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01/15/2007 11:32:42 AM · #1 |
Okay one of my goals for 2006 was to make sure I explain why I chose a photo for a challenge. Instead of complaining, it'd be better to just tell members why and maybe they'll have an open mind in voting in the next challenge.
The challenge description was: "Show us something that you have been procrastining all year." (not to be confused with "show us procrastination")
So here was my photo:
How does this meet the challenge? The thing I procrastinated doing all year was talking to that dream girl (hence the title "how do I say....hello?"). Almost every guy has that a girl that they never talked to because they were too nervous or too scared. And you'd never know if you ever had the chance unless you actually sucked it up and said "hello".
I know the technicals are off. The photo is blurry, the background is overexposed. And I can admittedly say that I didn't take the photo that way on purpose. Nor did I take the photo specifically for this challenge. there were definetely photos with better focus than this one( I took 500 photos of her, at least one had to be focused right???). So why did I chose this photo with the technicals off so bad?
When I looked at the photo this was the one that screamed out to me as procrastination. The look in her eyes seems to show the guy about to approach. Looking from the guys point of view....When you finally approach that dream girl, she has this sorta glow and everything around her just seems to fade out and disappear (hence the overblown background). You're so nervous that everything is a blur. You just don't know what to say or how to say it.
I don't think a well focused photo, well proportioned photo could tell you the story of a guy finally approaching for the first time. This photo did.
I'd like to thank klstover and livitup and a couple of others for taking the time to understand where i was coming from with this photo. Alot of people commented that they don't get it, now I hope you do.
Thanks everyone for the comments though..I had a 18 comments, I do appreciate that.
Message edited by author 2007-01-15 11:34:51. |
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01/15/2007 11:39:42 AM · #2 |
| One has to be careful in entering challenges on this site, to make sure your entry will "speak to the voters" in such a way that the connection to the challenge is either very clear (as yours is not), or so well-done technically and compositionally, that it will attract attention on its own merit. A photo that has a personal connection to the photographer often will not be clear to the uninformed voter. I think your connection to the challenge topic was tenuous, and required an interpretation based on the title. Both of these things usually spell doom to a DPC challenge entry, especially if the photo is not otherwise a knock-out. |
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01/15/2007 11:58:16 AM · #3 |
| I want to know how you took 500 photos of her without talking to her -- mightn't she think that a bit odd? |
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01/15/2007 11:59:22 AM · #4 |
I believe (and I don't think I'm alone here) that there has to be some kind of connection between the picture and the challenge without having to read the title - if I can't I will rate the picture lower.
After all - this is a photography site, and a picture is supposed to say more than a 1000 words :)
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01/15/2007 11:59:27 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
I want to know how you took 500 photos of her without talking to her -- mightn't she think that a bit odd? |
I wondered about that myself. :D Please, do tell... |
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01/15/2007 12:04:36 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by silverscreen:
I believe (and I don't think I'm alone here) that there has to be some kind of connection between the picture and the challenge without having to read the title - if I can't I will rate the picture lower.
After all - this is a photography site, and a picture is supposed to say more than a 1000 words :) |
I generally agree and was tempted to comment the same. However that didn't appear to be true for the red or yellow ribbons in this challenge. Both very nice shots but without their title I never would have thought of procrastination.
BTW... I think that this was a tough challenge. Portraying procrastination with the photo alone was a tough order to fill. Well done to all that tried.
Message edited by author 2007-01-15 12:12:27. |
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01/15/2007 12:06:57 PM · #7 |
| When I first saw your entry, I took it as the girl procrastinating on saying hello - like maybe she was shy or something. Or maybe she didn't know English ;-) But on second glance, I got that she was on someone's radar. People here go on and on about how useless titles are, but in this case, a title that said, "approaching the girl of my dreams" - might have conveyed your intention a little more clearly. Better luck next time, with the entry and the girl ;-) |
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01/15/2007 12:41:16 PM · #8 |
I think tho that when a challenge topic is a rather abstract concept instead of something tangible, like "procrastination" "magic/mystery", "progress", or "superstitions" it has to be okay to have your title somewhat make clear what you were going for. The title is an integral part of the photo, and with some of these challenge topics, the title is necessary to clarify a very valid fit for the challenge.
But I agree with strangehost's great assessment of how it works here on dpc -- if you need the title to clarify -- you need to have a technically flawless photo that grabs ya enough to overlook that the photo concept isn't clear.
Now that you mention tho about the dream girl, it makes sense, but the technical flaws I guess killed ya (sorry)
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01/15/2007 12:54:19 PM · #9 |
Like others have commented, we 'got the photo' with the title, but the image as you stated yourself, the image had several major flaws of a technical nature. There are many images that a photographer takes that are emotionally important to them, but are difficult for others to understand or have a connection.
This is mainly because the rest of us don't have the context or connection of the image or the subject matter or the relationship. That is why it is often difficult to be objective of photos of family members or pets, they are loved by us so we love the photo. But the rest of us just see the flaws.
