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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> "Over sharpened"
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05/10/2002 11:20:56 AM · #1
In the vein of a similar posting...

Folks, if something looks over sharpened there are basically two possibilities: it IS over sharpened, or it's a shot from a lower end camera.

I know that you can't tell without knowing what kind of camera made the shot, but I tend to assume that people who submit wouldn't purposefully submit an over sharpened photo. Thus I place them in the lower end camera realm and I vote and comment accordingly. While I don't know how people are voting on my stuff specifically, I do wish people would make the same assumption of my work when they commented. *grin*
05/10/2002 11:33:06 AM · #2
I'm finding it hard to write good comments without knowing anything about the camera being used. For example, I see some photos with what is to me an unacceptable level of noise. Maybe they have a lower-end camera, and itís the best they can do. Maybe the shot isnít properly lit. Maybe they are running a darker monitor, and they donít see the noise when they look at the shot. Do I mention it in the hopes that they hadnít noticed it and can now watch for it when they shoot, or do I assume that there isnít anything they could have done differently?

Adding the camera model to the voting page wouldnít help, since Iím not familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of different models, so I donít have any ideas how to improve my comments.
05/10/2002 11:36:06 AM · #3
Hm. Well, if it was on the voting page, one could easily look it up on www.dpreview.com or similar site. We'd all end up learning about all the different camera models! : )
05/10/2002 11:48:57 AM · #4
I dunno... in my experience there is a difference in the look of low resolution vs. oversharpening, and I think I can tell them apart. I like to mention it when (I think) I see it because using Unsharp Mask can be a pretty complex operation, and getting feedback on how it looks to others has been very useful to me in the past. Unless your camera is very low end, it ought to be capable of a pretty good image at 640X480.

Regarding listing cameras with the images, it would probably compromise the anonymity of people with less popluar cameras. I think listing the exposure settings would be a lot more useful. All of us work with the gear we've got, but the settings show what decisions the photog made. I do read a lot of N/A in the aperture and shutter speed fields in the challenge results, so I guess not all cameras give you that data, but it would be helpful to know if someone was not able to control settings, too.
05/10/2002 11:56:05 AM · #5
Originally posted by irae:
I think listing the exposure settings would be a lot more useful. All of us work with the gear we've got, but the settings show what decisions the photog made. I do read a lot of N/A in the aperture and shutter speed fields in the challenge results, so I guess not all cameras give you that data, but it would be helpful to know if someone was not able to control settings, too.


Listing the exposure settings would be useful...if you see that the aperture is f3.6, then probably getting less depth of field would not be possible. However, just because a camera records these settings doesn't mean that the photographer can necessarily control them, as is the case with my camera.
05/10/2002 11:59:51 AM · #6
Originally posted by Amphian:
I'm finding it hard to write good comments without knowing anything about the camera being used. For example, I see some photos with what is to me an unacceptable level of noise. Maybe they have a lower-end camera, and itís the best they can do. Maybe the shot isnít properly lit. Maybe they are running a darker monitor, and they donít see the noise when they look at the shot. Do I mention it in the hopes that they hadnít noticed it and can now watch for it when they shoot, or do I assume that there isnít anything they could have done differently?

Adding the camera model to the voting page wouldnít help, since Iím not familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of different models, so I donít have any ideas how to improve my comments.


Your thread here is making me rethink a lot of my own comments to others. I'm not as "camera wise" as I need to be. I have been using a "granddaddy Olympus, bought about 4 or 5 years ago. Now, I'm waiting for delivery of a new Olympus E-10 that I just bought for my husband's birthday. (It's just what I wanted!:0) Any ideas on this camera? I see some of you have this model, also.
05/10/2002 12:08:37 PM · #7
The E-10 ..

Definitely does not reward point and shoot - in fact, may get WORSE results than a point and shoot when used thusly.

Does reward time spent learning its quirks.

Is capable of taking amazingly nice pictures in capable hands.

Has almost all the control you could ever want.

Here's the review of it from dpreview.com:

//www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse10/

What else would you like to know?

* This message has been edited by the author on 5/10/2002 12:09:58 PM.
05/10/2002 12:13:52 PM · #8
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
The E-10 ..

Definitely does not reward point and shoot - in fact, may get WORSE results than a point and shoot when used thusly.

Does reward time spent learning its quirks.

Is capable of taking amazingly nice pictures in capable hands.

Has almost all the control you could ever want.

Here's the review of it from dpreview.com:

//www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse10/

What else would you like to know?


Well, I hope my husband likes it then! Do they make a "Brownie Box" Digital Camera for me?!?
05/10/2002 12:17:48 PM · #9
definitely! lots of em! :D

but let me ask you a question: if it's just what you wanted, why did you get it for your husband???

Originally posted by sandip:
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
Well, I hope my husband likes it then! Do they make a "Brownie Box" Digital Camera for me?!?


05/10/2002 12:21:43 PM · #10
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
definitely! lots of em! :D

but let me ask you a question: if it's just what you wanted, why did you get it for your husband???

Originally posted by sandip:
[i]Originally posted by magnetic9999:
Well, I hope my husband likes it then! Do they make a "Brownie Box" Digital Camera for me?!?


[/i]

Because, he's going to have to teach me what all the whistles and bells do! I'm a real novice here!
05/10/2002 12:28:35 PM · #11
Originally posted by Kimbly:
Listing the exposure settings would be useful...if you see that the aperture is f3.6, then probably getting less depth of field would not be possible. However, just because a camera records these settings doesn't mean that the photographer can necessarily control them, as is the case with my camera.

