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10/29/2003 10:58:15 AM · #1 |
Last week I stated in a thread that I felt that if you enter something in a challenge you should be obligated to vote for every submission in that challenge. Well I have changed my mind. After seeing the official results of my last submission I would like to say that if you are giving ones out just because you don't like the content of the image, don't vote. I thought only if you didn't meet the challenge or if the image just plain sucked you got ones. But if you meet the challenge, composition is good, and the lighting was done alright, I figured you wouldn't get a one. Granted I know it has a couple of hot spots, but does that mean it deserves a one. If you give it a one for some other reason than you don't like the content, leave some feedback. I thought that the people on this site voted on more than just content. What about the actual photography components in a image? After all this is a photography contest.
Anyway, thanks for letting me vent, and don't get me wrong, I don't feel that my image should have placed with all of the wonderful images in this particular contest, but I don't feel it deserved 20 ones.
Oh yeah, here is the image.
Message edited by author 2003-10-29 12:17:26. |
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10/29/2003 11:07:21 AM · #2 |
This looks like more of a case of subject matter, than technical issues. The picture technically to me is good, I like the composition, and the subject matter doesnt raise any feathers with me. My best guess is the subject matter may have offended some people who may have voted it down or they somehow felt it didnt meet their definition of alone.
Happens all the time here, people will vote down on subject matter alone Im afraid.
Message edited by author 2003-10-29 11:07:54.
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10/29/2003 11:13:35 AM · #3 |
| I know, I just wish they wouldn't vote then. And if the content just looks overall boring and nothing to it, then let me know so I can have an understanding as to why you vote low. |
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10/29/2003 11:25:18 AM · #4 |
you said you knew this would be a controversial image when you submitted it. i thought it worked well, but i'm not surprised some people didn't and said as much in their votes.
you knew what you were getting into. and you did pretty well anyway - look at all the 10s. i guess if you're willing to push people's buttons you should expect to have your buttons pushed back in return a few time.
darcy |
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10/29/2003 11:25:29 AM · #5 |
| They could always try the old college curve. |
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10/29/2003 11:28:15 AM · #6 |
Darcy, I guess you are right, but in saying that it was controversial I still did't think I would get such low scores just because of the content. But in any case I will quit my bitching and just accept it. Sorry for getting so hot headed.
Message edited by author 2003-10-29 11:29:42. |
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10/29/2003 11:37:28 AM · #7 |
Suicide to me doesn't mean "alone" maybe desperation, dispair, sadness. I gave the shot a "6" because I wasn't felling the "alone" ness of the shot. Otherwise the shot is pretty good. Nice composition.
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10/29/2003 11:43:32 AM · #8 |
I don't think suicide means alone, I just have known a few people who have taken their lives because they felt that they were all alone in this world and had nothing else to live for. But in your case, you voted on more than just the content and that was all I was whining about in the first place. So to you I say thank you for taking other aspects into your voting.
Message edited by author 2003-10-29 11:44:19. |
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10/29/2003 12:10:32 PM · #9 |
Some how missed that when I voted.
20 ones is just from the people whom like to belive that life is all roses, and don't like to see violence. Probably the same people that complain to the ITC if someone shouts fuck on TV.
I think the image is great in every way, and would have gotten a 9 or 10 from me easily.
Don't let it discourage you!
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10/29/2003 12:15:26 PM · #10 |
| Jonpink, I am not discouraged, just a little disapointed. But oh well, that is the way the cookie crumbles. |
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10/29/2003 12:24:18 PM · #11 |
If we're talking about the same photo (I couldn't find a link to it here), I believe I'm one who voted low.
I do consider both choice of subject and manner of treatment vital, but there are, really, no aspects of a photo I'd (consciously) dismiss. While I tend to welcome controversial pieces and those with a commotive quality, credibility would be the criterium I'd feel compelled to look for prior to be being able to arrive at an aesthetical sense and, thus, evaluation. This is a very sensitive and taxing position for a voter or viewer even, but one, undoubtedly, provoked by the nature of the image itself. The difficulty, to me, lies with my speculation, that ethics and aesthetics relate on a sensory level (pointing a potentially lengthy debate beyond this forum).
The credibility of this particular photo (if in fact I'm thinking of the same one you are) was, although well supported by visual evidence and technical capacity (IMHO), not sufficiently established to cause one voter to rate it highly. The gap (I perceived) between a given reality and a suggested one just remained too great to be convincing, which lead to an interpretation quite different from one in consideration of the human reality the photographer may have intended to allude to. |
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10/29/2003 12:35:14 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by G4Ds:
I know, I just wish they wouldn't vote then. |
Hate to be harsh about this, but:
1) you are right. People probably voted this low because of the subject matter
2) you are whining. People won't change their opinion because of it.
#1 is an unfortunate side-effect of today's society. Anything that isn't bland is hated or loved, and you seem to have touched a nerve. Myself, I would probably have given it more than an 8. Technically it is good, and it fits my opinion of the challenge.
#2 is an unfortunate side-effect of today's society. People won't agree with you. Deal with it.
edit: You got 20 1's, but 18 10's. Dude, I can't remember having gotten that many 10s on any of the challenges I've entered!
HJ
Message edited by author 2003-10-29 12:37:19.
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10/29/2003 12:43:23 PM · #13 |
| Man, I need to go back to school. I think I know what you are trying to say zeuszen, but just to many big words for me to follow exactly what you are trying to say(no offense to the well educated). I have added a link in my original post if you read this again, you can check out the image. And I don't care if you vote low(imo 3's and 4's being low)but it is the 1's that get to me. I know they shouldn't, everybody is entitled to their opinion. |
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10/29/2003 12:47:03 PM · #14 |
SharQ, just to point out that I have already stated that I am whining like a little baby, but sometimes it is just to fun. Also I am not trying to change other peoples opinions, I would just rather they not vote if the content is the only thing that is going to sway them to vote 1.