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01/15/2007 01:08:35 PM · #10 |
I tend to look at the images without reading the titles first, I like it that way. I think a good title is very important, but it shouldn't make the presentation.
For this image, I didn't get it, even with the title. I thought the girl in the picture was you, and I thought, with the title, that you were trying to say something about being shy, but I wasn't sure. Now, with your explanation, it's easier to understand.
I think though that in this case the low result has more to do with the picture itself than with the title. As a DPC challenge entry, it wasn't the best choice. |
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01/15/2007 01:24:06 PM · #11 |
What Strangeghost said. Conceptual challenges are tough because you have to analyze the topic and figure out what kind of image will communicate that message. In the case of Procrastination, the best solution IMO is to show the result of something that DIDN'T get done (ideally taking it to an extreme). A viewer looking at the image will see that something should have happened and if it's something that people really don't like to do, will likely attribute the apparent inaction to laziness or procrastination. The difficult part is to find a chore that people would rather avoid and make an appealing image out of it. Most of the top 10 finalists used this strategy, and the first place entry nailed it. For conceptual challenges, the technical qualities of the photo are just one aspect of image appeal and secondary to the overall concept (I've proven that theory with some technically bad ribbon winners).
In your entry, there was nothing to indicate that an expected action didn't occur. If you're not showing the result of inaction, then a title won't help at all. To make matters worse... even if you could get the voters to understand your intended concept, most people would attribute not asking a girl out to shyness or anxiety, NOT procrastination. I see similar problems with many of the Battle of the Sexes entries, and I'm really bummed that I didn't enter either of these conceptual challenges. I had some great ideas for each of them. :-(
Message edited by author 2007-01-15 13:27:32. |
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01/15/2007 02:30:06 PM · #12 |
I actually expected a low score for the technical aspects of the photo because I know that on this site, its hard to use purposely done imperfections in a photo and expect to win. For example in my Best of 2006 photo, in the description I already listed what was wrong...Of course I got 8 comments telling me the same thing. I know that technicals won't appeal to everyone. And there is always...ALWAYS some aspect technically in your photo that some one will not like.
I was more disappointed with the slew of I don't get it comments, which prompted me to explain it. It wasn't really a personal emotional piece..but more of my interpertation of the challenge. I figured you should show what you procrastinated on doing. So I had a girl in the photo looking as if someone was about to approach her.
By the way, this challenge has changed the way I'll look at photos. I have been one to comment before on how sometimes a photo wouldn't fit the challenge without the title....and in this case, i realized a title is key to fitting a photo to a concept challenge. (of course this will only change for concept challenges).
And I was able to take 500 photos of her, because this wasn't my dream girl....she was just a fill in. I could talk to her haha. So I took shots for her and shots for the guys who made the T-shirt she is wearing. |
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01/15/2007 02:59:27 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by albc28:
I was more disappointed with the slew of I don't get it comments, which prompted me to explain it. It wasn't really a personal emotional piece..but more of my interpertation of the challenge. |
Nevertheless... failing to approach a girl out of shyness or anxiety is not the same a putting it off. IMO, your concept is more about fear than procrastination. |
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01/15/2007 03:06:30 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by albc28:
I was more disappointed with the slew of I don't get it comments, which prompted me to explain it. It wasn't really a personal emotional piece..but more of my interpertation of the challenge. |
Nevertheless... failing to approach a girl out of shyness or anxiety is not the same a putting it off. IMO, your concept is more about fear than procrastination. |
Would have worked well for the "phobia" challenge. :-)
Message edited by author 2007-01-16 02:07:43.
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01/15/2007 03:26:34 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by albc28:
So I had a girl in the photo looking as if someone was about to approach her. |
I don't see that. I just see a girl staring at a camera. Even if I did see that, I don't see procrastination in that. It seems like it would come off more of "waiting" than procrastinating. The photo is of her but she's not the one procrastinating anything - there's nothing obvious there that shows procrastination. To us, the viewer, are we supposed to figure out that she's the one procrastinating something, that someone is procrastinating something about her? It's not clear. In conceptual challenges the subject needs to be fairly obvious.
The subject doesn't have to be "action" (procrastinating), but it does have to be able to explain it to us without words. Even with my photo (which scored in the bottom 50%), a lot of people got it, and a lot didn't.
If it were me (and I had the time, people, etc.), I'd have conveyed your message by shooting the procrastinating "in action", as it were. A person sitting at a table, or standing hands-in-pockets-nervous, looking at the girl (who's not paying attention) in the distance with some fuzzy DOF. Even that may not have fit the challenge enough. |
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01/15/2007 03:41:49 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by albc28:
... Instead of complaining, it'd be better to just tell members why and maybe they'll have an open mind in voting in the next challenge.
Procrastination:
... I know the technicals are off. |
There are two lessons to be learned from this image...
