloading, from the properties info (Windows XP). I have Photoshop CS – but no other software from where I could download more EXIF data (if any more is available).

I took 3 images for the test:
1 at normal camera settings and 2 with auto bracketing (0 and -1 EV)

Most EXIF data was identical for all shots including:

Creation software: Ver.2.00
Exposure Program: Manual
Focal Length: 27mm
F-Number: F/4
Exposure Time: 1/125 sec.

The Data that changed was as follows:
(in order – No Braketing : Braketing 0 : Bracketing -1)

Exposure Compensation: 0 : 0 : -1
ISO Speed: 800 : 100 : 100

The ISO speed of 800 was shown in red on the LCD (ISO Auto On?)
The ISO speeds of 100 (bracketed shots) were shown in white (ISO auto off?)

These results just seem to confirm that when I engage Auto Bracketing it overrides
Auto ISO and sets the ISO to 100.
One irregularity though – though exposure compensation for the 2nd bracketed shot is shown as -1, the Shutter, Aperture and ISO do not change – and a visual of the images show that the 2nd bracketed exposure is the same as the 1st bracketed exposure.

Thanks for your continued patience :)
01/25/2007 05:29:05 PM · #21
When you set your Auto ISO what minimum shutter setting do you have it set too? setting b1 at the bottom. I think mine is the default of 1/125.
01/25/2007 05:47:43 PM · #22
Originally posted by fir3bird:

When you set your Auto ISO what minimum shutter setting do you have it set too? setting b1 at the bottom. I think mine is the default of 1/125.


For me it depends on what I'm shooting and what lens I'm using. Basically I set it to the lowest I can get away with handheld or if I'm shooting action the lowest speed I can get away with while still freezing the action.
01/25/2007 06:00:25 PM · #23
Mines currently set at 1/30th – with a VR lens and a static subject I can handhold steady. But the min shutter setting only kicks in when using Aperture Priority Exposure.
For Manual (and Shutter Priority) it doesn’t apply.
01/25/2007 06:15:59 PM · #24
Got an idea… Does my camera think it’s got a flash attached?

With Braketing OFF and the internal flash raised it behaves exactly the same – overriding the Auto ISO and setting ISO to 100.
On page 167 the manual specifically indicates that ISO bracketing will only work if no flash is attached

I’ve got a feeling this might be it – so, what would cause it to think I was using Flash when I wasn’t?
01/25/2007 06:25:38 PM · #25
Additional to the above….
All my Custom Settings for Braketing/Flash (e1-e7) are at default settings
In particular e3: Built In Flash is set to TTL
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