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01/11/2007 04:52:45 PM · #1

Does anyone feel strongly about how scores are assigned? I figure that in general it doesn't matter so long as an individual scorer is consistent, but I thought I would lay out my approach and see what others think. I start "in the middle" at 5 and then images can either earn or lose points from there. So, for example, in the current B&W Portrait challenge, if a submission is actually in B&W & contains a portrait, then it automatically starts at a five. Then I give it (or take away) points for composition, technical execution and "feeling"...this allows me to lump all the "average" stuff at 5 (which I consider average) and to greatly differentiate the stuff at either extreme. Personally, I also find that it's easy to get bumped +/-1 to 4 or 6, but much harder to go the additional steps. Thus, an 8 is nearly as high as I ever get.....

Sound reasonable?
-Tom
01/11/2007 04:59:23 PM · #2
I rate images on a scale of 1 to 10 where 1 is very bad and 10 is very good.
01/11/2007 05:40:33 PM · #3
Giving an 8 as your highest score doesn't sound reasonable to me, sorry. I give out many ten's, some photos are just perfect.
01/11/2007 05:45:29 PM · #4
Somebody once said a while back that they put the names of all the entries on little pieces of paper, then threw the papers down a set of steps (10 steps), then scored the images according to which step they fell on. I always thought that was just the funniest answer to one of these "how do you score" threads.

If this is a hijack, it's over!
01/11/2007 05:45:46 PM · #5
when i vote i try to give scores towards 10s (i give many tens), but if it is DNMC then it could be 1,2,3, or 4 (depending upon how much dnmc it is).

For example if it is portrait challenge and you enter a very beautiful landscape, from me it will get 1 (because we work hard to meet the challenge).
01/11/2007 05:49:50 PM · #6
Originally posted by KarenNfld:

Giving an 8 as your highest score doesn't sound reasonable to me, sorry. I give out many ten's, some photos are just perfect.

01/11/2007 05:54:21 PM · #7
Everybody has their own "method" of scoring shots - one of the reasons an average works so well. ;-)

I go through all the images once, putting them into "buckets" of awful to below average (3-4), average (5), good (6), very good to excellent (7-8), WOW (9-10). Then I go back and view them again, adjusting them up and/or down depending on my second impression. I try to take into account the technical aspects of the shot, editing, presentation, how & what (if anything) the image made me feel, and then if it "WOWed" me.

I don't have an absolute set standard that I follow religiously, but I think I'm pretty consistent. I almost always give a few 10s, more 9s, more 8s, etc. with the most falling in the 5-6 range. Rarely do I give anything below a 3.
01/11/2007 05:58:24 PM · #8
Everyone has their own scale and as long as it's consistent I don't much care what it is.

However, since you asked:
For me it depends on whether or not I think the entry meets the challenge. A yes is treated on a different scale than a no.

For a DNMC image, if it's otherwise good I'll give it a 4, and this is the absolute highest score I will give to a DNMC entry. If the theme is Boats and you submit a picture of a cow, then even if it's the most brilliant photo of a cow the world has ever seen, I will still rate it a 4 - if we were to ignore the theme in scoring, then every challenge would be a free study and the theme would be moot. Part of the challenge is coming up with something to fit the theme, after all. Moving on, if a DNMC is merely okay, I'll give it a 3. If it's DNMC and has obvious technical and/or compositional issues, I'll give it a 3. A score of 1 is reserved for anything that's disgusting, morally or visually, or that in general makes me think "WTF?"

If you meet the challenge (and I'm actually rather lenient on this), the scale starts at 4, for an image that has serious technical/compositional issues. A 5 is an image that is merely okay. There are lots and lots of these for me, which accounts for my "below average" average score given (I've caught flak for my 5.3 avg before). A 6 is generally a photo for which a little skill is shown, but the concept needs work. A 7 is starting to get there, either technically solid with zero wow or lots of wow but with minor technical issues. An 8 is a photo I think is fantastic and want to see again in round two - kinda like the Hollywood Round in American Idol.