One... Photography is a visual medium and DPC voters rightly take a very literal interpretation of a challenge topic. Unfortunately, they vote excessively harsh when they do not immediately see a connection.
Lesson: Present a visually literal interpretation of a challenge topic for a higher score.
Two... Technically inferior images, whether purposeful or not, will score low. The reason is simple. This is a learning site and it is expected that images are done to a high technical excellence. It is possible to apply grain and other "inferior" techniques successfully if it is obvious to the vast majority of voters that it fits the particular image, but that is more advanced and harder to do. Lesson: Learn and apply technical excellence in your images for higher scores.
The highest scoring images always apply both a visually literal interpretation of the challenge topic and technical excellence.
Though I would not have given your image such an abysmally low score as it got you did fail on both counts and that explains why you got the score you did.
Final Lesson:
Submit pictures that unambiquously meet the challenge and do it at a high degree of technical excellence and you will achieve higher scores.
Message edited by author 2007-01-15 15:44:52.
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01/15/2007 04:22:40 PM · #17 |
| And make absolutely sure you don't mention your score anymore when you comment. Another lesson to be learned. |
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01/16/2007 01:58:03 AM · #18 |
The debate goes on, and on...
Do you take pictures for yourself, or for DPC?
Are you an artist, or a commercial sell-out?
Is this a learning site, or an art site?
I thought this photo was good enough that I came into the forums to find an "underrated" thread for this challenge, so I could post this photo.
Honestly, I was a little upset when I read that it was an outtake from a model shoot, but then I got over that... in the end it isn't what the photographer was trying to say, but what the viewer says.
I love this picture. I think it fits the challenge 10000000000 %. No it's not pretty. No it's not oversaturated. No, it's not obvious. It is great. It is powerful. It says what I feel.
Congratulations to the photographer. You moved a viewer. I think that's worth more than 52 virtual ribbons. |
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01/16/2007 02:09:16 AM · #19 |
Originally posted by albc28:
The challenge description was: "Show us something that you have been procrastining all year." (not to be confused with "show us procrastination") |
Here's your mistake. Whenever you read the word "you" in the challenge title or descrption you MUST ignore it because it doesn't apply. Unfortunately voters ignored personal interpretations even when the challenges calls for it. It would make much more sense if the challenge description was worded as "Show us something that people typically procrastinate all year" because that's how the voters interpreted it.
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01/17/2007 02:14:42 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by albc28:
How does this meet the challenge? The thing I procrastinated doing all year was talking to that dream girl (hence the title "how do I say....hello?"). Almost every guy has that a girl that they never talked to because they were too nervous or too scared. And you'd never know if you ever had the chance unless you actually sucked it up and said "hello". |
Hi Anthony,
I was one of the "I don't get it" people.
And I *really* tried!
I think that's one of the worst responses you can leave that's honest because it means that you missed the mark entirely.....at least you did for me.
I gave it a 4 based on sympathy and frustration, because I knew the answer was there, I just couldn't see it.
One of the specific issues there for me is that I have always had no problem walking up to a beautiful woman and introducing myself, complimenting her in some manner, or offering assistance.....whatever I can do in a respectful manner to make her a part of my life.
So....without you spelling it out for me, the innuendo of the title was entirely lost on me.
Look at my last two entries for scale.....one came out okay, one was the weirdest thing I could have imagined.
I agonized over my Procrastination title for a long time, and the entry was somewhat title driven, and the B&W entry was simple and tongue in cheek.
But boy did my vision of a B&W Portrait stray WAAAAAAAY far afield according to the voters.
I was going for Out Of The Box and I got out of the park.
One good thing about this whole exercise......we learn things the hard way like this and we NEVER make the same mistake.....EVER!!!!!
Take a look at my learning curve over the past week.....
 
Message edited by author 2007-01-17 02:15:25.
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01/17/2007 02:19:22 AM · #21 |
| Both photos simply RAWK, Jeb. Sorry ... I am not trying to hijack the thread but I couldn't resist saying that. |
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01/17/2007 07:47:52 AM · #22 |
Livitup - At first I was really disappointed with the score and all the I don't get it comments. When you and klstover left comments explaining what you saw and i realized that a couple of people got it....it made me happier about the photo and made score not become a big issue to me.
Sorry to disappoint you about where it came from though..haha. I find it easier to get creative photos for challenges, when i'm not shooting for the challenge. My personal best score was this photo from the patterns challenge.
I wasn't even shooting for the challenge, i was actually out scouting locations for a model shoot in CA and saw the flower and just decided to shoot a couple of photos of it. It wasn't until I got home that I realized it fit the patterns challenge. My better scores (which aren't many) are when i'm not trying..my lowest are when I am trying.. :-( |
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01/17/2007 07:52:56 AM · #23 |
| I think a lot of people don't read or forget the challenge description before they vote. It's too bad, but that's the way it is. |
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