Your image  got 23 10's :) I personally like your work and am suprised it doesn't do better.
Message edited by author 2003-10-29 12:52:30. |
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10/29/2003 12:56:25 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by G4Ds:
But if you meet the challenge, composition is good, and the lighting was done alright, I figured you wouldn't get a one. |
Maybe if you feel you have done all of these well and you are still getting a large number of ones, you can consider the fact that you've created a photo with subject matter to which people react strongly. Unfortunately, at DPC, this is something you are in effect "punished" for because ones will have a negative impact on your score but outside the realm of contests, creating photos that cause a strong reaction, either negative or positive, is something that a lot of people strive for. |
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10/29/2003 01:15:56 PM · #16 |
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10/29/2003 01:18:09 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by G4Ds:
Man, I need to go back to school. I think I know what you are trying to say zeuszen, but just to many big words for me to follow exactly what you are trying to say(no offense to the well educated). I have added a link in my original post if you read this again, you can check out the image.... |
It is not the entry I was thinking of, Nick. My posted comments still hold true, I think, although perhaps not to the same degree. I'm sorry, if I lost you, but what I was trying to say, was that there are images and there is the 'real thing' (a subject). When the image is as dramatically 'human' or 'inhuman' or 'tragic', we would, perhaps, want to simply 'believe' it, without having to 'waste' any feeling on whether something 'works', technically, compositionally or otherwise (external to the subject itself).
In other words, I would expect so much more from a shot like this than, say, from a macro of a rose petal. A photograph questioning the very meaning of life should be (IMO) so accomplished on all counts, that it evokes a 'feeling' so strong, that all thinking is disabled, at least long enough to get a 'sense'. How to do this, I cannot tell you. I'm just not that good, but as a viewer and a human being, that's how I feel.
I hope this is a little clearer. ;-)
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10/29/2003 01:21:50 PM · #18 |
| G4Ds, don't be upset because of your results on All Alone. It's really hard to find out what would all those different people like, what's the common point among their thoughts. Your shot Alone no more is shocking, some may not like it. I would be also very happy if as many people would comment on my shots as possible, because I think comments are more useful. I have learned a lot here during these 2-3 challenges. Back to your shot, I liked it a much and gave you 8, although it's not my vision of loneliness. But composition, technics were very good, only thing that's why not 10 or 9 was that I didn't have the unique that's it feeling, and maybe I wouldn't have understood it without the title. That's all. But some think if a subject is different than their "deam alone shot", that also means for them, that it is not good. Sorrily. But these are deep and basic features of the human soul. You cannot change it, and you also didn't deserve that ones, twos, threes in my opinion. |
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10/29/2003 01:23:09 PM · #19 |
| Yes, I do understand what you are saying. Thank you zeuszen for the thoughtful insight. |
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10/29/2003 01:46:13 PM · #20 |
| Anyway, so much 1s and 10s mean that you had a strong effect on ppl. Negative and positive as well, but a strong effect! But I only can say, don't be disappointed. Try to stay close to your thoughts, or try to find out what most ppl like (sometimes these two differs a lot). This second one is difficult. Me, I do quite average shots. A few 1s, a few 10s, and a lot of 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Maybe I would like to have a stronger effect on people, no matter what kind. |
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10/29/2003 01:52:05 PM · #21 |
| Thank you vadvirag for your insight and comments as well. |
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10/29/2003 02:11:29 PM · #22 |
I'll start off my saying that I gave your image an 8.
I too am dismayed by the number of 1's given to high quality photographs. The only logical conclusion that I can come to is that people are voting on content rather than the photograph's quality and ability to communicate. I have also started to notice more complaints about content in forum posts and even some recommendations that images be removed because they are of a "disturbing nature", and this worries me. If an individual is going to be involved in art, they need to open themselves to the interpretations and opinions of others, even if they don't always agree with those opinions. If someone is going play here, they need to commit themselves to voting based on photographic quality and ability to communicate. This is just my opinion...
Take pride in your 1's because they were not about the quality of your photography! |
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10/29/2003 02:25:26 PM · #23 |
I like what zeuszen said about credibility...I did not find the photo credible, but technically better than a 1 for sure. I guess I have only ever given 1 (maybe 2) ones...where I differ is that I do think that I can be open to the image and the technical perfection and have strong feelings about content that I am free to express - I exprss them verbally, however. I have strong feelings about the exploitation of women, having worked in the field of addictions and pysch for a longish time I have strong feelings about suicide and what it looks like. I express those feelings in the comment section mostly and try to give a number that reflects my opinion of the photograph. I tend to keep a 10 for something I would hang on my wall (if there were any room) but if a fine image appears on a challenge that has content that is disturbing or exploitive I try not to reflect the content over the quality of the image and make a verbal statemnt if I need to.
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10/29/2003 02:41:58 PM · #24 |
| To amsmyth and nusbaum, Thank you both for your insight and comments. If anything it is great to just finally get some input on the image. Thank you to all who have participated in this thread. |
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10/29/2003 03:30:01 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by vadvirag:
Anyway, so much 1s and 10s mean that you had a strong effect on ppl. Negative and positive as well, but a strong effect! But I only can say, don't be disappointed. Try to stay close to your thoughts, or try to find out what most ppl like (sometimes these two differs a lot). This second one is difficult. Me, I do quite average shots. A few 1s, a few 10s, and a lot of 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. Maybe I would like to have a stronger effect on people, no matter what kind. |
A bunch of ones (for content) and tens is possibly the best indicator of a "successful" photo.
I shoot a lot of mid-four shots too. This week, it looks like I've evoked more reaction (negative) than typical for me ... |
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