Mine lets me control some of them, but it doesn't seem to record them. I didn't get anything useful in the EXIF data, but maybe I need something that looks for more EXIF info. (I used Photoshop Elements.)

My first submission was this week. I just dumped all the EXIF data in the details field, since I was afraid I would be disqualified for not knowing the settings asked for in the submission form. Iíd rather use the details field to provide more info about my photo. Is there any way to go back and edit that field?
05/10/2002 01:07:40 PM · #12
I too have had someone say that my photo looks over sharpened, though nothing was touched on it at all. I actually took the photo at a size of 2560x1920 and by the time I had to resize it to 640x480 it just appeared that way. I really didn't feel like touching it up so I submitted it anyway. I guess next time i'll just have to use a diffuser filter or something.....Also I haven't used an e-10 but I have a e-20, and I love it. It takes some getting used to, the only problem2 that I have had with it is shooting in low light in auto focus, and the built- in flash isn't as fool proof as they say. Otherwise than that, a great camera.....




* This message has been edited by the author on 5/10/2002 1:19:11 PM.
05/10/2002 01:16:12 PM · #13
that is great. is your husband a big photo buff? what does he currently shoot with? if he spends some time with his e-10, he'll definitely love it. i see a lot of people complain about the e-10 because as I said it doesn't really do it's best work as a pt and shoot, and alot of people don't really put the time into it. however, I find it to be a very useable and useful camera.

interesting thing about the e-series is that they dont have bells and whistles in the sense of recording sound and movies and doing sepia tones and stuff. basically it's a very sturdy, competent, down to basics, fully manually controllable digital SLR. ANd that's why I like it!

Gtnjiggy: what do you have your in-camera sharpening level set to? i set mine to soft, which i find works best for post-processing later in a photo editor. also, keep in mind one or 2 comments does not a fact make ;-) but i'm sure you knew that. lastly, I don't really like the way on-camera flash looks, as I wrote in this lighting tutorial, but I've never really had a problem with it not exposing the scene as it should.

Originally posted by sandip:
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
[i]definitely! lots of em! :D

but let me ask you a question: if it's just what you wanted, why did you get it for your husband???

Originally posted by sandip:
[i]Originally posted by magnetic9999:
Well, I hope my husband likes it then! Do they make a "Brownie Box" Digital Camera for me?!?


[/i]

Because, he's going to have to teach me what all the whistles and bells do! I'm a real novice here!
[/i]

* This message has been edited by the author on 5/10/2002 1:21:54 PM.
05/10/2002 01:25:07 PM · #14
I have my settings on normal, however for this photo I had it set to high, just because of the type of picture and the size that I wanted it, and the comment things, really don't bug me. I take pictures because I love it, and I'm getting better at it. Also, even Mr. Adams couldn't make everyone happy, lol.....
05/10/2002 01:33:40 PM · #15
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
[i]that is great. is your husband a big photo buff? what does he currently shoot with? if he spends some time with his e-10, he'll definitely love it. i see a lot of people complain about the e-10 because as I said it doesn't really do it's best work as a pt and shoot, and alot of people don't really put the time into it. however, I find it to be a very useable and useful camera.

interesting thing about the e-series is that they dont have bells and whistles in the sense of recording sound and movies and doing sepia tones and stuff. basically it's a very sturdy, competent, down to basics, fully manually controllable digital SLR. ANd that's why I like it!

From Sandip:


We have been using an Olympus D-320L, whick we've had since they first arrived on the market. It was time to up-date, by a long shot.

I actually beat my husband to the punch, by submitting a picture this week (borrowed one of my daughters' camera. I did it to tease and surprise my other daughter, who has entered several times. She is Digiteyes, and did "Invertigo" and "...And Justice For All..."



* This message has been edited by the author on 5/10/2002 1:35:11 PM.
05/10/2002 01:41:42 PM · #16
"Invertigo" was a really nice photo :)
05/10/2002 03:02:46 PM · #17
I think your kite picture rocked Patella. And I think a lot of people say 'oversharpened' as a critique often, because as bob gaither said, there is a trend to have to find something negative when critiquing, and sometimes, when a picture is great, you have to reach for something 'bad'.
05/10/2002 03:14:48 PM · #18
Hey SandiP? Did you order two?? I'll need hush money now!

jmseltzer: Thanks for the compliment on "INVERTIGO" It would have been a great photo for this challenge, but now I am stuck and can't come up with a "Non-cliche" idea. UGH!

* This message has been edited by the author on 5/10/2002 3:16:37 PM.
05/10/2002 03:23:02 PM · #19
i liked those pictures alot.

Well, I can't wait to see who's pics are what this week !


05/10/2002 03:39:24 PM · #20
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
i liked those pictures alot.

Well, I can't wait to see who's pics are what this week !




Me, too! I'm having as much fun as if I had good sense!
05/10/2002 03:46:04 PM · #21
You definitely have to get 'outside the box' on this one...


Originally posted by Digiteyes:
Hey SandiP? Did you order two?? I'll need hush money now!

jmseltzer: Thanks for the compliment on "INVERTIGO" It would have been a great photo for this challenge, but now I am stuck and can't come up with a "Non-cliche" idea. UGH


05/10/2002 04:37:21 PM · #22
My "box" has been taped shut this time. I am definately trying to get out!!! I had the BEST idea and hog-tied the kids together and got a PERFECT pic. Then discovered that when I changed the batteries in my camera the date changed to 1/1/99. Can you hear me screaming!!! I am hoping to recreate the photo on Saturday, but will have a relatives over....we will see. Good Luck everyone on your photos!! I love this site!
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