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DPChallenge Forums >> Individual Photograph Discussion >> What the &%#%*#) did I do wrong?
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10/28/2003 04:40:21 PM · #1
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/9411/thumb/44331.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/9411/thumb/44331.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

OK,, I was out trying to get some shots for grace and thought I had happened upon one of those really great moments..
Water lily, TWO different dragon flys wow,, great pics boy am I happy NOT!

They're all so grainy I can't use any of them. What the heck did I do wrong? I was using a polarizing filter, would it have made a difference to shoot at iso 50?

Camera Model Name
Canon PowerShot G3
Shooting Date/Time
10/28/2003 1:51:22 AM
Shooting Mode
Manual
Photo Effect Mode
Off
Tv( Shutter Speed )
1/320
Av( Aperture Value )
3.0
Metering Mode
Center-weighted averaging
ISO Speed
200
Lens
7.2 - 28.8 mm
Focal Length
28.8 mm
Digital Zoom
x 3.6
Image Size
2272x1704
Image Quality
Superfine
Flash
Off
White Balance
Daylight
10/28/2003 04:43:46 PM · #2
ISO 200 gives a fair amount of noise on the G3, and coupled with the digital zoom that you used, it will look even noisier, because it jus expands the pixels. That's your problem I think. It's best to turn digital zoom off, and crop later in photoshop.

Message edited by author 2003-10-28 16:44:42.
10/28/2003 04:44:09 PM · #3
The only thing I noticed is that digital zoom is at 3.6, which is quite high. Have you used the digital zoom that high on other photos?? If so did it produce less grain?

Other than that everything looks fine.
10/28/2003 04:46:50 PM · #4
..

Message edited by author 2003-10-28 16:47:26.
10/28/2003 04:47:49 PM · #5
I like the grain... I find the busy background elements very distracting though
10/28/2003 04:54:02 PM · #6
I think Konador is right. I would turn off the digital zoom and only use optical zoom. Your processing software can do a better job at 'zooming' than your camera can.

All a digital zoom does is the same thing your software does when you crop and enlarge. You aren't really zooming. Instead, the camera is just making the pixels larger and more visible--hence: grain.
10/28/2003 05:22:02 PM · #7
JC

I agree with the others on the Digital Zoom, I would avoid using this if at all possible.

Also I noticed "Image Quality Superfine" I'm not familar with your camera, but is this setting do any sharpening? I would leave any sharpening to be done on the computer.

10/28/2003 06:09:59 PM · #8
Thank you all.

Superfine does not sharpen, higher dpi

I usually shoot at iso50 and forgot to change, after being in a very low light area when I spotted this shot.

I've used the digital zoom before, but at iso 50 with studio lighting so I think with the proper conditions its ok..

I think this is then, a situation of wrong iso, too much zoom, and senile photographer! Put them all together and they spell C_ _ _P!!

I appreciate all the suggestions,, your all correct I figure.
10/28/2003 06:12:54 PM · #9
The combination of digital zoom and iso 200 probably produced the less than desirable results.

Turn the digital zoom off and always shoot at the lowest ISO possible.

10/28/2003 06:18:59 PM · #10
Try using Neat Image to clean up the noise. It's a really nice software package and they have a free demo. It really can work wonders on a noisy image. Of course, I'm not sure if it legal to use in the contests here. It does apply to the whole image, so if sharpening is allowed I don't see why an image wide filter such as this would not be.

You can find it here: //www.neatimage.com/

I tried it for the first time last night on a test image I had of a very noisy night shot of Pittsburgh and it really smoothed out the clouds.

Message edited by author 2003-10-28 18:20:34.
10/28/2003 06:19:56 PM · #11
Neatimage is allowed in challenges :)
10/28/2003 06:21:44 PM · #12
Strange - I normaly use high Iso levels - but it never comes so grainy.
It does become grainy but in low lighting conditions.
BTW i use a Cannon A40 - nothing fancy.
For example - for my 'all alone' submission - i used iso 400 in manual mode coz i wanted the grainy effect -which i thought was cool but not really appreciated by others .
Hmm... wondring about the digital zoom, well since im just a amature - i wouldnt knwo much but - hey - if it wasnt for the digital zoom you wouldnt have got that close - those little buggers fly for the slightest disturbance.
10/28/2003 06:40:12 PM · #13
That's just it, If had shot w/ just the camera zoom, it would have been so small that the details would have not been there, I was about 6 feet away.