For round two, I review the 8's. Those that stand out from the 8's get bumped to 9. A score of 10 is reserved for personal favorites, and there may be lots and there may be none.
01/11/2007 06:00:21 PM · #9
I've searched the archives for an answer to this scoring question but can't find one. So here goes.

If you don't give someone any score, does it count as a zero, or not count at all ?

For example if only one person voted on your picture and gave it a 10 and everyone else ignored it what would your final score be? Would you be the outright winner as your average would be a perfect 10 ?

Does a low vote help a picture more than a 'no' vote ?

How is the final score calculated ?

I need to sit down now - I'm all confused . .
01/11/2007 06:00:36 PM · #10
Originally posted by SJCarter:

Everybody has their own "method" of scoring shots - one of the reasons an average works so well. ;-)

I go through all the images once, putting them into "buckets" of awful to below average (3-4), average (5), good (6), very good to excellent (7-8), WOW (9-10). Then I go back and view them again, adjusting them up and/or down depending on my second impression. I try to take into account the technical aspects of the shot, editing, presentation, how & what (if anything) the image made me feel, and then if it "WOWed" me.

I don't have an absolute set standard that I follow religiously, but I think I'm pretty consistent. I almost always give a few 10s, more 9s, more 8s, etc. with the most falling in the 5-6 range. Rarely do I give anything below a 3.


yes, what he says. but he says it better then I could ever do.

;)
01/11/2007 06:04:59 PM · #11
In college it was pretty tough, but now that I'm married, it's not nearly as difficult.
01/11/2007 06:06:09 PM · #12
Originally posted by Jedusi:

I've searched the archives for an answer to this scoring question but can't find one. So here goes.

If you don't give someone any score, does it count as a zero, or not count at all ?

For example if only one person voted on your picture and gave it a 10 and everyone else ignored it what would your final score be? Would you be the outright winner as your average would be a perfect 10 ?

Does a low vote help a picture more than a 'no' vote ?

How is the final score calculated ?

I need to sit down now - I'm all confused . .


No, if you don't vote, then it's just ignored. Only votes assigned are used to calculate the final average. Not all images get the same amount of votes, and challenges have different numbers of people voting. But it seems that (at least of late) most challenges entries end up with 200 - 250 votes.

For your example, yes, you're right, if only one person voted on your image and it was a 10, you'd end up with a 10 final score. If two people voted, one a 10, the other a 1, you'd end up with a 5.5. Something like this is not likely to happen though.

Message edited by author 2007-01-11 18:09:34.
01/11/2007 06:10:28 PM · #13
i'd say 85% of my votes are 4-6. 10% are 1-3, and 4.9% are 7-9. I can't remember the last time I gave a 10.

Message edited by author 2007-01-11 18:15:46.
01/11/2007 06:10:43 PM · #14
Thanks Ursula.
So if you skip over photo's that you think are 'poor' (or flawed perhaps),you could effectively be helping their scoring more than if you give it a low mark?

so giving a low mark is more detrimental than not scoring at all. Is that right ?

Aah ! you out edited me while I was typing :)

Message edited by author 2007-01-11 18:12:56.
01/11/2007 06:14:36 PM · #15
Originally posted by Jedusi:

Thanks Ursula.
So if you skip over photo's that you think are 'poor' (or flawed perhaps),you could effectively be helping their scoring more than if you give it a low mark?

so giving a low mark is more detrimental than not scoring at all. Is that right ?


Correct.

However, remember that the "good" way to vote is to try and score images as they come up (they come up in different random order for different users). If you feel you can't vote on an image then it's OK to skip over it and not vote on it (click on the "next" arrow to advance to the next image). But, "cherry-picking", or picking images from the little thumbnails and voting on only some of them, even though it can't be forbidden, is not a fair way to vote.

There's a similar issue, image sharing. It's never been forbidden (or against the rules) to share images before/during a challenge. What is against the rules is to vote higher on your friend's images, or contact users before/during a challenge to maybe influence them to give you a higher vote. Also, voting good images a very low score in an attempt to lower their average (and thus possibly making your own image get a higher overall standing), is against the rules.

Message edited by author 2007-01-11 18:18:10.
01/11/2007 06:19:30 PM · #16
I'd have to agree with Ursula. Not only is it not fair but the people who really need the help and constructive criticism, even its just number, don't get it. If I don't find out I'm doing something wrong, I'll just keep doing it until I'm told otherwise.

I've been on other sites where the only feedback you get is "nice" and on a scale of 1 to 5 every vote is a 5 or no vote at all. Hence I am here and have ponied up the dough for my membership.
01/11/2007 06:21:06 PM · #17
Originally posted by ursula:

Originally posted by Jedusi:

Thanks Ursula.
So if you skip over photo's that you think are 'poor' (or flawed perhaps),you could effectively be helping their scoring more than if you give it a low mark?

so giving a low mark is more detrimental than not scoring at all. Is that right ?


Correct.

However, remember that the "good" way to vote is to try and score images as they come up (they come up in different random order for different users). If you feel you can't vote on an image then it's OK to skip over it and not vote on it (click on the "next" arrow to advance to the next image). But, "cherry-picking", or picking images from the little thumbnails and voting on only some of them, even though it can't be forbidden, is not a fair way to vote.


Absolutely right, and please don't misunderstand.I'm not trying to be harsh on anyone. I sit and arrow through all the pictures each challenge. What I haven't understood until now was the impact of actually casting a vote or not. If anything I was trying to help some of the lower quality photo's not not giving them a mark, rather than a low mark. So I guess in a round about way I achieved my aim - but maybe for the wrong reasons :)
01/11/2007 06:23:56 PM · #18
Originally posted by Jedusi:

Originally posted by ursula:

Originally posted by Jedusi:

Thanks Ursula.
So if you skip over photo's that you think are 'poor' (or flawed perhaps),you could effectively be helping their scoring more than if you give it a low mark?

so giving a low mark is more detrimental than not scoring at all. Is that right ?


Correct.

However, remember that the "good" way to vote is to try and score images as they come up (they come up in different random order for different users). If you feel you can't vote on an image then it's OK to skip over it and not vote on it (click on the "next" arrow to advance to the next image). But, "cherry-picking", or picking images from the little thumbnails and voting on only some of them, even though it can't be forbidden, is not a fair way to vote.


Absolutely right, and please don't misunderstand.I'm not trying to be harsh on anyone. I sit and arrow through all the pictures each challenge. What I haven't understood until now was the impact of actually casting a vote or not. If anything I was trying to help some of the lower quality photo's not not giving them a mark, rather than a low mark. So I guess in a round about way I achieved my aim - but maybe for the wrong reasons :)


Don't worry, I didn't think you were "cherry-picking" or anything like that. I understood your questions for what they were.

However, I did think it was a good time to remind everyone of the other stuff. He, he, old habits die hard; I used to be on Site Council, you know :)

Message edited by author 2007-01-11 18:26:47.
01/11/2007 06:23:57 PM · #19
I use a rough mental guide awarding up to 2 points each for: meeting the challenge, originality, technical execution, composition and bonus points for how much impact the photo has on me. That way even a photo that DNMC IM(H)O can score reasonably well on my scale.
Then when I've gone through all the pics, I bucket out the top 20- usually 3 tens (my ribbon choices), 7 nines and ten 8's, but I keep that arrangement pretty loose depending on the general quality of the entries. If there are lots of good ones, there might be more tens and lots of 8s and 9s. If there aren't so many good ones, I'll only have say one 10 as a clear winner.
I don't usually have DNMC shots in my top 5-10 though.

Anyway, as for this:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

In college it was pretty tough, but now that I'm married, it's not nearly as difficult.