Since this was in the middle of a koi pond, I couldn't get any closer.
grrrrrrrr,, oh to have a camera I can put lenses on!
10/28/2003 06:48:57 PM · #14
Originally posted by JC Homola:

That's just it, If had shot w/ just the camera zoom, it would have been so small that the details would have not been there, I was about 6 feet away.

Since this was in the middle of a koi pond, I couldn't get any closer.
grrrrrrrr,, oh to have a camera I can put lenses on!


I certainly agree that a tele adapter would have given a better result. As suggested above, the most conservative approach is to not use the digital zoom. You can always perform the same operation in software, but at that point you have much more control of the process, e.g. how to crop, how to upsample if required, etcetera.
10/28/2003 06:52:40 PM · #15
I've noticed that the dust and scratches filter in Photoshop has the same effect as neat image.
10/28/2003 06:59:04 PM · #16
Originally posted by JC Homola:

That's just it, If had shot w/ just the camera zoom, it would have been so small that the details would have not been there, I was about 6 feet away.

Since this was in the middle of a koi pond, I couldn't get any closer.
grrrrrrrr,, oh to have a camera I can put lenses on!


The digital zoom does not capture more detail. It simply upsamples the image that you already have optically. And, it does it poorly. If you have any photo processing software at all, you should never use digital zoom. The software will make it much, much better than your camera can. Digital zoom should always be off, in my opinion.
10/28/2003 07:05:47 PM · #17
OH!
damn, learned something new again.
It really doesn't "zoom" ???? it looks like it does

who knew.


off to experiment.
10/29/2003 12:17:14 PM · #18
Well - it does really zoom - in much the same way you could zoom in photoshop or eqivallent by cropping a rectangle out of the middle and doubling the side size of all the pixels.

The point is though you can always do this with more control in software,
so you shouldn't ever really use the digital zoom on a camera
10/29/2003 06:45:34 PM · #19
Originally posted by JC Homola:

That's just it, If had shot w/ just the camera zoom, it would have been so small that the details would have not been there, I was about 6 feet away.

Since this was in the middle of a koi pond, I couldn't get any closer.
grrrrrrrr,, oh to have a camera I can put lenses on!


Maybe getting the 2.4x teleconverter would help to get closer without using the digital zoom.
10/29/2003 08:52:31 PM · #20
Originally posted by shutterfly:

I've noticed that the dust and scratches filter in Photoshop has the same effect as neat image.


Dust and scratches filter will blur the image. Neat image maps the actual noise profile and eliminates noise without blurring (at least that's the idea). It can be used to blur, however.

10/29/2003 09:41:21 PM · #21
Using neatimage can do wonders to a photo

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10/29/2003 11:10:36 PM · #22
ahh, thank you.
I"ve got it on my holiday gift recieving list.

10/29/2003 11:26:50 PM · #23
JC,

i own the G3 - had it for about two weeks now. first thing i did after i turned it on for the first time was to make sure the digital zoom was off. if i could eliminate this option altogether i would.

and the G3 does allow for other lenses. you just need to buy an inexpesnive adapter ring. see that little button in the bottom right of the front of the camera next to the words "powershot G3"? that is what you press to remove the current lense.

i gotta say, i am loving this camera so far.

but i didn't know higher iso settings made for grainier images. i do find, though, that low lighting makes for higher noise values, which is a drag...
10/30/2003 12:10:15 AM · #24
1) Digital zoom as others point out is a no no
2) Neat image works wonders. Get the pro edition if you want to use it on layers or part of an image (but not for challenges)
3) Use RAW mode rather than jpeg for best results
10/30/2003 03:25:08 AM · #25
Originally posted by JC Homola:


I think this is then, a situation of wrong iso, too much zoom, and senile photographer! Put them all together and they spell C_ _ _P!!


CrisP ??

btw, I would never use more than ISO100 on a compact camera... they just can't do it acceptably.
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