Doc, with your mad good photo skills, I'm sure you always had a bevy of good-looking models hanging around...
01/11/2007 06:29:15 PM · #20
When I first began at DPC, I gave out scores from One to Ten depending on the picture. Somewhere along the way I realized that no one ever deserves a 1, 2 or 3 on this web site. (My only contradiction here is if the pic is utterly vile and offensive [to me] which would cause a lower score, but even so. I now tend to skip pictures of that nature). I arrived at that notion after some great introspection. First, I noticed that I would get angry at low scores put on my entry in a challenge so I would over compensate and adjust my scoring down for others in that challenge. Yes, I confess to having been a scoring JERK. When I finally saw the light and realized that scores are fun but do not matter, and that I was really here to learn and to have some structure in my hobby, I became a better citizen of the site. Now my scoring is as follows: "excellent in most every way":10. through "really not very good, needs work": 5. Although I do not vote as often as I should I cannot remember the last time I gave a score less than 5.
The other thing that really riled me and contributed to my high scoring was to balance out the unrealistic voting of "The experts". You know who you are. The ones that win lots of ribbons who give out 7, 8, 9 and 10 scores like they were winning lottery tickets, and feel fine giving out 3,4,5 like they were congressional pay raises. It seems to me that if I were winning ribbons left and right, I would throw the masses a bone once in a while. Give 'em some hope. Keep 'em in the game. Its like when you are winning at poker- you don't mind buying the beer and chips; what the heck! Recently a big ribbon winner exclaimed to someone that he rated the picture a "7", and "I do not give many of those"! Doesn't he know that there are plenty to go around? Is he really the only one worthy of such a lofty score?
So my advice to newbies: be free, be just, spread the joy. Give big scores, especially when you give bad comments! Like, "The composition is wierd and the perspective is bad and I hate the colors but I can see that this picture has potential. Keep working at it Good Luck 8". It did not cost you a dime and it makes up for the black hearts that make Scrooge look generous. I hope you have enjoyed my rant. Please excuse my holier than thou attitude; it comes naturally.

Message edited by author 2007-01-11 18:32:58.
01/11/2007 06:43:30 PM · #21
Originally posted by jrjr:

When I first began at DPC, I gave out scores from One to Ten depending on the picture. Somewhere along the way I realized that no one ever deserves a 1, 2 or 3 on this web site.


I figure that there's a 1-10 range, and therefore we are meant to use it. Voting on a truncated scale doesn't allow for much nuance between the numbers. It just means that 5 in your world is 1. Or maybe 1 and 2, since there isn't as much room for degrees. While the big scores and gushing praise are nice, it's not why most of us are here.

Message edited by author 2007-01-11 18:45:24.
01/11/2007 06:56:56 PM · #22
Originally posted by karmabreeze:

Originally posted by jrjr:

When I first began at DPC, I gave out scores from One to Ten depending on the picture. Somewhere along the way I realized that no one ever deserves a 1, 2 or 3 on this web site.


I figure that there's a 1-10 range, and therefore we are meant to use it. Voting on a truncated scale doesn't allow for much nuance between the numbers. It just means that 5 in your world is 1. Or maybe 1 and 2, since there isn't as much room for degrees. While the big scores and gushing praise are nice, it's not why most of us are here.


But you don't use it for non-DNMC entries if I read your earlier post correctly. Is there really a difference here?
01/11/2007 06:57:27 PM · #23
Originally posted by jrjr:

... Now my scoring is as follows: "excellent in most every way":10. through "really not very good, needs work": 5. Although I do not vote as often as I should I cannot remember the last time I gave a score less than 5.
The other thing that really riled me and contributed to my high scoring ...

Your voting stats don't quite back up your post, Jim!
Votes Cast: 15944
Avg Vote Cast: 5.4390
01/11/2007 07:01:17 PM · #24
Originally posted by SaraR:

Originally posted by jrjr:

... Now my scoring is as follows: "excellent in most every way":10. through "really not very good, needs work": 5. Although I do not vote as often as I should I cannot remember the last time I gave a score less than 5.
The other thing that really riled me and contributed to my high scoring ...

Your voting stats don't quite back up your post, Jim!
Votes Cast: 15944
Avg Vote Cast: 5.4390


Didn't he say in that same post that he voted more harshly in the past but now he votes differently (i.e. higher)? Seems to me that average would reflect what he's saying.

Message edited by author 2007-01-11 19:01:37.
01/11/2007 07:04:52 PM · #25
Originally posted by tstout:

How do you score?


I ask a lot and occasionally I get lucky.
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